Talk:Mariah Carey/Archive 7

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This page is an Archive of the discussions from Mariah Carey talk page (Discussion page). (September 2009 - July 2010) - Please Do not edit!

Legacy page

Mariah Carey is one of the most influential artists in the history of music. Evidence of her being a legend:
-18 number one singles, 17 of which she wrote.
-3 singles to debut at the top of the Billboard Hot 100
-A 5-octave vocal range
-"Without You", "Hero", and "Vision of Love" are always performed on talent shows like The X Factor, American Idol and Bulgarian Idol.
-"All I want for Christmas is You" is the most played song of the 2000s decade.http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1039491
-First artist to have her first five singles hit the top of the Billboard Hot 100.
-The first pop female artist to combine work with that of Hip-hop and rap, paving the way for modern singers of the 2000s, who feature rappers on their singles.
-Many artists have been influenced by Mariah Carey, including:
~Britney Spears: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-23057861.html
~Christina Aguilera: http://www.celeb-spot.com/featured/Mariah-Carey.html
~Leona Lewis: http://www.unrealitytv.co.uk/x-factor/x-factor-biography-of-leona-lewis/
~Rihanna: http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1512953/20051103/story.jhtml
~Kelly Clarkson: http://popdirt.com/mariah-carey-overwhelms-kelly-clarkson/18314/
~Beyonce:http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/04/03/060403crmu_music

The rest of the people influenced by Mariah Carey can be found here: http://www.metrolyrics.com/mariah-carey-biography.html

1969 or 1970?

For a while, it stated she was born in 1970...now it says 1969..which is correct? Tinton5 (talk) 03:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

If you look through the page history and the talk page archives, this is debatable (I think People is the one major source that goes by 1969, along with some government records), but a majority of sources use 1970 as her birth year, and I think that's consensus. I changed it back, by the way. SKS (talk) 04:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Her website refers to her as the "39 year-old singer" so it must be 1970. Jayy008 (talk) 00:27, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

jayy008:People magazine checks legal documents. Their source is MC's NY state birth certicate and NY ID card. Please change it back to 1969.

to SKS: Consenus may be 1970, but government records have it as 1969, so why are we not going by the government record?70.108.62.103 (talk) 03:08, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you have permanent links to these government records? If so, then that would be definitive proof for her birthyear. Unfortunately, linking People because THEY go with those sources isn't good enough. SKS (talk) 05:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's a link to government records from The US Copyright Office. Text to display. The first time Mariah registered a song was in 1985 with a birth year of 1969. Every song she did with Ben Marguilies (including unreleased material) and every song from the first album has 1969. Starting with the Emotions album, Mariah started registering with 1970. --Janeaustenfan (talk) 03:35, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Here's an interview from May of 1994 where Mariah herself states that she is 24 years old when asked by David Letterman at 1:05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEmQI1iYCJA. This should be enough proof to say she was born in 1970. 207.6.253.152 (talk) 01:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Performers often lie about their age—and have done so for many years. An interview isn't good enough. The article ought to say 1969 has been seen on these documents, and 1970 on those documents. That is, the article should not try to determine for the reader which source is correct. Binksternet (talk) 03:19, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello all, she hasn't sold 200 million albums !!!!!

Why all of you keep to put "200 million albums woldwide" on the article??? MARIAHCAREY.COM [1] announced the sales of over 160 million copies of her albums, singles and videos (June 2009). Her OFFICIAL RECORD COMPANY, Island Records [2]stated that Carey has sold 160 million copies of her albums, singles, and videos (September 2009) !!! Her official record label is the MOST reliable source than any other press release (including her OLD-label, Sony Music!) Or else, if you don't accept that, It's better to remove the line about her sales worlwide Bluesatellite (talk) 07:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Sony/Columbia stated she has sold 200 million albums. And they were her official record company for 9 years and they own the rights to the majority of her catalog, Mariah Carey, Emotions, Music box, Daydream, Butterfly, Rainbow, MTV Unplugged, Merry Christmas, #1's, The Remixes, Mariah Carey's Greatest Hits, and The Ballads along with the majority of her best selling singles. Also there are numerous sources listed to corroborate the source. PhoenixPrince (talk) 22:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

'COMMENT': I don't care what anybody says I love Mariah but the most recent press release from her CURRENT label is the most accurate. It's annoying everytime I go the page it keeps being changed back to 200 million. I think for a start the page should be semi-protected! Jayy008 (talk) 00:26, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

What makes the def jam press release more accurate than the Sony Press release, who by the way OWN THE RIGHTS TO HER BIGGEST SELLING ALBUMS?

Def Jam only owns the rights to 4 of her albums, Sony owns the rights to 15, count em' 15 of her releases with one sole album beng released on virgin but still overseen by Sony mucis entertainment. They would know how much those 15-16 albums have sold better than def jam. Def jam is only liable for a quarter of her albums releases, and about 15 million of her record sales.

So please explain that logic to me. PhoenixPrince (talk) 01:54, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Not to intentionally pick sides or anything, because what you say does make sense, to a degree, but along that train of thought...wouldn't Mariah herself know how much she's sold? I'm sure that if she's sold more, she would say so. Also, as per Kww, chances are that newer numbers would be more correct, regardless of the fact that it's now lower. If both her official site and current record label state a certain number, it's more plausible that those numbers are more accurate, now? Perhaps 200 million was an estimate. Or an inflation. Whatever the case, the Sony link is dead now, so it would be hard to prove the "200 million" number.... SKS (talk) 05:12, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment I agree with the user above. 200 million may have been an estimate. It's likely that they have been re-calculated since Sony released that statement which is why Island Records posted it. I would like to believe she's sold 200 million but I think a most recent press release is the most accurate unfortunately Jayy008 (talk) 18:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Logically, Mariah hasn't sold 200 million albums. Her biggest market is US, and we know that she just sold around 60 million. Check her discography page, Mariah doen't have huge markets outside US. Yes!, she can sold 200 million, but maybe 5 to 10 years later.Bluesatellite (talk) 07:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I would say realistically from items I've read, Mariah is in the 160-170 million range. Keep in mind record companies may sometimes inflate numbers because they are giving estimates or because they want to make it appear they were highly successful with an artist during the artist's tenure on the label. Also, sometimes accidently, things get lost in translation. For instance, it may have been accurately reported that she sold 160 million albums, and 40 million singles. But after being re-reported so many times in magazines, television, or by word of mouth, someone simply said 200 million albums (just adding the two totals together). That could start to stick as the info continues to be further reported. But to be correct, she has sold 200 million albums and singles; but she is at the 160-170 million level on albums alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 (talk) 21:46, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I would say 200 million range because she is hot, cute, and sexy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ephraim10197 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

According to Capri Magazine, Mariah Carey has sold 250 MILLION WORLDWIDE.

