Talk:Maud of Gloucester, Countess of Chester

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Name

Matilda is the name always given in twelfth-century documents contemporary with her life. Maud is a later variation of that name, the way Jack may be used for John.

The claim that she was known as "FitzRobert" or "fitz Robert" (the latter more common to the period) is highly unlikely because of the derivation of the word fitz. It is an abbreviation of the Latin word filius meaning son of. The erroneous assumption may be based on the fact that her father, Robert earl of Gloucester, was the illegitimate son of King Henry I and, in later centuries, filius or fitz was used to indicate illegitimacy. Surnames were just developing in the early 12th century when she was born and there were many filius and filia (masculine and feminine forms for son of and daughter of) designations for legitimate children for those with no surnames. Matilda was the legitimate daughter of Robert earl of Gloucester and so might have been referred to as filia Robertus. Filia was never abbreviated as fitz in her lifetime.DeAragon 12:40, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Ancestry

Latest comment: 3 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The ancestry tree in this article shows her maternal grandfather, Robert Fitzhamon (d. 1107) as the son of Hamon "Dentatus". But Wikipedia's article about Robert Fitzhamon says he was a son of Hamo "Dapifer," who was in turn a son of Hamon "Dentatus." And Wikipedia's article about Hamo "Dapifer" notes: "Traditional pedigrees of the Grenville family of Stowe in the parish of Kilkhampton in Cornwall and of Bideford in Devon, dating from the 17th century when the family was raised to the Earldom of Bath erroneously gave the father of Robert FitzHamon (the most famous of the Hamo family) as Hamon Dentatus and omitted any mention of his true father Hamo Dapifer. This was despite William of Malmesbury having described Hamo Dentatus as avus ("grandfather") to Robert FitzHamon. The erroneous descent was given official status when recited in the royal warrant signed in 1661 by King Charles II creating titles of nobility for John Granville, 1st Earl of Bath (1628-1701)." pnh (talk) 14:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC)Reply

Hello, I suggest this ancestry of her: Dmitry Azikov (talk) 14:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Ancestors of Maud of Gloucester, Countess of Chester^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]

16. Robert I of Normandy^[5]^[8]

8. William I the Conqueror of England^[3]^[5]^[7]

17. Herleva of Falaise^[8]

4. Henry I of England^[2]^[3]^[5]^[7]

18. Baldwin V of Flanders^[3]^[9]

9. Matilda of Flanders^[3]^[7]

38. Robert II of France^[10]

19. Adela of France and Flanders^[3]^[9]

2. Robert, 1st Earl of Gloucester^[1]^[2]^[5]

10. Reginald Gay?^[2]

5. A woman from Gay family^[2]

1. Maud of Gloucester, Countess of Chester^[1]

24. Hamon Dentatus^[6]

12. Hamo Dapifer^[6]

6. Robert Fitzhamon,^[6] Lord of Gloucester and Glamorgan

3. Mabel FitzHamon of Gloucester^[1]^[6]

28. Roger de Montgomery, seigneur of Montgomery

14. Roger de Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury

29. Josceline

7. Sybil de Montgomery

30. William I Talvas

15. Mabel de Bellême

31. Hildeburg

Sources:

Bernard Burke, Ashworth P. Burke (1934). A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage. 1934
Marjorie Chibnall (1991), The Empress Matilda: Queen Consort, Queen Mother and Lady of the English, London, UK: Basil Blackwell ISBN 9780631157373
D. Crouch, "Robert of Gloucester's Mother and Sexual Politics in Norman Oxfordshire", Historical Research, 72 (1999) pp 323–332.
Hollister, C. Warren (2001). Frost, Amanda Clark (ed.). Henry I. New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 0300088582.
Oram, Richard; David: The King Who Made Scotland, (Gloucestershire, 2004).
Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall. Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700: Lineages from Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Other Historical Individuals. 2008 ISBN 0806317523, ISBN 9780806317526

References

^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Complete Peerage, v. III, p. 167.
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e David Crouch, Historical Research, 1999
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 118, 123, 156–157
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e Oram, David, p. 10
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Hollister Henry I pp. 363-364
^ ^a ^b ^c Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123
^ ^a ^b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118
^ ^a ^b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 156–157
^ Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 142

Add topic

[<ref-1] Complete Peerage, v. III, p. 167.

[Crouch-2] David Crouch, Historical Research, 1999

[<ref3-3] ^ ^a ^b ^c ^d ^e ^f A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, pp 26, 32

[4] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 118, 123, 156–157

[<Oram-5] Oram, David, p. 10

[<ref7-6] Hollister Henry I pp. 363-364

[<ref4-7] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123

[<ref5-8] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118

[<ref6-9] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 156–157

[10] Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 142

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