Talk:Malaysian Malay

Official language

Why does this article state this is not an official language anywhere when the Malaysian article states it is an official language of Malaysia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.85.121.208 (talk) 06:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. --Joshua ^{Say "hi" to me!}_{What I've done?} 10:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Jawi

I disagree that Jawi should be used in this article. The Rumi script (Latin alphabet) is the official script used by the federal government of Malaysia. While this official status does not preclude the usage of Jawi, since this article is about the standardized form of Malay in Malaysia, the article as well as the infobox should reflect the official, standardized script. --Joshua ^{Say "hi" to me!}_{What I've done?} 10:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Malaysian?

Malaysia's national language is never called "Malaysian". This is obviously a literal interpretation of the term Bahasa Malaysia. Either stick with "Malay", "standard Malay" or "the Malaysian language". Morinae (talk) 06:31, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Note that there are two articles - Malay language and Malaysian language to represent the two distinct but closely related topics. In the articles, they are referred to as Malay and Malaysian respectively. Doesn't this work? --Merbabu (talk) 06:43, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Many people apparently confuse Malay and Malaysian. Malaysian is a nationality. There was no such thing as Malaysian until 1963, when Malaysia was formed. As of when I'm typing this (4-10-13), I think this article needs a good bit of clean up, partially involving this topic. I'll have to think through exactly how to do this before even attempting to do so, however, because I think I could very easily accidentally make it even worse. Gringo300 (talk) 03:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The concerns of @Morinae could be addressed if we renamed the page as "Bahasa Malaysia"? Pakbelang (talk) 07:28, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

This article is silly, written by those probably who have no idea what is the official language is. The Constitution clearly states the official language is Malay (in English, it is stated in Malay, and in the Malay version, Bahasa Melayu). I agree with Gringo. Somebody took the phrase Bahasa Malaysia too literally with no appreciation of the nuance behind it. I suggest a merge with the page Malay language. 219.92.244.123 (talk) 02:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

It's true that we don't really need an article on the national language of Malaysia, and could sum it up in a section in the Malay language article, but we thought it would be nice to give Malaysia parity with Indonesia, since Indonesian has a separate article. — kwami (talk) 07:55, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I came to this talk page for this exact reason. In Malaysia, we almost never refer to the language as "Malaysian". If you did so, most Malaysians would ask you exactly which language you meant. I would like to add support that this page be changed to a redirect to or merged with the Malay language page. 128.138.64.221 (talk) 18:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Malaysian language

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Malaysian language's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "History":

• From Languages of Malaysia: Andaya, Barbara Watson; Andaya, Leonard Y. (1982). A History of Malaysia. London: MacMillan Press Ltd. p. 278. ISBN 0-333-27672-8.
• From Malaysia: Andaya, Barbara Watson; Andaya, Leonard Y. (1982). A History of Malaysia. MacMillan Press Ltd. pp. 26–28, 61, 151–152, 242–243, 254–256, 274, 278. ISBN 0-333-27672-8.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 16:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Malaysian languages

is a language spoken by Malaysian, Malaysian are clearly consist of 50% malay, 10% other native, 25% chinese , 10% indian , and 5% are consider as other. This is what we call Malaysian, and Malaysian language is consisting of What Malaysian speak daily, for example there are Dayak community in Sarawak, Kadazan Community in Sabah, Chinese community in Malaysia and other, these are Malaysian Languages. It doesnt not make any sense if you are telling me we speak American language whereby consisting of English, french, spanish and etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captain2123 (talk • contribs) 13:39, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Singapore and Brunei standards

Do Singapore and Brunei use the same standard language as Malaysia? Their flags were removed from the info box. I know all three countries call their official language "Malay", but that doesn't tell us whether they use the same standard or not. — kwami (talk) 20:37, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

It is same standard Malayan Law (talk) 05:54, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Merge

"Malaysian" is not officially a language. The official language and national language of Malaysia is "Malay". It is like saying Australians speak English and Austrians speak German. Euanjohnb (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

I can't seem to grasp your point. The terms "Malaysian" and "bahasa Malaysia" are used to refer to the form of Malay used in Malaysia, just the same way as "Indonesian" refers to the Indonesian standard (and regional Indonesian dialects). This has already been discussed here. What is "officially" considered a language seems barely relevant here. Nama.Asal (talk) 22:23, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Short description

