Talk:Mazan rapes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Previous legal cases

Do all of the previous legal cases refer to Pélicot? There are multiple defendants. Snowman304|talk 04:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

There is only one victim, and she has wanted to be publicly identified, and that's her name. The instigator who proffered the other defendants is also a person with that name, so whatever the individual defendant, they were involved with both Pélicots, one as the victim, and one as the facilitator. -- 64.229.88.34 (talk) 04:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Revert of edit by 49.157.46.143

Hi @Global Donald,

Would you mind explaining your rationale for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mazan_rapes_case&diff=prev&oldid=1244321267 a bit more? I'm not seeing what exactly is problematic with the reverted edit.

Thanks! Jean Abou Samra (talk) 12:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Duplicate article

See also: talk:Pélicot affair

Pélicot affair (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) created 4 September 2024 and Mazan rapes case (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) created 5 September 2024, are duplicate topic articles; duplicating the coverage of each other. -- 64.229.88.34 (talk) 16:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support merging the articles, but also think the title should be more concisely written as "Mazan rapes", as the word "case" unnecessarily limits the article to the court proceedings and is too precise as the article is also about the rapes against the victim that were committed in Mazan. Additionally, the victim is a low-profile individual and, in some jurisdictions, details that can identify the victim of sexual offences are often subject to publication restrictions. WP:BLPCRIME also applies. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 18:47, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

  The victim has explicitly requested to be referred to by her full name in the press. Jean Abou Samra (talk) 20:27, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

  That may be so, but Wikipedia is not a newspaper or news website, so editors should be mindful of the Wikipedia guideline too. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

  In any case, the name is given in most of the sources and in some cases directly present in the newspaper article titles that are quoted in the reference footnotes, so I think there's no point in hiding it in the main article body. Jean Abou Samra (talk) 09:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

  It is the title I am concerned about, not the content in the article. A rape victim's name should probably not appear in a Wikipedia article's title. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 7 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Fathoms Below (talk) 19:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

---

Mazan rapes case → Mazan rapes – As per Cameron Dewe, "the word 'case' unnecessarily limits the article to the court proceedings and is too precise as the article is also about the rapes against the victim that were committed in Mazan". RodRabelo7 (talk) 17:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject France, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, and WikiProject Sexology and sexuality have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 17:25, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support: As I made the original suggestion. The proposed title is also more concise and more natural without the word "case". Additionally, with many people charged, this is not one case, either, but numerous "cases". - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support: As nomination, "case" is redundant as both "rape" and "case" are nouns. Also the French media have dubbed this "Viols de Mazan" (Mazan rapes).--Obi2canibe (talk) 14:19, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Cameron Dewe and Obi2canibe, especially given that French news sources have mostly used the phrase "Mazan rapes". CJ-Moki (talk) 22:31, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Improper revert

This revert is clearly not appropriate. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mazan_rapes&diff=prev&oldid=1246204832 2603:7000:2101:AA00:51DF:B834:1672:242A (talk) 20:51, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

It's a good thing that nobody's ever given a false confession or forced confession. Snowman304|talk 00:34, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

It is beyond cavil that he gave a confession. As reflected clearly in RSs. Our job is to reflect what the RSs say. --2603:7000:2101:AA00:90BB:7F96:AF7F:BF18 (talk) 23:55, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

RS report that Pélicot has admitted to the rapes and referred to himself as a rapist. That is sufficient. Assuming that the statements are false or forced is original research. Cortador (talk) 13:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Adding list of co-accused?

Pages in other languages include a list of others standing trials in this case - either under their full names or using only initials, with a citation for each name included (https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cas_de_violaci%C3%B3_de_Masan https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_des_viols_de_Mazan)

I just cleaned up the list on French Wikipedia and would like to add it here, but wanted to check in first that this was allowed on English Wikipedia. E mln e (talk) 06:59, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@E mln e: A partial list of the co-accused has been added to this list several times but has been removed on each occasion due to WP:BLPCRIME. I'm sure it will be removed if you add it.--Obi2canibe (talk) 21:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Obi2canibe, so once they are convicted, and they will very likely be, the list may be added, right? RodRabelo7 (talk) 06:16, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes but there may still be some over zealous editors who continue to object to the inclusion of the names even after they've been convicted.--Obi2canibe (talk) 15:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm surprised by the co-accused don't meet public figure status. Most of them have had their full names and full newspaper articles published about them. Glad I asked before putting in the time though! E mln e (talk) 05:23, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Translation of "M'endors pas"

A figure in the article is captioned "Feminist graffiti in Paris: M'endors pas (Don't put me to asleep)." Would that translation be better as "Don't fall asleep"? RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 06:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello. No "Don't fall asleep" is not a better translation. "(Ne) m'endors pas" is literally "Don't put me to sleep", "Don't send me to sleep" or "Don't lull me to sleep". "Endormir" has often a figurative sens in French. It sometimes means "fool", "bore" or "to get sb to drop his guard". (Is it the case in English ?) "Ne cherche pas à m'endormir" is a very common phrase for "Don't try to fool me" / "don't try to lull me into a false sense of security".

I am a French speaking user of Wikipedia, please trust my french but do not trust my english. Yelti (talk) 20:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)