New Section

Hey everyone, being that the last section is huge, from 2005 until now, I would like to add a new section like 2008- present called-Continued success- talking about e=mc2, touch my body, memoirs of an imperfect angel and precious.--Petergriffin9901 (talk) 22:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree it's far too long and alot has happened that could be put in a different section. Maybe just call it 2009-present: Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel and Precious or something though,. Jayy008 (talk) 16:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

In popular culture(?)

Any refferances to her in South Park or Family Guy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.89.69.144 (talk) 00:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC) She was mentioned on The Simpsons once, and I think MadTV and SNL a few times, but Mariah isn`t really famous like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Angiex3-2 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

She has been referenced in GLEE several times. Her image has also been parodied on Madtv and SNL, especially during the tumultuous period known to Mariah fans as the Glitter era. But I remember a sketch that SNL or Madtv did when she was first starting out, and Jennifer Aniston was in it. But her name has been interpolated in countless hip hop songs; too many to name.--99.235.34.129 (talk) 16:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Songwriting and Producing

A new section "Songwriting and producing" should be added under "Artistry". If you check Beyonce's wiki page there is a clear section. Mariah should definitely have one. twinqletwinqle (talk) 05:05, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Wording

It should not state she was paid to leave Virgin in the opening section of the article. It should state she was dropped from Virgin and bought out of her contract. That's the correct wording. Stop trying to sugarcoat it.

Under the "Memoirs..." album it should not state ""Obsessed" has so far peaked at number seven on the Billboard Hot 100...", it should state "Obsessed peaked at number seven on the Billboard Hot 100". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 (talk) 03:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Category:Irish people of African descent?

i am not understanding of the putting her in Irish People of African Descent? She is not an Irish citizen descended from Africans based on the article. She is American of mixed Irish and Afro-Latin background, yes? How would that make her an Irish person of African descent if she is not an Irish national? I assume that category is means Irish as nation type not ethnic type, as such would make little sense. Her mother is also Italian.

Can we remove or is there reason I am not understanding to putting her in category?

I am sorry for difficult English, it is not originating language ;) 198.180.240.201 (talk) 19:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Legacy

I think we should delete or improve that section of the article! First of all it mentions data which is also mentioned in other sections of the article (Mariah Carey has been known for her five octave voice along with her use of the whistle register. Carey's achievements include 5 Grammy awards, over 175 million albums sold worldwide and has the most number 1 singles (18) in the United States for a solo artist in history.). Especially listing her 18 #1's contibutes nothing to the section! Some artists who cited her as an influence are unsourced and the section "Legacy" should give insight not only into her career achievements, but also should explain what kind of influence she has/had on other musical artists... Reidlos (talk) 12:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with reidlos, but I don't think we should remove any of the current information until we build up the section a bit, and add some more insight. Otherwise the section will become minimal and removed. Let's all try and add reliable info to the section and expand it. Then we can start removing the repetative stuff.--Petergriffin9901 (talk) 13:11, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

It should be kept if someone makes the effort to source it, I removed Britney Spears because she's friend with Madonna so I doubt she likes Mariah Carey or her music. I will have a look around for some sources for the other artists. Jayy008 (talk) 13:41, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I've no issue with this section, but for two important things;

• It needs better cites. Otherwise it reads like some unidentified person's personal opinion who else sounds like/acts like Carey.
• Carey's "Legacy" is not a list of her achievements. These are very well documented already in the article, we don't need to read them again. We're looking for direct influence or testimonials from artists or other such persons who came to notability after her.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:08, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the lost of #1's be included? I agree though, the only one I new of was Pixie Lott but I will look around again tomorrow, it would be appreciated if others helped out with it! Jayy008 (talk) 22:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Britney Spears has stated in interviews that she loves Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston and they have directly affected her. If neccessary I can find the interview.--Petergriffin9901 (talk) 07:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

this link says Mariah Carey is admired by Rihanna. I can't find any others though. Jayy008 (talk) 23:07, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Let us not forget those Pop Rap collaborations and the legacy of Vision of Love and how she influences the entire contestants of American Idol and Singing competitions. And also popularizing the use of whistle register into a new level and in mainstream and the trend to use melismas. Also don't forget those short skirts that she was listed worst dress. Also the Rolling Stones, MTV's best voices and any other magazines like that that she was listed. I think Christina Aguilerra, Beyonce, Britney Spears, Nelly Furtado, Kelly Clarkson, Leona Lewis, Jordin Sparks, Brandy, Charice, Rihanna, Jojo, and others were influenced by Mariah we just need reliable sources or videos or maybe we make websites about it. The hollywood walk of fame and her classic All I want for Christmas Is You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.55.80.21 (talk) 14:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Born 1970?

somebody keep changing the birth year saying that she was born in 1970. how was she born in "1970" when her drivers license says she was born in 1969? stick with the facts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceedub88 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Dude, sign your posts. Tinton5 (talk) 03:23, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

If her license says 1969, then we go with that. For a long period of time on here, it has stated 1970, although it's a bit of a conflict.

Picture caption is wrong

Date indicated in caption for picture with De Niro is incorrect. Premiere of Tennessee was April 26, 2008. JPEG metadata confirms this, and bio picture (which was obviously taken the same day) also indicates this date.

Tgpaul (talk) 18:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Please Delete The Auto-Tune Comment

Could somebody please remove the comment regard the so called use of auto tune on her newest albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.185.95 (talk) 13:15, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Acceptance Speech

Well, what is the delay in stating that Mariah Carey was drunk during her acceptance speech? This is not a fan page. Whitney Houston performed on X-Factor recently in Britain and a strap just happen to break on her dress, and that made it into her article (although that's not encyclopedia worthy information). Mariah Carey on the other hand, is drunk during an acceptance speech and that's NOT in her article. Why the double standard? I hate to go here, but is it because Houston is black and Carey is part white? I'm not sure what's going on here, but if something as meaningless as a strap breaking on a gown can make it into someone's article over more worthy information, like Whitney Houston has the best selling album of the entire 1990s decade (The Bodyguard), then it seems that since Mariah Carey gave a speech while drunk, that should be in her article! That's more noteworthy than a breaking strap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 (talk) 22:46, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

A MODEL?