The current short description is "Official language of Malaysia; standardized register of the Malacca dialect of Malay" (84 characters). This is too long: the guidance for short descriptions is that they be limited to 40 characters. I propose we shorten it to just "Official language of Malaysia" (29 characters). --Pakbelang (talk) 09:12, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good, 84 is far more than "slightly exceeded if necessary". CMD (talk) 09:18, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Name

Please change this article to "Malaysian Malay language". That language never said Malaysian language but is say Malaysian Malay or only Malay. Do you know brunei also using this standard Nazran225 (talk) 14:53, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

There are a few different sources in the article which show "Malaysian language" is used. CMD (talk) 15:16, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Move

I think this page must change name to standard malay because ISO369-3 code for zsm it say "standard malay"(Bahasa Melayu standard/moden) not "Malaysian"(bahasa malaysia). This is because malaysia can't change official languege to "malaysian langueage" why? because Malaysia constitution it say Bahasa Melayu not Bahasa Malaysia. Do you know this standard also use at Brunei as official langueage & Brunei Malay for local dialect. I hope you know Malaysia is not same like Indonesia & Philippines for official languege Malayan Law 07:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

I have undone your page move. Please provide sources to justify the move. Pakbelang (talk) 02:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Move page

I move this page to standard malay using same name using at ISO https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/zsm Malayan Law (talk) 11:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Article titles, which has our policies on article naming. There's a few considerations involved that might lead to different conclusions, but we do not simply follow the ISO or any particular other organisation. CMD (talk) 23:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree. The term "Standard Malay" is distinct from "Malaysian language". "Standard Malay" also applies to the official Malay used in Singapore and Brunei. Pakbelang (talk) 02:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Definition of "korang"

I believe "korang" should be defined as the plural form of "you", as in "you guys" or "you all", instead of the exclusive "us" as it's currently defined. I tried changing the definition before, but it was quickly reverted.

• This monolingual Malay dictionary says "kau orang" (which "korang" is derived from) is used "in place of 'you all'". Also, the article explains that "korang" colloquially replaces "kamu semua" and "kalian", and since the latter two pronouns mean "you all", shouldn't "korang" mean "you all" as well?
• The article says "korang" is a combination of "kau" (singular second-person pronoun from "engkau") and "orang" (making singular "kau" plural), which logically makes "korang" a second-person plural pronoun, right?
• The article also says "korang" is the colloquial exclusive "us", while "kitorang" is the colloquial exclusive "we". To my knowledge, though, Malay pronouns don't inflect for case, so doesn't "kitorang" stand for both "we" and "us"?

Manong Kimi (talk) 04:36, 11 March 2022 (UTC)Manong Kimi

@Manong Kimi Please provide a source. Pakbelang (talk) 05:44, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Move to Bahasa Malaysia

@Chipmunkdavis:, @Nazran225:, @Euanjohnb:, @Malayan Law:, I propose we move this article to Bahasa Malaysia. This meets the five article-naming criteria as follows:

• Recognizability & naturalness – The usage of "Bahasa Malaysia" in English can be seen in Google Scholar articles (280,000 results) and also in Google Books.
• Precision – The term "Bahasa Malaysia" is clear and is distinguished from the Malay language article.
• Concision – The term "Bahasa Malaysia" is more concise than, for example, "Standard Malay (Malaysia)".
• Consistency – The term is not consistent with the name of the Indonesian language article. However, this is due to the fact that the Indonesian language is often referred to as simply "Indonesian". "Bahasa Malaysia" is never referred to as simply "Malaysian".

