Talk:Maia Kobabe

Pronouns

I don't understand why the article notes (correctly) that Kobabe uses Spivak pronouns (e/em/eir) but the article itself uses singular they. Acknowledging a person's pronoun preference and then immediately and conspicuously disregarding it seems wrong to me. D.Holt (talk) 22:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

It's important that Wikipedia isn't illegible to 99% of readers. Fig (talk) 21:00, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

The fact that Wiki uses any pronouns outside of he/she related means it won't make sense to anyone with common sense. 2600:8804:400:9E50:28DA:D1D7:B3AE:8C39 (talk) 02:57, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Please correct subject’s pronouns

The subject of this article uses Spivak pronouns, but the article uses they/them pronouns. 24.4.69.155 (talk) 03:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The MOS does not have guidance on using non-standard pronouns such as Spivak pronouns. —C.Fred (talk) 03:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I've avoided the issue by recasting the sentence with the subject's name. —C.Fred (talk) 03:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

That doesn't avoid the issue at all. Awkward use of a name in place of pronouns is something that happens to trans and nonbinary people frequently and is disrespectful because it demonstrates an unwillingness to use a person's correct pronouns. If the MOS has no guidance one way or the other, avoiding pronouns is not the "safer" stopgap option. Spivak pronouns should be used in the article. Autumn on Tape (talk) 19:51, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Hey, @Autumnontape, I'm sensitive to this issue, and I read through the article and am not finding awkard usage of name in place of pronouns. I'm totally willing to fix this with the Spivak pronouns, but to me on a quick read through it didn't look weird? Can you note which sentences are problematic? valereee (talk) 19:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Tamzin, who is experienced with this. valereee (talk) 20:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The fact that Kobabe's correct pronouns were removed in the first place is a bigger problem than how easy it is to tell they were removed, but the frequent use of eir name combined with the lack of any use of pronouns to refer to em is more than enough to make the evasiveness obvious to me. I personally would replace eir name with a pronoun in the second and last sentences of the "Life and career" section, but the version of the page before C.Fred's edits was also fine. Autumn on Tape (talk) 20:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I've asked for guidance at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Gender identity. —C.Fred (talk) 22:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This page currently uses Spivak pronouns incorrectly. For example in the personal life section it says "Eir is dyslexic and did not learn to read until age 11". The first word should be "E" not "Eir". There are a few other similar errors on this page Bkling12 (talk) 04:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

There was a recent discussion about this earlier on that supplement page. Most editors there were opposed to using neopronouns in article text. I support writing the article without pronouns, though our language already has pronouns that are neutral and/or non-binary in regards to gender - singular they/them/their. These would be fine to use, as I see no evidence our subject has objected to them. Neopronouns do not appear in dictionaries and are not a part of the standard language, and will hinder understanding by those unfamiliar with them (which is most readers, especially those who speak English as a second language). Crossroads ^-talk- 03:05, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The subject has made it clear in eir book "Gender queer : a memoir" that e felt uncomfortable with they/them pronouns, and wanted to be addressed with e/em/eir Spivak pronouns. Looking at the talk on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Gender identity, people seemed to have reached a consensus that we should use neopronouns if the subject doesn't use any other common pronouns (he/she/they), which is the case here. Can we replace a few of the many instances of the subject's name with eir actual pronouns? Lokenstein (they/them) | talk | contribs 17:15, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

this doesn't make sense tbh 98.37.197.117 (talk) 20:07, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on neopronouns at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography

As seen above and in recent edits, there's a lot of debate on neopronouns. There's currently a RfC at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography#Neopronouns RfC [moved] on this topic. @Valereee and Crossroads: I suggest not changing the pronouns on this article until the RfC determines the updated policy. Sariel Xilo (talk) 23:32, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2023

The third paragraph of the Life and Career section states "When asked why Kobabe wrote the book in a Time magazine interview, they said." Change "they" to "e" as Maia Kobabe uses Spivak pronouns - e/em/eir. Elijahonyx (talk) 20:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

@Elijahonyx: Unfortunately as the result of a recent RfC, the current policy per MOS:NEOPRONOUN is: If a person exclusively goes by neopronouns such as ze/hir, then the singular they should generally be used instead of neopronouns when referring to that individual, though their requested pronouns should usually be mentioned in their biography (such as in prose or in a footnote). Sariel Xilo (talk) 21:56, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

To add to article

To add to this article (in order to help make it more properly encyclopedic): information about Maia Kobabe's family background, ethnic heritage, and early life. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)