Under occupations in the tab at the right of the article, it states she is a model. That is untrue. Mariah Carey is not and has not ever been a model. This needs to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 (talk) 04:10, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

she is great —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.27.116 (talk) 20:31, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

inconsistency of studio albums

Mariah Carey has 12 studio albums. In the return to prominence section it states The Emancipation of Mimi is her eighth studio album. It is actually her 10th and E=MC2 is her 11th? Can some one please fix this I am new to wiki and am not sure how. Thanks! Kylekna12 (talk) 07:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

• Done. Angel (talk) 12:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

THanks!!! 74.78.187.215 (talk) 01:22, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Vocal Range

Yes, we're back here again. This subject has been discussed many times on these pages. User:Petergriffin9901 added the five octave claim, and I removed it with a reason, which he reverted. As you will see from previous discussions, Carey's vocal range is disputed a good cite has yet to be produced to settle the issue. The main reason I removed it this time as the cites are poor.

• The BBC cite includes it with the pointed modifier "reportedly", which is good as saying it's dubious.
• The IMDB cite is a poor. IMDB consists of user generated content. It is not a reliable source.

Please do not add this claim again unless you can produce better cites from reliable sources. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:21, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

The reason I reverted your edit Eric, is because instead of removing a questionable portion, you removed the entire good faith edit, instead of just removing the section mentioning her 5 octave vocal range.--Petergriffin9901 (talk) 23:54, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for providing the cite. Hopefully that will settle this issue. I removed the following claim, however, as what it was saying is not what was in the cites. Adding up two examples of praise for Carey, and saying it is 'often' is synthesis. If you want to say 'often' you need a cite that says 'often'. Otherwise all you verifiably have is evidence that two reviewers regard her as one of the top female vocalists.

I also couldn't find a reference to "one of the top female vocalists" in the variety cite. All it appears to say is she "in first place among solo artists" when you add up No. 1s. That isn't quite the same thing as a direct reference to the quality of her vocals. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 00:47, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Mariah Carey

Mariah Carey was born on Long Island New York. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenrulz2 (talk • contribs) 13:42, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

2nd to Beatles? and 2nd to whom for most successful Hot 100 female artist?

How come the Beatles is mentioned as stated "second only behind the Beatles for most Hot 100 number ones" but NOTHING was mentioned about Mariah being second to Madonna for the most successful female artist in the history of the Billboard Hot 100 chart? Why should there be INCONSISTENCY here? 69.134.155.55 (talk) 04:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I can list you 2 reasons off the top of my head. First of all the Billboard All-time top artists is an opinion by Billboard, however it is an opinion, so there is no need to state it. The Number 1's is factual, not an opinion. A fact would be Mariah Carey has more US number one hits than Madonna. Secondly by mentioning behind Madonna you'll be sparking ideas of superiority, just like if I wrote Mariah has sold the most albums according to Nielsen SoundScan(fact), more than Madonna or Celine Dion. The only thing that causes is inequality and for the album to not be written in a neutral viewpoint. Remember even on Wikipedia, editors have preferences, so it sparks controversy doing additions like that, and people are accused of fancruft. Finally, the reason it does not apply to The Beatles is because they are a band, not a solo artist or more importantly a female solo artist. Being so there is no sense of comparison, because one acheived it on their own rather with the help of 3 colleagues. However with Madonna, there is a big sense of comparison, because they are both in the same league of album sales, fame, status and they are both top female artists. I hope you see the point, it's very different comparing 2 successful females, than a male band who's from another decade. And i think the Beatles comments should be removed In my opinion, I'll wait for some more input.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 04:55, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Billboard's OPINION??? Are you kidding me Petergriffin9901? Do you have any prove to support your argument? Please don't state something that you don't know at all. Billboard magazine is NOT and will never be an opinion chart. "Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists" was issued by Billboard in 2008 based on their chart calculation for over 50 years. The artists were ranked based on their chart achievements during that period. Just because "Mariah Carey has more number-ones" does Not mean that she is the most successful female or even solo artist. Madonna has more Top 2 singles, more Top 5 singles, more Top 10 singles, more Top 40 singles, and more Hot 100 entries! Wikipedia should be the FACT. Stating that Mariah is the second behind Madonna is not fancruft and will not sparking controversy, because it is fact and verifiable. Thank you Baratayuda (talk) 08:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, so I will also add Mariah has more number ones than Madonna, and she has sold more albums according to Nielsen SourdScan. And it's Billboard's opinion, just like Barack Obama has an opinion, it's not fact like Madonna's tour made more than Celine's. We already added fact, that is she's the second on Billboards list, there's absolutely no reason to add Madonna's 1, if you want to see that go to her page, in the success section. This article is about Mariah Carey, not Madonna.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 08:19, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