--Pakbelang (talk) 07:55, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Certainly a term used in English. It seems as precise and concise as the current title, and likely as recognizable. This may outweigh potential concerns about naturalness (to those unfamiliar with the language) and consistency. @Austronesier and Kwamikagami:, who have inputted before in past conversations, in case they have input here. CMD (talk) 05:40, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Either one works, but Bahasa is hardly more concise. Also, contrary to pakbelang's claim that it's "never" called Malaysian, a quick search of Gbooks finds plenty of cases where it is, including a book titled "Learn Malaysian by Association". Bahasa does seem to be more common, though. — kwami (talk) 05:54, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami True "Bahasa Malaysia" is not more concise than "Malaysian language". Also true Gbooks shows I should never say "never"! Pakbelang (talk) 06:01, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

The naming of this article is a perennial problem and not easy to solve. Most commonly and also officially, the national language of Malaysia is simply called "Malay", but since we – IMO correctly – use "Malay" in a broad sense in Wikipedia, we need a disambiguated or different title. "Standard Malay" could be an option, but then, very often "Standard Malay" is used to encompass to all conventional or standardized varieties that have emerged from the Riau-Johore literary language (including Indonesian). "Standard Malay (Malaysia)" is in many respects ideal and my personal favorite, but this violates naming conventions since we have no article called "Standard Malay" without disambiguator: the topic "Standard Malay" is part of our broader article Malay language.

So Malaysian language / Bahasa Malaysia are the choices we're left with (I don't worry too much about Malay as being used in Singapore and Brunei, as the standard there leans on the Malaysian standard; this standard has been shaped and developed by the Malaysian Dewan Bahasa, and the two other countries are basically freeloading on the efforts of the Dewan Bahasa). And yes, "Bahasa Malaysia" is more common in English texts than the rarely heard "Malaysian language". Naturally, the latter is awfully hard to search for.

Maybe we should try a formal RM to see how editors without ties to the region feel about the non-English title. –Austronesier (talk) 10:54, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier, thanks for the feedback. I'll initiate the RM as suggested. Pakbelang (talk) 14:58, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 17 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. No consensus for Bahasa Malaysia or any of the other alternatives at this point. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 13:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

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Malaysian language → Bahasa Malaysia – Aligns better with actual English usage (the usage of "Bahasa Malaysia" in English: Google Scholar articles (280,000 results) and also in Google Books). There are hardly any references to "Malaysian" as a language. Pakbelang (talk) 15:00, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Languages has been notified of this discussion. CMD (talk) 02:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Malaysia has been notified of this discussion. CMD (talk) 02:50, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment that count includes Malay-language sources. I count a 5-to-1 ratio in favor of Bahasa in English sources, though that's a raw count without evaluation of how the phrases are used. — kwami (talk) 03:04, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

  Valid point. Google Scholar has thousands of hits for phrases such as "in Bahasa Malaysia" and "Bahasa Malaysia and" give thousands of hits[1] Pakbelang (talk) 08:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment: direct comparison of phrases in Google Scholar that filter for English-language sources and (at least partially) ensure that "Malaysian" refers to the language:
  • "speak Bahasa Malaysia": 238 counts[2]
  • "speak Malaysian": 78 counts[3] (including 31 false positives with "speak Malaysian English" [4])

But then, "speak Malay"+"Malaysia" yields 2.300 hits, so I am still hesitant to support the second-best solution (Bahasa Malaysia) over the third-best solution (Malaysian language), when the best page title should refer to the language as "Malay" with proper disambiguation. But admittedly I have no good idea what this disambiguation should look like (see preceding discussion). –Austronesier (talk) 08:56, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• Comment The problem is that the English-speaking world calls the language Malay without indulging in, or even being aware of, the fact that the official language of Malaysia and the official language of Indonesia are basically one language, and that Wikipedia takes the pedantic stance on that, using Malay language to discuss the overarching common language. That leaves Wikipedia needing a different term for the article on Malaysia-specific details, leaving us with a choice between the term in use, Malaysian language, and the Malay name for the language, Bahasa Malaysia, to handle the disambiguation—neither term being use very often at all by English speakers in comparison with "Malay". It might make more sense to move the encompassing article to Malay-Indonesian (reversing the existing redirect) and use Malay language for this one.

