Talk:Spider-Man (2018 video game)

Requested move 29 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 18:08, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

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Spider-Man (2018 video game) → Marvel's Spider-Man (video game) – The game is referred to by its full name in most promotional media, as well as the developer's official website, which is distinctive from various other Spider-Man video games or media in general. Per WP:COMMONNAME this should suffice as the appropriate title for the page. The boss 1904 (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't care what name is used but stop moving it without discussion. Also any resulting name should contain "(2018 video game)". Given that this is alternately referred to as Spider-Man 2018, Spider-Man PS4, and Marvel's Spider-Man, Marvel's Spider-Man (video game) could literally apply to any video game called Spider-Man, of which there are a few. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 17:22, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. The nomination misstates how WP:COMMONNAME works. It is not a question of what the "official website" and the "other video games" say, but how the game is referred to in independent reliable sources. Granted, there are some that use "Marvel's Spider-Man", but they don't appear to be in the majority. From the actual sources used in this article, we see numerous that simply call it "Spider-Man": [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] to name just a few. The fair-use image of the game cover used in the article also does'nt use the proposed name... It has the Marvel logo at the top, and then simply "SPIDER-MAN" as the title underneath. No 's in sight. Finally, "Spider-Man" is clearly more WP:CONCISE than "Marvel's Spider-Man" as well, and as noted above, the latter isn't a unique title either, meaning the proposal to remove 2018 from the disambiguator also isn't valid. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per Amarkuru. —El Millo (talk) 00:23, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose JosephWC (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Amarkuru. "Marvel's" is also likely just branding. — SirDot (talk) 01:55, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
• Neutral: I do not think "Spider-Man" is the definitive common name. While it was mostly referred to as only "Spider-Man" or "Spider-Man PS4" at release, more and more sources started to call it "Marvel's Spider-Man" after its initial release. I think we can restart this discussion once its sequel releases, then we'd know if the branding becomes an important part of the game's title. OceanHok (talk) 11:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Referencing style

Why does this article use the referencing style it does? Can't seem to find a discussion anywhere. Seems converted contrary to WP:CITEVAR in Special:Diff/862186435 and Special:Diff/862259394. Non-standard style which makes editing harder, find content from ref harder, unnecessary duplication, caused Harv errors in history and other articles like Special:Diff/1134963753. Indagate (talk) 20:21, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

"Spider-Man (2018)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Spider-Man (2018) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 30 § Spider-Man (2018) until a consensus is reached. Indagate (talk) 08:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 17 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Participants are more oppose to move on new title suggested by the nominator, so, I closed as Not moved in the following discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~~ αvírαm|(tαlk) 17:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

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Spider-Man (2018 video game) → Marvel's Spider-Man – the name by which it is now known, although in the previous RM discussion of 2022, prefixing of "Marvel" was seen as a branding tactic. The previous discussion concluded with waiting to see if the sequel retains the titling. The sequel released in October is called Marvel's Spider-Man 2, and similar game names follow the pattern.

The previous discussion also had an opinion about having "2018" as part of the title. "Spider-Man 2018" as a search term does bring up this video game as the primary topic, as a result of which the RfD discussion for the redirect Spider-Man (2018) recently concluded in retaining the redirect to this article. The RfD also concluded with a suggestion to rename the article to Marvel's. Jay 💬 16:30, 17 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 16:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. That would be incredibly confusing as "Marvel's Spider-Man" would be thought to refer to the character published by Marvel Comics. Spanneraol (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: Nothing has changed since the prior move attempts. With all due respect to WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, WP:SMALLDETAILS, and WP:NATURAL, "Marvel's Spider-Man" is still an ambiguous term as it refers to this game, the game series, and this 2017 animated TV series, so there is still no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC yet given this is a case of WP:RECENTISM, hence why the current DAB page and hatnotes are in use. Maybe a few more years down the road, this could be reconsidered. Most other Marvel adaptation articles do not use the "Marvel's" branding in the titles, such as Hit-Monkey (TV series), Iron Man VR, Daredevil (TV series), The Defenders (miniseries), etc. I know Marvel's Midnight Suns does, although that should be Midnight Suns (which redirects there). Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:37, 17 December 2023 (UTC) Actually, upon further investigation into this area, I don't think it would be good to evade the precedent set by the likes of Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy, so I will Strongly Support this move now, especially since it is consistent with {{Marvel's Spider-Man}} and the Category:Marvel's Spider-Man. I don't know what I was thinking opposing it right away. Trailblazer101 (talk) 08:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

  How can you "strongly support" this? How is this title not ambiguous with everything else with that name? "Marvel's Spider-Man' can refer to so many different things. Spanneraol (talk) 13:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