As I said before, it is FACT. Check the website!! You must accept it though you are a Carey fan and a Madonna hater. Also, why did you mention Nielsen Soundscan? They start tracking records in 1991, long after Madonna and Whitney Houston started their career. Check RIAA, you will know that Barbra Straisand is the highest-selling female artist of all time in the US, Madonna is the second, and your IDOL, Mariah Carey, in the third place. In Elton John article, it mentions that he is the third behind The Beatles and Madonna. Janet Jackson article writes that she is the third most successful female, behind Madonna and Mariah Carey. Why it can not be mentioned here! Baratayuda (talk) 08:32, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Well I didn't write those articles, if I did it would have not been included. Just like in the Celine Dion page, she's the second biggest seller in Nielsen SoundScan, and we don't mention, behind Mariah Carey. I know because wrote it. Secondly, you Idol Madonna is not on my hate list, though i don't respect her hideous methods of acquiring fame, such as prostitution. And I wouldn't talk, I edit many different artists, where as you edit just to try and harass others to think Madonna's the best or in your words-Queen of pop.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 08:37, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't try to glorify someone. I just mention a fact. Also keep your attitude in writing. You can be reported to admin! Baratayuda (talk) 08:40, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh really?, and I guess someone like yourself who goes around spreading fan-cruft and other nonsense is going to report me? Don't make me laugh, you have only one purpose, to glorify Madonna, or else you wouldn't have even stepped to this article. I did the same to Madonna's article, by saying she's behind Barbra Streisand, I hope you like it.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 08:48, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. By the way, I always provide reliable source to praise an artist, not like you! And I hope you will never revert my edit anymore Baratayuda (talk) 08:53, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Shows you are as foolish as they come, My edits are always sourced and reliable, unlike your. It doesn't bother me, I will wait to see what others think. In the mean time, I will add it to all articles I please, and if they are reverted for some reason, you will be the first to know as this will immediately be reverted, Madonna fan.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 09:04, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Petergriffin is obviously biased, he has a long history of inflating Mariah Carey's sales, while reducing the ones for Madonna or Whitney Houston, even if they are correctly sourced. The reasons he stated are absolutely ridiculous, and as usual he started to insult the artist. And your sources are not always reliable, just look at her discography page, full of fansites. Feel free to add the information, he is not the owner of the page, and he is watched by an admin because of his behaviour. 190.233.110.48 (talk) 09:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Oh really, well judging from the fact that this IP only has 1 edit, this as it's first, I suspect this is just Baratayuda editing as an anonymous IP. Secondly I am not being monitored by an admin, as I have never had a scuffle with one. And your one to tell me about my history, your an IP who has one edit, mysteriously (Barayatuda) and you are supposed to know about my issues? You are obviously who I claim, and should be reported. As I and many others pride ourselves with our edits, look at the Mariah Carey albums discography & Mariah Carey singles discography and you'll see they are all reliably sourced thanks to myself and my colleagues. I have added at least half of all the singles certifications, all of them being sourced from official charts. You have no business here, accusing editors who have made hundreds of times more edits than you. I still find it funny though that for this IP's first edit you came here butting it.--PeterGriffin Talk • Cont. 09:27, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Petergriffin, when did Billboard ever become OPINIONATED? Didn't you get it? Mariah is ranked #6 and Madonna at #2 in the Billboard All-Time Top Artists? To say she is second to no one is merely fancruft. So why can't you mention she is definitely behind Madonna as the most successful female artist in the Hot 100? Madonna's article is stated she is the 2nd biggest selling female in the US, behind Barbra Streisand and I thought that was just fair enough. So why can't it be done on this Mariah page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.155.55 (talk) 20:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, for one, what does it add to the article? How does it improve it in any way, shape or form? What's in the Maddona article is fine, but not necessarily the gold standard for what should be in all female music articles. They shouldn't be replications of each other. Of what benefit does including the Billboard Hot 100 information, a system that uses it's own internal calculations by the way, have on the article as a whole? —— Digital Jedi Master (talk) 04:46, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Is it particularly notable that Mariah is second to Madonna on billboard's all time 100 artist chart because she is NOT second to Madonna. She's fifth to the Beatles. Her list of number one hits however, as a solo artist she is second to no one, not male or female. She has the most for any solo artist. However for the purposes of clarity it is needed to mention in the head that THe Beatles have more because billboard makes that distinction, and The Beatles are a pop group. But I digress, there is a difference between being second to The Beatles, and being 6th to the Beatles while simultaneously being 2nd to Madonna. Are you gonna list every act that appeared from 1-5? I don't thinks so. 75.21.89.26 (talk) 06:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC) Mariah Carey cheated on her husband with Marshal Mathers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.8.173 (talk) 08:35, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editsemiprotected}}

i have researched mariah carey and read news paper articles online and it says that she was born in 1969 not 1970 which would make her 41 this year, however this may not be right the articles could be wrong, just thought i would pass it on so that the correct information is there

thanks 86.177.33.181 (talk) 12:11, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Can you post any of the links here for verifying purposes? I've tlped the request. You can remove the tlp after you post the links and one of the helpers would check it. Thank you. BejinhanTalk 12:47, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

correction?

Her mother was Irish American and her father was of Afro-Venezuelan and African American descent;[22] her paternal grandfather, Roberto Nuñez, changed his surname to Carey to better assimilate upon moving to the United States from Venezuela.[23]

Her father was not of African American descent. He might have been but his descent is Afro-Venezuelan. Maybe he is of African American descent having Afro-Venezuelan roots.

Let's try to figure this one out cooperatively and with congeniality as we all love Mariah! Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 18:22, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

True Merit?

What I find deplorable is the lack of true critical discussion as to whether or not Mariah Carey succeeded on merit. Let's face it, she was given a big break by Tommy Mottola who became her husband and he used his connections to launch her career. Never mind allegations of mafia connections of her former husband - which do not die to this day - other vocalists with a better voice like Whitney Houston or better strategy like Madonna do not hide their contempt for her. Did Mariah Carey really earn her good fortune? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.147.154 (talk) 03:55, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Just butting in here for a sec. Most of what you mentioned is either false, unsourced or opinionated. I would like to point out that Mariah Carey did receive allot of help from Tommy in the beginning, but you should note that true talent always shines no matter what. Also Celine Dion had a kick start from her own career crafter Rene Angelil. Whitney Houston did indeed have one as well, his name is Clive Davis, also don't forget she came from a family of famous singer; Cissy Houston etc. And finally Madonna; as Iv'e expressed before, her big break came from years of pornography, sex, prostitution etc., things that would make a dog famous.--PeterGriffin • Talk 04:09, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

2nd Christmas Album/Thirteenth Studio Album

I am not comfortable with mentioning this as two different projects. We still are not sure if there are two new albums, or if this new album Mariah and JD are working on is just the Holiday album. As we know from past issues, holiday albums are considered studio albums, making it quite difficult to judge whether they are two albums or one in the same. Apart from the recent news about the holiday album, no source or confirmation has been made as to whether there is indeed another studio album apart from the Christmas album in the works.--PeterGriffin • Talk 03:55, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with Peter, the section is ambiguous: it is difficult to understand if it refers to two different albums or to the same one.Angel (talk) 10:28, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
• Agreed. We should hide the sentence about the Christmas album until we get more information. Reidlos (talk) 10:31, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Agree! Jayy008 (talk) 14:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Great, I'll just leave it as New album, until we fully know the specifics.--PeterGriffin • Talk 14:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Agree... i agree that all mentions of the specifics of the album should be kept hidden. Althoguh it should be noted that The Times did report that she filmed the cover for her second xmas album but we dont know if this is also the thirteenth album.Lil-unique1 (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I also removed the movie titles from the biography section; I think there's enough room for that at the acting career section. Reidlos (talk) 10:57, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Voice section

Describing Carey's voice, French-American baritone and professor in the Conservatoire de Paris Malcolm Walker said, "[Her] voice is tired, but it's very well led, especially in the piano register. There are a lot of air passing [...] She passes easily in head voice. It's her true voice. Light lyric soprano, the upper register is much more healthy than the low register. Then, there is the belting voice. It works very well. […] It’s the top of her voice, the diamond. But in the low register, it's tired, it's a worn instrument. […] The muscles were so drawn that it's distended."

