Talk:McMahon killings

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page moved. WideArc (talk) 08:05, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

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McMahon Murders → McMahon killings

Nominator's rationale -- there must be consistency and parity of esteem. If the Dunmanway deaths were "killings", so were those of the McMahon family. As simple as that. There is a decided double standard here (and regarding other pages) that should not have been tolerated up till now. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 20:41, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Just replied to a similar message on Arnon st page. The problem is which name is most frequently used. In the sources I have it's called "murders". If you want to change the Dunmanway one back to "massacre" (which I would have no problem with) I suggest you argue on the merits of that article in particular. Jdorney (talk) 23:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Wiki was not party to the GFA. The only issue re the name that is important here is: is it the commonly used name for the event and can that be reliably verified? Sarah777 (talk) 00:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

McMahon killings is fairly uncommon, but the capitalisation is wrong here based on the sources. It should be McMahon murders. Angus McLellan (Talk) 18:34, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

New Lodge

Didn't the killings take place in the New Lodge area? I believe Kinnaird Terrace was located there and if so the article should state this.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

The exact borders of the New Lodge area are debatable as it's an unofficial designation but for me Kinnaird Terrace is on the wrong side of the Antrim Road to be considered New Lodge. Keresaspa (talk) 03:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Creation

Snowded, Northern Ireland was created long before the 1920s; at least thousands of years ago, according to some members of its government. I understand what you're trying to say, but your wording lacks clarity. Gob Lofa (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

See prior discussion on other articles. If you want to change things raise a generic RfC at the Irish MOS page otherwise stop wasting my and other editors time putting rejected edits on multiple articles ----Snowded ^TALK 05:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't recall your lack of clarity being addressed on other talk pages. Gob Lofa (talk) 12:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Changing "Northern Ireland" to "the Northern Ireland polity" does not clarify anything. "Polity" is a jargon word that doesn't add clarity, only another layer of confusion. The word "polity" was debated at length at Talk:Provisional Irish Republican Army#Polities, and there was a very clear lack of support for its use. Edit-warring to add the word to multiple articles is disruptive, and obfuscating by pretending to think that Snowded was referring to his own lack of clarity does not make you look clever. Scolaire (talk) 12:45, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

You haven't addressed the points I raised in my first comment. I'm not opposed to Snowded or you removing 'polity' here; what I'm opposed to is the lack of clarity Snowded's version has caused. Gob Lofa (talk) 17:15, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Snowded doesn't have a "version". All Snowded ever did was to revert your edit that changed "Northern Ireland" to "the Northern Ireland polity". The sentence in question was added on 6 October 2009 and never caused any confusion. This is all just further obfuscation to get around the fact that you are editing disruptively. Scolaire (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with your interpretations. You seem to be obfuscating about the fact that I'm not opposed in principle to removing the noun you fear may cause confusion. That's disruptive. Gob Lofa (talk) 19:10, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't even make sense! For that matter, your first post doesn't make sense either. Somebody (three people actually) has reverted to a stable version of the article and you say you "understand what they're trying to say, but their wording lacks clarity." I sure don't understand what you're trying to say! Perhaps you could add some of your famous clarity. You are free to disagree with my interpretations, but it doesn't change anything. Scolaire (talk) 19:47, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I understand that Snowded is trying to say that the polity was created during the war, but his wording doesn't make it clear that he's referring to the polity, rather than the physical territory, of Northern Ireland. Gob Lofa (talk) 22:50, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Again, Snowded is not "trying to say" anything, and he hasn't added any "wording". All Snowded ever did was to revert to the version that was stable for six years. The article says that the state of Northern Ireland was created during the War of Independence. It is perfectly clear that this is what the article is saying. It was perfectly clear to you. If you hadn't known exactly what it meant, you wouldn't have tried to "clarify" it; instead, you would have come to the talk page and said "I don't know what the article is trying to say here." Now, stop playing silly games. If you have a proposal for improving the article without using the word "polity", let's hear it. Otherwise you're just wasting everybody's time. Scolaire (talk) 08:02, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

You're wrong when you say the article describes NI as a state; it doesn't. I never said I didn't know what the article's trying to say, I said the opposite; "I understand what you're trying to say." Your interpretations are becoming wilder. If you have a proposal for improving the article without using the word "polity", let's hear it. Otherwise, like Snowded, you have some neck talking to me about time-wasting. Gob Lofa (talk) 11:37, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Turning people's words back on them is not anything like as clever as you think it is. I have no proposals because I have no problem with the article as it is. You have said that you understood what it says, so there is no need to change anything. I'm going to stop feeding you now. Go ahead and say something else clever. Scolaire (talk) 13:00, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

You're wrong when you say the article describes NI as a state; it doesn't. Gob Lofa (talk) 13:29, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

That's much better! However, I didn't say that the article describes NI as a state: I said that it says the state of Northern Ireland was created during the War of Independence, which it does, without needing to use the word "state". You say you understood it fine. There's no reason to believe other people won't understand it fine. Scolaire (talk) 13:36, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

If you reckon it's much better, why didn't you say that when I said it the first time in my comment before last, instead of estimating how clever I am? Since when is NI a state? Gob Lofa (talk) 14:11, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I addressed your attitude because your attitude is an issue. Your current attitude is no better. Goodbye. Scolaire (talk) 14:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Go ahead and say something else enlightening. Gob Lofa (talk) 14:34, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

User Gob Lofa permanently blocked as a sock of blocked user Lapsed Pacifist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.50.240 (talk) 00:29, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

"Policemen" vs "Gunmen"

As per:

• "The McMahon killings occurred on 24 March 1922 in Belfast, Northern Ireland when six Catholic civilians were shot dead and two were wounded, allegedly by members of either the Ulster Special Constabulary (USC) or the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC). The dead were aged between 15 and 50, and all but one were members of the McMahon family. The gunmen broke into their house at night and shot all eight males inside. It is believed to have been a reprisal for the Irish Republican Army's (IRA) killing of two policemen the day before."
• The McMahon killings are believed to have been a reprisal for the IRA's killing of two USC policemen in Belfast.<ref name=anphoblacht>

The identities of the gunmen have never been definitively established and cannot, in an encyclopaedia, be referred to as policemen. An Poblacht is an IRA propaganda rag but Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia. Quis separabit? 01:27, 14 April 2016 (UTC)