Alternatively, if "Malay" is to be left referring to the encompassing language, then maybe this one should be Malay language in Malaysia or Malay language (Malaysia). I think either is better than Bahasa Malaysia. Largoplazo (talk) 10:24, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

One concern with those names is that there are multiple varieties of Malay in use in Malaysia, although perhaps such ambiguity can be quickly cleared up in the lead. (The English speaking world has many problems in this area, for example Brunei Malay which is not the official Malay of Brunei. That page uses "Standard Malay" to refer to the topic of this page, although the Standard Malay redirect currently points to the broader Malay language article. Perhaps this RM will also bring some ideas for that redirect.) CMD (talk) 11:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Malay language in Malaysia or Malay language (Malaysia) are as precise as Bahasa Malaysia but they are not as concise. Malay language (Malaysia) is not as recognisable or natural. Incidentally, the Malay Wikipedia uses "Bahasa Melayu Malaysia" (i.e. Malaysian Malay language). That was one of the titles that @Malayan Law proposed, along with Standard Malay (Malaysian). Bahasa Malaysia beats all of these titles in terms of concision & naturalness. The Google scholar references cited above suggest that Bahasa Malaysia is not as recognisable as "Malay". However, it is more recognisable than any of these other terms. Pakbelang (talk) 14:41, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

I like @Largoplazo's suggestion Malay language (Malaysia), even though it bears some ambiguity since it could also include the non-standard Malay varieties in Malaysia. But this could be clarified in the opening lede sentence, as @CMD has said.

Bahasa Malaysia is however more concise & natural, so @Pakbelang has a good point here.

Malay language is out of question for this topic, since there are multiple Malay varieties in Indonesia which actually go by the name "Malay" (unlike standard Indonesian, which is almost never called "Malay" in Indonesia, and rarely so outside of Indonesia except in linguistic contexts), and another three varieties in Brunei. –Austronesier (talk) 15:13, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

• This language using at Malaysia, Brunei & Singapore as the standard version language. I think the best is move to "Standard Malay" same like Arabic language Malayan Law (talk) 16:14, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
• Comment This is as exhausting as the debates on "Dutch language" versus "Flemish language", regarding what's spoken in the Netherlands and Belgian Flanders, respectively. Lots of parallels, including the proliferation of dialects. Largoplazo (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
• we do not need to link the Malay language used in Malaysia, Singapore & Brunei is the same as the Malay language modified into Indonesian language in Indonesia. the constitutions of Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei very clearly state Malay as the official language while the Indonesian constitution says that the official language is Indonesian language and not Malay language Malayan Law (talk) 04:30, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

  Pakbelang,Largoplazo, Austronesier. I know history about term Malaysian using at Google. Google actually used the term Malaysian before 2015 to change the language version on Google. Google translate also using the term Malaysian but it has been changed to Malay Malayan Law (talk) 04:57, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:USEENGLISH. Showiecz (talk) 19:00, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

  As noted, the term "Bahasa Malaysia" is the version of the name of the language that is most common in the English language. Pakbelang (talk) 00:10, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

  • Then this should be moved to Standard Malay. Showiecz (talk) 01:54, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

    'Standard Malay' does cover this language. However, 'Standard Malay' is not exclusive to Malaysia. Standard Malay language is also used in Singapore, Brunei, and Thailand. Pakbelang (talk) 06:26, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

    • How about a move to Standard Malay (Malaysia). Showiecz (talk) 12:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

    That why I think this article most be same like Arabic language & Modern Standard Arabic. It is simple and don't became debate again. Malayan Law (talk) 10:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

    • Yea I from Malaysia agree with you Showiecz to move this article to Standard Malay or Standard Malay (Malaysian). What about you @Pakbelang. Malayan Law (talk) 05:33, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. This page should be moved to Malaysian Malay if it is talking about a specific variety of Malay spoken in Malaysia. That would be a WP:CONCISE solution that would also satisfy WP:USEENGLISH. It is also WP:CONSISTENT with Malaysian English, Malaysian Mandarin, British English, and Mandarin Chinese. Showiecz (talk) 14:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

  I agree with this as per the rationale provided - WP:CONCISE, WP:USEENGLISH and WP:CONSISTENT. The actual moniker used as per the Federal Constitution of Malaysia is actually irrelevant and can be referenced within the article itself. - Bob K | Talk 08:15, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 3 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 02:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

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Malaysian language → Malaysian Malay – WP:CONSISTENT with Malaysian English, Malaysian Mandarin, British English, and Mandarin Chinese. Showiecz (talk) 02:07, 2 June 2022 (UTC) –  Reopened. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 16:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Note There is a concurrent move request at Talk:Malaysian Malay#Requested move 24 May 2022. CMD (talk) 02:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