This section seems out of context and out of place in the article. It's likely that it is referring to the decline of her voice and not to her overall career as an vocalist since it uses terms such as tired and worn, when that obviously wasn't true 20 years ago as stated by a number of critics musicians and the like. Also I'm assuming that whoever added it removed the previous text about her voice altogether which at best looks suspicious. 75.21.89.26 (talk) 06:28, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Alejolo, 29 May 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Hello , I would like to request the change of Mariah Carey's sales in the US . According to the article she has sold over 63 million records in the US , which now stands at 64.3 surpassing Madonna , here is the link of the source http://www.mariahcarey.com/news/news.php?uid=2882 it's from the official Mariah Carey web site

Alejolo (talk) 17:44, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Done--mono 19:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

RIAA ranking vs. Nielsen Soundscan ranking

RIAA's website showing rankings clearly puts Mariah Carey behind Madonna and Barbra Streisand, with Carey selling 63 million and Madonna selling 64 million albums in the US—a very close race for second place. I changed the lead from saying "According to the Recording Industry Association of America, she is the second best-selling female artist (behind Barbara Streisand) and sixteenth overall recording artist with shipments of over 64.3 million albums in the US" to "According to the Recording Industry Association of America, she is the third-best-selling female artist (behind Barbara Streisand and Madonna) and sixteenth overall recording artist with shipments of 63 million albums in the US." The two references following that sentence are the RIAA website and Carey's own website which states that Soundscan puts her at 64.5 million albums sold. We cannot have Carey's website putting words into RIAA's mouth—if the sentence quotes RIAA, we must give RIAA numbers. Binksternet (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely right. RIAA official site is the most reliable for that claim. Bluesatellite (talk) 23:33, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Okay, looks good. I'm taking this article off my watchlist. You guys appear to have it together. :)

Binksternet (talk) 15:15, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that source was not that it was innacurate or wrong, or that her website was putting words in RIAA's mouth. The problem was the source was being misused. 63 million is the certification of shipments from RIAA, 64.5 million is the amount of actual albums sold from retailers since 1991 according to Soundscan. They're numbers from too different sources RIAA and Soundscan, 64.5 million is not the figure her website is saying the RIAA has certified. 75.21.88.59 (talk) 16:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

BASIS OF A LEGACY PAGE:

First of all MOVE all statements from the Philantrophy and other Activities section to the new LEGACY PAGE which is relevant to the to her LEGACY. EXAMPLES: Rolling Stones influential singer, 100 most influential person, etc.

As said at #10 the Legacy Page does not include most of the accomplishments by Mariah rather than it is an article about testimonies(influence she made) and the significance of this artist mostly on a worldwide basis. These are some list of items to be considered in Mariah's legacy page:

1. What is she known for? Her voice of course also state that she is One of the most influential singers in the world.(need sources)

2. What did she contribute to the music industry?

A.) Those Pop Rap Collaboration things by female which is a rare feet back then. (need sources) B.)Maybe the first(If not first popularize in mainstream) White female artist to incorporate her voice into black singing.(First white to do R&B)although she consider herself as black. C.) First ever(if not first popularize) one of the first mainstream artists who re-recorded vocals for a dancefloor version now we call Remix. D.) Popularizing the use of whistle register and Melisma trend. (Although in Minnie Riperton was first Mariah Carey really popularize it on a wider audience and a required move or feat among singers) E.) (A Major Crossover) although this is debatable, by Mariah Carey to Music Box era she was a POP artist(Adult Contemporary type) who had a major crossover to Hip-hop..

SPECIAL: If you think Britney Spears and Christina Aguilerra pioneered the crossover from a girl next door image to a sexy one, think again Mariah was mainly one of the first.! (Although many cites Madonna was first think again Madonna was not a girl next door image at first. In the beginning of her career she was like the same with Cindy Lauper(female rock artist) not a teenybopper.)

3. This is important: The influence she made on other artist: Not only testimonies from persons that were influenced by Mariah also her contemporaries. On what is their good comments about her. These are: Christina Aguilerra, Beyonce, Britney Spears, Nelly Furtado, Kelly Clarkson, Leona Lewis, Jordin Sparks, Brandy, Charice, Rihanna, Jojo, and others praises from her contemporaries: The comments of Whitney, Pati Labelle, Celine, Janet, Mary J. BLige, Aretha and others: about its citation it also important to include the magazine or the interviewer not just the website.

Also her significance to Hip-Hop world comments of Hip-Hop and Rap artists.

4. THE MEDIA:State the following: A. Hollywood Walk of Fame B. Countdowns example she was ranked #1 by MTV best voice. worst dress, and others C. Rolling Stones D. Wax Figure E. 100 most influential person F. 140 most influential on twitter. G.Forbes sixth richest female entertainer H. Slant magazine named the video for "The Roof (Back in Time)", which Carey co-directed with Diane Martel, one of the twenty greatest music videos of all time.[201] and others: I. LEgacy of Vision of love

5. ALL I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS IS YOU

And lastly 6.this could be generalized the most #1'sETC ETC....DO NOT EMPHASIZE IT JUST SUMMARIZE IT.

nOTE: SOME STATEMENTS FROM THE VOICE SECTION MAYBE MOVED TO HER LEGACY PAGE..

THANK YOU"

REGICUAZA

hey i almost forgot her influence on American Idol and singing talent shows and the legendary "KEN LEE" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.160.175 (talk) 11:22, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Remix albums and new material

The section including information about her two remix album and new material she's currently workin on needs to be reviewed and reworked... Any suggestions? Reidlos (talk) 13:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Album Sales

Island Records, which is producing Carey at the moment, claims her sales to be at "OVER 175 million records". We have here various reliable and independent sources claiming her sales to stand at "200 million". I see no reason for her sales to not be listed at 200 million. Her label says "Over 175" and many other sources agree, but are more precise and say 200. Here is the Island Def/Jam source claiming "OVER 175". As you see if the source said "almost 175" I would understand, but it says "Over" indicating a possiblity of higher sales. Here are the many sources claiming sales of or over 200 million.

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

As you all see, many reputable sources agree that her sales are at or over 200 million, and by Island claiming over 175, they are potentially agreeing, not arguing. Also it is better to quote these sources because since Island Records produces Mariah carey, they are not an independent source. Whereas all of these are, so they are indeed more reliable.--PeterGriffin • Talk 23:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you, Peter but it's only her record label that we can regards as "RELIABLE" and not from some sort of fan websites. 175 million records (albums, singles, videos) seems verifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.155.55 (talk) 02:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Being as you semi-agree with my logic, I will explain to you why. Firstly, Island/Def Jam currently produces Carey, making them affiliated with her, making them an non-independent source in Wikipedia. We have several independent sources that claim her sales at 200 million. Additionally. her Record label says "Over 175", if it said "Less than 175" I would agree with you, because the independent sources are contradicting her record label. However Island says "Over 175" meaning that the number could quite possibly be 200. Also we have various sources that claim 200, that are all reliable, and going on what I said before, they coincide with her Record labels claims.--PeterGriffin • Talk 05:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

