Talk:Marc Slutsky

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I have read the requirements for a musician to have an article on Wikipedia. Marc Slutsky meets all of the following criteria on your list:

1. A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.[1]

2. Has had a charted hit on any national music chart.

3. Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country, reported in reliable sources.[3]

4. Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

5. Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.

6. Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.

7. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a compilation album, etc. (But if this is the only claim, it is probably more appropriate to have a mention in the main article and redirect to that page.)

8. Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.

Feel free to discuss this with me if you disagree. If all is well, please remove your deletion notice. Thank you!

Allison

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abkagan (talk • contribs) 20:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 

Talk:Marc Slutsky this article is about a drummer in nyc that has performed with many notible artists, most of which have wikipedia profiles.

(Abkagan 01:37, 12 September 2007 (UTC)abkagan)

• Please see WP:BAND for the requirements for a musician/band to have an article on Wikipedia. --WebHamster 01:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to revise the page on this drummer as per the "talks" I had with various wikipedia members. Please help me rewrite the page, if necessary, if this were to be nominated for deletion again. Thank you very much. Abkagan 20:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)Allison

• I've deleted the endorsements section as advertising is not allowed on Wikipedia. Additionally I've created wiki-links instead of external links as external links are discouraged in the text body. You've also made a lot of claims that are unverified. Please either supply citations for all claims or delete the claims. For example I've not been able to find anything that associates Slutsky with the Goo Goo Dolls. The only listing Allmusic has for Slutsky is as drummer for Splender. Currently the article is in no better shape than it was last time, you are still making the same mistakes you made last e.g. the endorsements. I've left citation tags where the claims need to be verified by independent sources. FYI as Slutsky is a Yamaha endorsee then Yamaha is no longer considered independent. YouTube links are not considered reliable sources neither are MySpace pages or blogs. ---- WebHamster 21:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

• I've corrected the references formatting. I've also deleted about half a dozen links to a Wiki mirror, i.e. the "iskenderiye" website which was just a copy of the original article that was deleted (including the {{db-bio}} tag! I've removed some of the inappropriate highlighting/formatting and POV terms. I've replaced the wiki links that were removed.

I also deleted the drumstick endorsement page for obvious reasons. So far it's not looking too much like the references are holding up. None of them are about him and only mention him in passing. They are either press releases, fan written or about someone/thing else (e.g. Splender). This is still looking like an article for AfD. References needed are stories about him or his work, or at the very least say more about him than just his name. They have to be from independent sources, ie independent from him, his endorsements and record company etc. They need to be from professional writers rather than fans. Please read WP:N and WP:MUSIC again as you don't appear to have understood what is actually required by way of reference. They aren't all duff and there are a couple of okay ones there e.g. Bill Rebis. Please also remember that you are writing this for an encyclopaedia not a fan or music magazine. Jargon and "cool speak" is not the way to go. I hope this helps. ---- WebHamster 23:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Change back to redirect

I have changed this article back to a redirect to Splender. This is based on the consensus that was reached barely a week ago at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marc Slutsky. If someone disagrees with the result of that AfD discussion, please take it to WP:DRV and mention the new sources that have been found. It is not appropriate to simply recreate the article this soon. -- Satori Son 23:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I do wish you'd done it an hour ago, you could have saved me some work :p ---- WebHamster 23:58, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that... -- Satori Son 18:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

References

I'm still learning how this site works and I appreciate the help. I have included valid references as per your request: the Yamaha, Bill Rebis and the All Music Guide articles. I thought that the poughkeepsie journal story would work and iskenderiye.com is written by a woman who writes for Modern Drummer and Rolling Stone magazine, but I guess I need to find a direct link to that. I'm still not sure that it deserves to be redirected and/or deleted. What do you mean by "It is not appropriate to simply recreate the article this soon."? Abkagan 00:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)Abkagan

Please see my detailed reply at User talk:Satori Son#redirect to Splender. -- Satori Son 18:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't comment on the return to redirection, but I think you don't quite have the logic of the references down yet. In WP terms a reference isn't just a link to where a person's name is mentioned without any detail. A reference (or citation, or verification source) is something that is meant to be "non-trivial and substantial", that is to say it has plenty of meat on its bones. Merely pointing to a web-page that says (to paraphrase) "Marc Slutsky is a drummer with xxx band" and that's all, is not considered to be a valid reference. It's insubstantial. As I said earlier, none of the references you gave that are from independent and reliable sources are actually about Slutsky. They are about the album release or about Slender. So again these are not appropriate references for Slutsky's own article, the band yes, but not his. Please don't feel I'm being negative, I do actually work for a session musician so I know how difficult it is to get decent references for them. My guy's been in the business for 40 years and is one of UK's top bassists and I'm struggling, so for a newbie like Slutsky you will have an uphill struggle. At the moment with the material you've put into the article a redirect is as good as it's going to get I'm afraid. What I suggest doing is to flesh out his section on the Splender page with some of the material you used for his article, but don't put any unverified claims in there (even if they are true). Wikipedia isn't about truth, it's about verifiable. ---- WebHamster 01:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

It is really frustrating to search American drummers and find that almost all of them are less notable than Slutsky. Most do not have references, have recorded any albums or are even members of a popular band. I know that I can request their deletion because they seem to have slipped past the sensors but I dont think thats necessary. Whats with the "too soon" comment above? What are the rules as far as that goes? How many references do I need to get him a page? Would a discography help? He's recorded with many popular artists and is listed in the liner notes. Thanks for the help. Abkagan 01:54, 27 September 2007 (UTC)Abkagan

Herein lies the problem I think. I think it's one of perspective. Judging by your comments it appears that your definition of notable is different to Wikipedia's. May I ask what connection you have to Mr Slutsky? It appears to be over and above what one would expect from an averagely interested editor. You maintain that he's notable but the evidence is to the contrary I'm afraid. He may be known in his trade, he may be liked by his fans, he may be a superb drummer but none of these things mean he is notable from a Wikipedia standpoint. As I said earlier, I suggest that you concentrate on fleshing out his section of the Splender article as it's not looking likely that he's notable enough yet for his own article. I'm sorry, but that's just how WP works I'm afraid. ---- WebHamster 11:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm just interested in the NYC music scene and was doing a little research for a documentary that I am making on the subject. Lots of talented artists out there and the music industry has changed alot, as you know. I'm working on getting the correct references for this and other local artists. This has been interesting so far...thanks for the info! (I'd like to check out your musician if you want to email me his info!) Abkagan 13:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)Abkagan