 Closed as moved, which leaves the "Malaysian Malay" redirect available for this discussion. Many backlinks may need to be fixed if this proposal is approved. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 16:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support. The proposal is not a perfect fit for the article. However, the article would fit in a section entitled Bahasa Malaysia. There are other non-standard dialects of Malaysian Malay that can be covered by the article. Pakbelang (talk) 13:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support. As it's consistent with most of other Malay languages' article such as Brunei Malay, Jambi Malay, Kedah Malay, Kelantan-Pattani Malay, and etc. Ckfasdf (talk) 14:53, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Malay can refer to a person or possessive adjective, there's no indication this is an article about a language. "Malaysian Malay" would not be recognizable nor helpful to most Wikipedia readers. The point of comparison for this article title was "Malaysian language" and "Indonesian language". Current title should be kept. Walrasiad (talk) 07:15, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment This is what we do with virtually every national/regional variety, e.g. Australian English, Canadian French, Swiss German, Levantine Arabic and hundreds of other language articles. –Austronesier (talk) 08:36, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Three of your four examples aren't helpful as examples of us accepting the same ambiguity as the one noted by Walrasiad, as we don't speak of a person as being an English, a French, or an Arabic. Swiss German is ambiguous and does make the point. Largoplazo (talk) 12:33, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
      • Oh yes, but two, not three. "French" is a collective noun denoting the people as well, as in the infamous quote "the Canadian French are the Chinese of the Eastern States". –Austronesier (talk) 12:41, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
        • I stand corrected. My focus on the singular was unduly narrow. Largoplazo (talk) 23:23, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
          • Add Patagonian Welsh, Pontic Greek, Kedah Malay. –Austronesier (talk) 20:52, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Comment When "Malay" used to refer the people, it almost always used plural form and its aligned with WP:PLURAL. Without plural, it is generally refer to the language. Ckfasdf (talk) 20:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom, also WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONSISTENCY. It has become sufficiently clear in the preceding discussion that the current title is rarely used in texts. The national language of Malaysia is generally called "Malay" by its speakers and the rest of the world. Since Malay language can also refer to a broader range of standardized and dialectal varieties including e.g. Indonesian and dozens of regional dialects, Malaysian Malay is a good and concise way of disambiguation (clumsier alternatives were considered in the preceding discussion: Malay language in Malaysia or Malay language (Malaysia)). As mentioned my comment to the preceding !vote, this is also consistent with hundreds of other language articles.
  A small caveat: "Malaysian Malay" might be mistaken as a broad article for all varieties of Malay in Malaysia (thus also including regional dialects), but we can easily clear this up in the opening lede sentence (e.g. "Malaysian Malay is the a standardized variety of the Malay language and the national language of Malaysia"). –Austronesier (talk) 08:51, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support While "Malay" is clearly a more WP:COMMONNAME for the subject than "Malaysian", that term itself may also refer to the language the subject is a variety of. "Malaysian Malay" thus serves as WP:NATURALDAB. Nardog (talk) 20:37, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support. @Paine Ellsworth: According to the Federal Constitution of Malaysia Article 152, the official language of Malaysia is "Malay language", there is no such thing as "Malaysian language" in reality. Furthermore, the "zsm" ISO language code is actually for 'Standard Malay', which is a standardized version of Malay language that started and used in Riau (Indonesia). We have to stick to the reality (factual laws, regulation, etc.), not delusional things. In Brunei, the official language also Malay language according to the Constitution of Brunei Darussalam, hence there's Brunei Malay article about it. So 'Malaysian Malay' is the correct or proper one. (Lingmatian (talk) 08:21, 8 June 2022 (UTC))
  • The standard that is the topic of this article is roughly the same as the standard of Brunei. The Brunei Malay article is about the colloquial, unofficial dialect centred around Bandar Seri Begawan, not the formal standard. This is an additional wrinkle for the naming of this article, but it is an issue that exists for both the current and the proposed name so I don't think it significantly impacts this move request. CMD (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
    • That's not the main point, the point is, there's no such thing as 'Malaysian language'. (Lingmatian (talk) 09:33, 8 June 2022 (UTC))
      • Reliable sources disagree with that. CMD (talk) 09:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
        • What reliable sources are you talking about? it is clear in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia Article 152 that the official language of Malaysia is "Malay language", there is no such thing as "Malaysian language"! if there is a language called Malaysian in Malaysia, I will lick your ass. (Lingmatian (talk) 10:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC))
          • Refer to malaysia.gov.my source, Perkara 152 Perlembagaan Persekutuan menjelaskan bahawa bahasa Melayu yang dikenali juga sebagai bahasa Malaysia adalah bahasa rasmi yang tidak boleh dipertikai fungsi dan peranannya sebagai Bahasa Kebangsaan. It seems there is a thing called "Bahasa Malaysia/Malaysian Language". Ckfasdf (talk) 11:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
            • It's only your own interpretation, you have to read the original text of the Federal Constitution of Malaysia Article 152 here: Federal Constitution of Malaysia Article 152 (in Malay) or Federal Constitution of Malaysia Article 152 (in English) (go to page 122 to saving your time), and you can clearly see there is no such thing as "Malaysian language". And anyways, the website you are referring to is also available in English, you have to click the "EN" on top, and you clearly can't find anything about "Malaysian language", because it simply didn't exist at all. (Lingmatian (talk) 11:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC))