As long as her label does not release a statement mentioning a figure of 200 million I'd say writing "over 175 million records" is the most reasonable thing to do... Reidlos (talk) 05:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd say "Over 175" because of counting them individually her album sales reached 140m. Island wouldn't say "over 175" meaning 25 million more (I doubt). If she'd sold like 176 or 177 maybe they'd say that. Jayy008 (talk) 11:43, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm im not sure that we can claim 200 million sales. Though many of those sources are reliable there has been many cases of reliable sources reporting inaccurate things. It would not be in Island Records' interests to claim Mariah sold less than she did. I would stick with 175 million as only one of the sources provided which claims 200 million is music industry related. Lil-unique1 (talk) 14:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok guys, I wont argue the matter further, Ill wait until Island releases the sales of 200 million. Just by the way Jamie, Id like to just point out where your wrong. If we add her album sales according to the way they are listed and sourced in Wikipedia they reach far greater that 140M. "Mariah Carey-15M" "Emotions-10M" "MTV Unplugged-6.5M" "Music Box-32M" "Merry Christmas-12M" "Daydream-25M" "Butterfly-15.5M" "#1s-17M" "Rainbow-10M" "Glitter-3.5M" "GH-3M" "Charmbracelet-4.2M" "Remixes-1M" "TEOM-10M" "E=mc2-2.5M" "The Ballads-1M" "Memoirs-1M". Add that up to 170M ALBUMS. Adding just her US single sales would reach 200M. Let alone all her worldwide single sales. Add it up you'll see.--PeterGriffin • Talk 00:31, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Are all the sources reliable? Like all those WW sales of those albums? Didn't you say yourself you emailed Def Jam and they said TEOM sold 9m but shipped 10m? Jayy008 (talk) 22:25, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think I ever said a thing like that Jamie, but just to prove a piont. We'll discuss her top seller, as those have the most weight in terms of sales. "Music Box, which is listed as selling 32 million copies WW has this source. The source is reliable, one used for most sales and digital download tracking, yahoo movies and music. Next "Daydream", its listed at sales of over 25 million copies. This source is the London Paper which is a reliable source. Next we have #1s with sales of over 17 million copies, sourced by LiveNation, one of the largest ticket sales and tour organizers in the world. The same source goes for "Mariah Carey 15M" and others. Merry Chirstmas is sourced by her own official website at 11 million copies sold, with many sources claiming higher sales (12). "Butterfly" has recorded sales of over 15.5 million from this source, a reliable news source being used in various other articles. "TEOM" which is sourced by her label and countless others as selling over 10M by 2007's end is also reliable. "E=MC2" listed at over 2.5M by Charts in France a source used in many album charts and sales sections. Charmbracelet as well is sourced by LiveNation, selling over 4M copies. Those are the most reliably sourced, then counting strictly the sales according to certifications on the others. "Emotions" sales of 3.6M in the US, Million in Japan (1M), 4x Platinum in Canada (400K) and Platinum in the UK (300K), Gold in France (200K) and Italy (50K), Platinum in Australia (70K), equaling at almost 6.4M, and being certified in Holland, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea not including many other small certs. Then MTV Unplugged selling over 2.7M in the US, and France 145K, Gold in Japan (150K), Gold in UK (100K), Platinum in Canada (100K), Australia (70K), 2x Platinum inn Dutch charts (100K), equaling at over 3.M. "Rainbow", 2.945M in the US, 413K in France, Million in Japan (1M), Platinum in Germany (500K) and Sweden (80K), France (300K), Spain (100K), Italy (100K), Brazil (100K), 2x in Canada (200K), Gold in UK (100K), also being certified in Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Mexico, Holland, New Zealand, Phillippines, Singapore, Korea and Switzerland, equaling at over 7.9M. "Glitter" sold 3M according to LiveNation. "Greatest Hits", Platinum in US (500K), UK (300K), Japan (300K), Brazil (100K), Gold in France (200K), Italy (50K), equaling at over 1.5M. "Memoirs" has certs of over 650K. All of these, with many certs not even counted, let alone sales stand at over 147 Million copies, include the 17.2M and 13.8M singles in the US and that equals 177M WITHOUT counting ANY single sales Around the globe. Im not trying to change your minds, just prove my logic.--PeterGriffin • Talk 21:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

INTRO is just full of Billboard trivias

I just noticed that the introduction part has gone worse and worse over the past few months, by stating all her achievements in Billboard in all 3 paragraphs. This is way too much!!! We all know Mariah has achieved more than these. All of her Billboard awards need not be mentioned and her success does not need to rely much on her being 2nd to Beatles in terms of #1s, or her having more weeks spent at #1 than the Beatles or Michael Jackson, or "One Sweet Day" spending more weeks at #1 than any other song, more #1 singles for a solo artist than Elvis, blah blah blah! It is becoming so RIDICULOUS to a point it's already looking more like a fan website, really. We can probably move some, if not all, of these to her Life and Music Career. Mariah truly deserves a BETTER intro. Ikabod08 (talk) 22:31, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Totally agree. I'm afraid that too many of the edits to this page (and particularly the lead) are by those who believe that more is always better, and that to omit one single achievement by Carey is to insult her awesome-fabulousness-that-must-be-established-above-everything.

The purpose of the lead is to summarise the content of the article. It is enough to mention that she is a top selling artist, with multiple major critical awards. It can even list a few of the most significant. But all the detail about how and where and by how much is really not needed in the lead, it can be expounded at length within the article. As it is, I suspect that all this gushing detail is having the exact opposite of the desired effect. Rather than being impressed, the reader has switched off before they reach the middle of the third paragraph and probably isn't caring anymore. The comparisons and point-scoring against other artists is particularly tedious. We aren't reporting a sports league. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:50, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, I think the intro looks very good and informative. I don't agree with above mentioned reasoning and think it should stay the way it is.--PeterGriffin • Talk 20:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Can you explain why it is necessary to compare her chart record with those of Michael Jackson and the Beatles in the lead? Does her chart record not speak for itself? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:32, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

yeah what's the use of mentioning "Mariah ahead of the Beatles or Michael Jackson", yet omitting the line "Mariah is the 3rd best-selling female artist (behind Barbra Streisand and Madonna)". I don't really get it. This intro is becoming such a fankruft already. it may look good to die-hard mariah fans but it doesn't set a good standard at all in wikipedia anymore. all we see are her billboard trivias and it is becoming so absurd! Diphosphate8 (talk) 01:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I think we should mention more people she has never played with or even from her generation..ROLF !!! Peter Stay on topic pls read -->Wikipedia:Writing better articles and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lead section)#Introductory text.. At this point perter i see no less then 6 editors that think this is not the way to go..So i would say consensus is to leave all this artist out of the lead. I say 6 because of at least two other article i know of were people have talk about it, but yet you keep adding them See --> Talk:Celine Dion#Specific "Soundscan" figures in Lead Section. and Talk:Mariah Carey singles discography#What does Madonna or Whitney have to do with this article? Moxy (talk) 06:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Why are we discussing this again? The lead represents the consensus here. As far as I see, the topic here is the intro, which I believe should stay the same.--PeterGriffin • Talk 20:45, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