  So? It doesn't matter as long as there isn't another article titled "Marvel's Spider-Man" (except for subtopics of this article). This is the basic premise of WP:SMALLDETAILS; the "Marvel's" bit sets the video game apart from the character. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:37, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  Precisely. My change in !vote and given explanation is enough. Trailblazer101 (talk) 02:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  How does that set it apart? The character is from Marvel.. if i hear that name i think of the character not a video game... at least put (video game) after it so you don't completely confuse all the readers. Spanneraol (talk) 03:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  That's what hatnotes are for. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. No objection to Marvel's Spider-Man (video game), which currently redirects here. 162 etc. (talk) 18:26, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Trailblazer and others. When the game came out it was just known as "Spider-Man", and although some media may choose to prepend Marvel's, that's not particularly the common name and is also confusing and ambiguous since all variants on the Spider-Man theme are linked to Marcel. Overall the current title is fine.  — Amakuru (talk) 00:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, per discussion. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:03, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
• Strong support per WP:SMALLDETAILS and WP:SUBTITLE. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:20, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

  Perhaps I should have elaborated on my !vote. For starters, WP:NATURAL states, with emphasis added: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title, is sometimes preferred. Spider-Man is the common name for the video game; that is a fact. However, it is ambiguous — we already have an article titled Spider-Man, and that is the primary topic. On the other hand, Marvel's Spider-Man is not an ambiguous term, meaning no other article bears that title, and even if there were, the video game is the primary topic. WP:SUBTITLE affirms this: When the most commonly used name is ambiguous, the full title and subtitle might be suitable to be used as a form of natural disambiguation. Marvel's is sufficient to distinguish the video game from the character, as noted by WP:SMALLDETAILS, so a hatnote pointing to the DAB page is more appropriate than needlessly or unnaturally disambiguating this topic. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: "Marvel's Spider-Man" could relate to literally anything involving Spider-Man, it's am ambiguous title. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 08:32, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

  But are there any other articles titled "Marvel's Spider-Man"? If not, why not just let hatnotes do the work? Nineteen Eighty-Four could also refer to the year, yet it points to the novel. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Per the concerns of others, in this particular case I think it can be argued that "Spider-Man" is the WP:COMMONNAME due to the sheer prominence of the game which is way, way higher than others with a similar title like Marvel's Midnight Suns. (It's basically a Yoshi's Island situation where a certain name has become predominant). At most I'd be fine with a move to Marvel's Spider-Man (video game). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  If an unnecessary disambiguation is required, I would also prefer Marvel's Spider-Man (video game) over Spider-Man (2018 video game). The year makes the current title a highly unlikely search term, making it harder for readers to find. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:36, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  Nobody searches for disambiguation terms, that isn't their purpose. They're there to disambiguate. And this game isn't called "Marvel's Spider-Man"', it's just called Spider-Man. Even the box says that.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:41, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  The problem with disambiguating by year is that editors who are not experts in the subject matter may not be aware that the game was released in 2018. That makes it harder for them to tell which of these titles is the one they are looking for. But they may have heard of the video game being called Marvel's Spider-Man, which is by no means an obscure usage, why is why using that title would be more recognizable than throwing out a random year. Looking at the DAB page, I see there is also Spider-Man: The Video Game, which can also be argued as "ambiguous" — but not really, since there is no other work entitled Spider-Man: The Video Game.

  Marvel's Spider-Man is clearly the official name of the game, and has been since before its launch. Assuming you were referring to the logo, the Marvel logo has often been used to mean "Marvel's", for example Marvel's Midnight Suns, Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Marvel's Wastelanders, Marvel's 616, etc. I do not think that is in dispute.

  InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Per the concerns of others In ictu oculi (talk) 17:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
• Comment My reply to Amakuru above reminds me: using "Marvel's" as natural disambiguation is WP:CONSISTENT with many, many articles: Marvel's 616 (despite potential confusion with Earth-616), Marvel's Behind the Mask, Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy (despite potential confusion with Guardians of the Galaxy), Marvel's Most Wanted, Marvel's Storyboards, Marvel's Wastelanders, etc. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  Mhmm. The GotG one is a significant example that lends further credence and precedent for this change. WP:Redirects are cheap and there's no harm in retaining some of these other disambig instances. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support per the WP: COMMONNAME of the video game, it is also the WP:NATURAL disambiguation. Lightoil (talk) 23:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support – per InfiniteNexus and precedent in article's such as Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy. DecafPotato (talk) 21:52, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Originally closed as no consensus; per Special:PermanentLink/1192478733#Talk:Spider-Man (2018 video game)#Requested move 17 December 2023. Queen of Hearts ❤️ (she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 16:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Proposed title is vague and could refer to the character or various media with that title. Neocorelight (Talk) 23:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. This game, and its sequels, are commonly referred to without "Marvel" in their titles. What unrelated games are commonly known as has no bearing on this series. Jessintime (talk) 16:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. I don't know whether Spider-Man or Marvel's Spider-Man is the common name for this game, but in any case Spider-Man (2017 TV series) and Spider-Man (video game series) are similarly referred to in both ways. Since there are other topics which get called "Marvel's Spider-Man" (not merely topics generally related to Spider-Man and generally related to Marvel), the supposedly distinctive WP:NATURAL/WP:SMALLDETAILS name fails to distinguish. I also considered Wikinav, currently showing only 32% of views going to Spider-Man (2018 video game). Adumbrativus (talk) 22:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.