    The change to "Malaysian Malay" will open the door to creating an umberella article for all types of Malay spoken in Malaysia. As per my initial response to this proposal, "Bahasa Malaysia" or "Standard Malay" can be a sub-section in the new article. Pakbelang (talk) 12:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

    Not following this statement. Such an article can be created any time, no matter what title this article has. CMD (talk) 15:32, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

    Articles about all Malay dialects spoken in Malaysia already created on Wikipedia. You can't push your POV to emphasize that 'Malaysian Malay' is the only standardized variety of Malay language, because the 'Standard Malay' used in Brunei, Indonesia, Singapore, and Malaysia are different to one another (each countries developed their own spellings, vocabulary and grammars on how Standard Malay used). In the article of Standard English, it reflects all regulated English dialects that used in several countries; American English, Scottish English, Welsh English, British English, Singaporean English, Malaysian English, etc. So to distinguish them, there has to be differentiation between 'Standard Malay' and 'Malaysian Malay'. Furthermore, 'Bahasa Malaysia' is ridiculous proposal because this is English Wikipedia, it means you wanna remodel all of languages based on how the way you like it, 'Lingua Español' isn't the English name for Spanish language, and 'Lingua' itself isn't only used for Spanish, but also Portuguese, Galician, Italian, Latin, Sicilian, etc. (Lingmatian (talk) 17:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC))

    Obviously, your comments "Bahasa Malaysia" are off-topic, but as you can see from the previous discussion, the proposal was not "ridiculous", but well-argued and based on sources in English(!); the fact that the Malaysian Constitution does not use the term doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Make yourself familiar with the basic policies of WP before belittling other users' contributions (see also the right column in the first box of the welcome message in your user talk page. –Austronesier (talk) 18:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Support. It makes little sense when this language is just a dialect/form of Malay - could lead to much confusion between "malay language" and "malaysian language" - which makes them seem entirely separate. Might I also suggest renaming Indonesian language to "Indonesian Malay" to fit with this as well. Stan traynor (talk) 07:50, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

For Indonesian language, it is different case, there is a language called Indonesian, don't get confused between Indonesian and Malay, Indonesian (with the ISO language code: id) is different than Malay (with the ISO language code: ms). I am the native speaker of both languages, Indonesian and Malay is like Spanish to Portuguese or Serbian to Russian, both similar but different. (Lingmatian (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2022 (UTC))

fair, but this article says that Malaysian is "the standardized form of Malay language used in Malaysia" while the Indonesian language article says that "It [the Indonesian language] is a standardized variety of Malay". So I assumed they were the same sort of thing - thanks for clearing it up! Stan traynor (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