We are talking about it to show you that NOONE thinks your right!! As mentioned above what you believe is not the consensus, just cause you add them every wear does not mean consensus. You have done a great job here, but as mentioned before its sounding like a fan club site. We are hoping not to have to go through a FA review, but it looks like it will happen anywas Moxy (talk) 21:25, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Moxy, what are you saying!?. The consensus here is regarding the mention of Madonna, Michael Jackson or the Beatles. Nothing else!. You and Escape Orbit agree about the intro, something I dont Agree on. The other editors who commented here only mentioned regarding the mention of other artists, nothing about the intro. Its onlt a 2-1, thats not a consensus. So it appears, you misinterpreted it all and are the wrong one.--PeterGriffin • Talk 21:38, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Not sure if you honestly don't understand what is going here or your just messing with us. What we are talking about is mentioning any of them at all anywhere in the lead.. One person mentioned one point and the others different points, but all are asking you y are this artist mentioned in the lead and you cant seem to say y. So what we see here is you just tiring to link all the artist you like together by mentioning them in the lead of each other, even though there only relations is by a web sites sales stats not any industry relationship. The exact same thing you are adding to the lead is said in the article in the same way in the appropriate spots. So again we ask you Y do they need to be mentioned in the lead besides the fact you like them. This lead here mentions 9 other artist and the Beatles 2 time - this is not normal as non of them are part of the article. Moxy (talk) 22:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Peter, I just read your profile now and I'm not surprised to find out tha you’re a huge fan of Mariah but not a fan of Madonna at all. I don't wanna think something's fishy going on here but it led me to believe you're trying to make Wikipedia a chart race among the divas (Celine, Mariah, Madonna, Whitney). I have observed that you are trying to show that Mariah tops among all these divas by INFLATING her sales from 175 to 200 million albums, which is apparently baseless. It’s all clear that Mariah is the 3rd biggest selling female in the US, but yet you keep on inserting Nielsen Soundscan which we all know just started in 1991 and worse, you keep on adding this line “Mariah is the top-selling female artist of all time” many times in the lead.

Moreover, Mariah's success does not merely rely on her success in the Billboard chart. You mentioned all (yes, literally ALL) her achievements in Billboard, so may I suggest to end it by saying “With all these, Mariah was ranked #6 among Billboard Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists" in their 50th anniversary.” I am 100% positive this was already put in the lead before but you deleted this part without any reason. Is it because of the fact that Mariah is the 2nd most successful female artist in the history of Billboard Hot 100, behind Madonna (who was ranked #2 over-all, behind the Beatles)?

If you don’t agree with this, may we just suggest to omit all these Billboard facts in her intro and in my opinion, is much better to be put in ‘Mariah Carey Singles Discography’ which is fair enough and just to set a good standard in Wikipedia. Mariah is undoubtedly a very accomplished artist but we don't need all these crap in the lead. Any thoughts? Ikabod08 (talk) 22:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

peter, y are u so obsessed with mariah's album sales and billboard achievements? is this all what we can really say about mariah? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.155.55 (talk) 23:24, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Firstly Moxy, its up to you if you would like to remove the name in those pages. It really is of no concern to me. If you prefer do ot, we have a consensus favoring that opinion anyways. Secondly, I have no need to try and make Mariah the "top diva" as all 3 of them have major accomplishments and contributions to music. I find it sad that your trying to through me under the bus because I dont like Madonna. My favor in music is of no concern to anyone, it only matters if my edits are poor. I happen to not really like Madonna, but if you must know I really enjoy Celine Dion and like Whitney Houston. The mention of 200M records, happens to be true, just add it up, and many reliable sources claim it too, however you people want to base it purely on her record label. Its fine, but dont try ad change the facts, Mariah happens to be the most influential in music, take a look at her accomlishments. Anyway, as I said, remove the names if youd like, it makes no difference to me.--PeterGriffin • Talk 19:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

PeterGriffin,I have seen your edits on Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Madonna and the other divas and it's just that I observed you inflating Mariah's albums sales while deflating Madonna's sales so what would make us not think you being not bias? Now we read the 200 million albums Mariah has sold which is absolutely baseless, worse coming from a very unreliable source (Capri magazine) which doesn't even track sales at all. LOL!

We also noticed that you kept on omiting anything that would state that (1) Mariah is 2nd to Madonna among female artists in the Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists or (2) Mariah is the 5th among artits with most Top 10s (behind Madonna, The Beatles, MJ, Stevie Wonder) or (3) Mariah is the third best-selling female artist in the USA (behind Barbra Streisand and Madonna), YET you like stating "Mariah is 2nd only to Beatles over-all for having the most No. 1 singles." What makes the Beatles more notable than Madonna or Michael Jackson that you keep on linking the Beatles to Mariah? Diphosphate8 (talk) 23:27, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

You are so full of crap. You show me one instance where have inflated Mariah's sales? Thats right I don't I find sources and add them like anyone else does. Secondly, I do not deflate other artists, if there is no present source I remove them. Same goes for this page. This is Mariah's page, where her accomplishments are listed here, not on Madonnas page. This page is meant to list her accomplishments, not Madonnas, go add that info to her page, before you go accusing good faith editors of fancruft.--PeterGriffin • Talk 07:29, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

The solution is to remove all mention of Madonna, Beatles or Jackson. This article is not about them and this game of sales Top Trumps has no place in the lead. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:28, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Best Selling of all time

I have been discussion with PeterGriffin how this might be best included in the article. I'm copying the last bit from my talk page for further input here.

PeterGriffin asks; "You wouldn't oppose to adding the "Best-selling female artist of all time" as long as its sourced by reliable third party sources, right?"

That would be fine, except I don't see the need for "of all time". No source can really say that, they can only speak for the period that sales figures have been compiled. It would also have to be a very good cite, as it seems to be a disputed fact. What would be better is something like;

[Authoritative source] lists Carey as the the best selling female artist since records began in 19whenever with sales of NNN million .[1]

Others may dispute this, but unless they can demonstrate that [Authoritative source], isn't authoritative, it cannot be said to be false or dubious. It is then up to the reader to decide whether they believe [Authoritative source]. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Petergriffin keeps on inserting this claim "the best-selling female artist of all time" in the lead when he and we all know remain to be a hoax. Yes it is sourced BUT it's just two magazines writing a special article about Mariah Carey claiming her to be the best-selling female (of what? the US? wordwide?). When did Insider or Daily Telegraph rank or certify recording artists? Did they mention in the magazine who ranked her such an honor, such as IFPI, RIAA? Answer: NO! Don't push it, Peter. We have discussed this a million times. We don't know if you pretend to be not listening or you're being a die-hard fan of Carey. Scroll up so you'll be enligthened. Thanks! Ikabod08 (talk) 12:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Just because two sources (one of which is a television tabloid show) state that someone is the best-selling of anything, doesn't make it notable enough to be included. Besides, Petergriffin9901 is the only one pushing for this, which showcases the user's bias for the article. The lead section reads like a fan page, for crying out loud. The fact that this is still a FA is beyond me. That said, there has been a lot of discussion on the user's motives in the past and at this time, I don't agree to having this in the lead. A handful of sources isn't enough. BalticPat22Patrick 14:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The fact that your trying to bash every positive and possible thing in this article shows your bias towards this page. You cannot refute reliable sources. "The Daily Telegraph", "The Insider", "Universal Music Group" and "Island Def/Jam" all list her that title. It is too bad if you don't agree, that is not debatable, they are reliable. can I go to Celine Dion's page and say "Sony music" isn't a reliable source and remove it for her page? Yeah I don't think you would like that, because your a bias, accusing and hateful individual.--PeterGriffin • Talk 19:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

First of all, your accusations are without warrant. Secondly, I am not here to start wars, something that is obviously very difficult for you not to engage in. Making insults and excuses won't help your POV on the subject, and is not something that a proper editor should be utilizing toward others. Lastly, the fact that other users agree with my viewpoint on the subject showcases the fact that the lead section needs a major revamp. The article is also in dire need of a review, and the fact that it is still a FA is beyond me. BalticPat22Patrick 03:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, personally, I agree with Baltic, this Mariah lead has become WORSE (courtesy of Petergriffin) who kept on inserting whatever fancruft he could put in - ALL in one paragraph!!! We have read claims from RIAA, World Music Awards, Daily Telegraph, Insider, and lots of Billboard trivia (first and last paragraph), etc. This really needs some modification -too much information in the lead is almost like reading Mariah's fan page already. I am not being biased, it just needs to be pruned at once!!! Diphosphate8 (talk) 01:29, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Being that you two don't seem to understand English, let me break it down for you. When you have many reliable independent and non-independent sources claiming a fact and they are being quoted properly, there is nothing to discuss. Its like if I go to "Celine Dion's" page and start a "Discussion (revert)" because I don't think the "World Music Awards" or "Sony Music" have authority to make such claims. I can do that, and you'll continue to revert as I do on this page. Secondly, understand that the problem is only coming from a Celine Dion fan and a Madonna fan, who is already trying to tie in Mariah to Madonna. If you want a discussion, well have one, but with all the regular editors of the page, as well as a clear representation of the case. Also to both of you, because of recent edits, some of the "Billboard trivia" is gone, leaving around 2 facts. What is wrong with that? Baltic, should I go and remove that "Celine Dion is the best-selling Canadian artist of all time" or any other such claim? it is just trivia isn't it? That's what I thought, your just trying to remove any major accomplishment listed in the lead, to demote Mariah's success.--PeterGriffin • Talk 13:17, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Comparing national sales and international sales are completely different, and is something you should be aware of. Nations have their own way of tracking records (RIAA, CRIA, FIMI, etc). There is no way of tracking international album/record sales, period. That is the problem, here. Lastly, like I said before, you need to keep to the topic at hand. Don't divulge into other articles that don't solve the problems in this one; that violates WP:TALK. BalticPat22Patrick 14:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Peter, don't push it. One simple reason why those Billboard trivia were removed because they're simply CRAP! You have mentioned like 5 or 6 facts!!! It's you against the world now and let us come up with a consensus first before you add some fancruft again in this Mariah article. It is getting too much bloated with ALL the claims (best-selling female, most number ones, etc.) all in one single paragraph in the lead. Don't you think it's TOO much? Diphosphate8 (talk) 23:46, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you fail to know how to count. If you look at the article, it mentions US and Worldwide sales, which is mentionedin all artists pages. Then it lists her 18 #1 hits and her ranking #6 on the Billboard Chart (something I didn't add" thats all, that not trivia. And its not crap, its accomplishments that you don't want her being recognized for.--PeterGriffin • Talk 23:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Then stick to the topic, Peter. No need to waste your time to look for sources to back up your intent (best-selling female of nowhere for Mariah). Scroll up once again to so we're all on the same page. No one wants to fight with you, and please be courteous enough. Calling names would not lead you anywhere. We're here to improve this article. Diphosphate8 (talk) 00:05, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Checklinks

The article is full of dead links, redirects, broken urls and bare links as per Checklinks tool. These should be corrected seeing that its a Featured Article. Also, Alternate text for the images are needed to be added. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 06:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Filled in 11 references using Reflinks... Just FYI you Dont need alt text for GA and FA things as of late - Well the last few i was involved in anyways. Moxy (talk) 06:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Is it? I always see a different scenario though. Oh well, never mind, just the dead links needed to be sorted. --Legolas ^(talk2me) 04:07, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

They are not sure what alttext is so it looks like until they can figure it all out...I have not been asked for alt text when in a review..its actually a cool debate see-->Wikipedia talk:Alternative text for images its really realy long LOL. Moxy (talk) 04:48, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Accepting removal of sourced claims

As part of the Pending Reviews process I have accepted these last two edits. They may look like vandalism due to the removal of inline citations, but these are my reasons (feel free to revert me without fear of course!):

• the first edit gave some justification in the summary, questioning the reliability of this Capri magazine article; the edit also removed this inline cite but that did not support the claim: it had "albums, singles and videos to more than 175 million"
• the second edit removed this blog entry, something I would also do, except with an edit summary, but please re-instate that edit (after checking) if the consensus is that Paul Grein is a reliable blogger

-84user (talk) 23:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Voice section take 2

This section is full of POV statements "like a frog" come on ..plus it sounds like its written by a 12 year old..any thoughts on how to fix this.... Moxy (talk) 14:18, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

after looking at this closer it seems to be edits added by a ban user Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/F6Coloratura80/Archive (the user is now blocked again !!Moxy (talk) 14:24, 7 July 2010 (UTC)