@Stan traynor: Your impression is broadly correct, see Comparison of Indonesian and Standard Malay, which also explains why Indonesian is generally not referred to as Malay in casual conversation. CMD (talk) 17:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Indonesian and Malay is like Spanish to Portuguese or Serbian to Russian, both similar but different. With some comments it's hard to resist to answer: modern Standard Malay was chosen to become Indonesian less than 100 years ago, and the two haven't significantly diverged except in their vocabulary. The last common ancestor of Spanish and Portuguese, and Serbian and Russian each dates back to more than 1000 years, and this is also reflected in the much bigger differences between the languages of each pair. –Austronesier (talk) 18:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

• I don't know how to talking about this debate. I am Malaysian & I also Malay. Why not reboot this article to be same like Arabic & Modern Standard Arabic, do you guys know this standard also using at Brunei & Singapore. So I think we need to make article about Malay language, Standard Malay & Indonesian language.

°Malay language- we talking about how this language using in the world, language accents, and version standard.

°Malaysian language move to Standard Malay because this standard also using at Brunei & Singapore- so this article about standard version language using at 3 country. And they Constitution also same said "Malay" as official language

°Indonesian language- article for standard version of Malay using at indonesia as official language and name.

-Malayan (talk) 18:52, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Standard version

I think we must add flag of Singapore and Brunei because they also using this same standard. Malaysia, Singapore & Brunei they using same grammar and spoke as official language Malayan Law (talk) 05:53, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

That's my impression as well, but this would need to be added to the body with sources to get into the infobox. On Brunei, a few days ago I found this source which says "it is almost identical with Peninsular Standard Malay, but with identifiable "Bruneiization" on all linguistic levels", and this source indicates there are some differences (if anyone has access a close look at that source is probably warranted). CMD (talk) 06:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

you can hear the standard Malay speech used in Brunei as in television news is the same as Malaysia. It hard to make source because Brunei is small country & not famous like Singapore Malayan Law (talk) 06:27, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

I found the two sources above quite fast, I'm sure there are more out there. CMD (talk) 06:41, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

So I add Brunei & Singapore now Malayan Law (talk) 09:34, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Could you share the WP:RS on this? CMD (talk) 13:11, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Can we make constitution of three country about this for source?Malayan Law (talk) 13:15, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I dont think so... since constitutions of those countries only mention "Bahasa Melayu" (Malay Language) without any mention that the Standard Malay spoken in Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore are the using the same standard. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Please read WP:Reliable sources, which has more information on what should be used when. CMD (talk) 08:15, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't know how to said but 3 country using same grammar. That why Malay Standard version have 2 it is Indonesian and Malay (Standard) Malayan Law (talk) 21:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

refer to this publication, The Standard Malay spoken in Brunei seems to be in an intermediary position, in many ways similar to Indonesian in its pronunciation and grammar, but more like Peninsular varieties in its lexis. So, it seems there is slight difference between Standard Malay in Brunei and Malaysia. Ckfasdf (talk) 13:43, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Bahasa Melayu (Standard Malay) and Bahasa Malaysia (Malaysian language)

In Malaysia we don't call Bahasa Melayu Malaysia. We call Bahasa Melayu (Malay language) or Bahasa Malaysia as opposed to (Bahasa Melayu Malaysia).In fact, Malaysia uses two Malay languages, Standard Malay (Bahasa Melayu Piawai/Bahasa Melayu) and Bahasa Malaysia (Malaysian Language), but the government ignores it. They combine Bahasa Melayu and Bahasa Malaysia. Standard Malay has long been used in the Nusantara, while Bahasa Malaysia was established in 1900.

The development of the Malay language in Malaysia and Indonesia; Malaysia: 1.Bahasa Melayu Johor-Riau (Johor-Riau Malay language/Old Standard Malay) 2.Bahasa Melayu Piawai (Standard Malay) 3.Bahasa Melayu Hindia-Belanda (Dutch-East Malay language) 4.Bahasa Melayu Piawai 5.Bahasa Malaysia (Malaysian language) 6.Bahasa Melayu Piawai and Bahasa Malaysia

Indonesia: 1.Bahasa Melayu Johor-Riau 2.Bahasa Melayu Hindia-Belanda 3.Bahasa Melayu Riau (Riau Malay language) 4.Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian language) 2405:3800:8A0:A545:ADE3:199E:25EB:7124 (talk) 14:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)