Talk:Meixian dialect

Raoping is not Meixian dialect

I've asked for the redirect of Raoping to Meixian to be removed.

Meixian is more than 150km inland where as Raoping is virtually on the coast of of eastern Guangdong.

Phonologically, the Ping tones in Meixian show a high level Yin Ping tone and a low level Yang Ping tone. In Raoping, the Yin Ping is low level whilst the Yang Ping is high level, the exact opposite of Meixian dialect. Moreover, in Raoping dialect, the Shang and Qu tones are merged. See p.421, Hashimoto, The Hakka Dialect, Cambridge UP, 1973, reprint 2010. The phonology of the tones already preclude it from being a dialect of Meixian Hakka.

I've also removed the sentence "Ethnologue calls it Yue-Tai, and it also goes by the name Raoping." from the article. Other than citing Ethnologue, please provide modern sources if you want to re-instate the reference to Yue-Tai. Dylanwhs (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Which dialect is Raoping, then, if not Meizhou? The tonal merger is suggestive, but we really need a reliable source here. — kwami (talk) 00:19, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami: Zhan Bohui (詹伯慧)'s 广东省饶平方言记音 (1993) clearly says, "饶平客家话通称上饶客话... 上饶客话和以梅县话为代表的粤东客话是大有差别的。" (Raoping Hakka is generally called Shangrao Hakka... Shangrao Hakka is very different from Yuedong Hakka represented by the Meixian dialect.) Justinrleung (talk) 03:21, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

@Justinrleung:, @Dylanwhs: I've added Shangrao as an additional variety at Hakka Chinese#Dialects, with a citation tag. Please verify the information is correct and ref it. Thanks. — kwami (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami: There is an article on the Raoping dialect of Hakka, currently named Raoping dialect. I've requested it to be renamed Raoping Hakka since the majority of Raoping is actually Teochew, not Hakka. I'm not sure about the name Shangrao dialect since it's not the name used in Taiwan. "Raoping Hakka" would be more appropriate since both people in Raoping County and Taiwan would use this name. Justinrleung (talk) 20:05, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

I think the article name change to Raoping dialect of Hakka is appropriate. For reasons that @Justinrleung: has mentioned, I am in agreement. Most of the literature on Raoping Hakka is Raoping Hakka, rather than Shangrao. There is also a Shangrao in Jiangxi, and that may lead to confusion. The Shangrao in Raoping county is in the north. From [1] we see that the Hakka areas cover almost a quarter of the county in the north. That would suggest more districts within the county are Hakka speakers other than Shangrao 上饶镇； namely: Raoyang 饶洋镇 ，Xinfeng 新丰镇 ，Jianrao 建饶镇 ，and Sanrao 三饶镇 could be Hakka speaking areas. Compare with this Chinese wiki about the county [2] Dylanwhs (talk) 21:50, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, given that I know nothing of the subject. We may want to have a stub on Raoping/Shangrao just so we can have a dab page to prevent confusion. — kwami (talk) 01:44, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Confusion

1. In the citation(Cheung, Yuk Man (2011). Vowels and Tones in Mei Xian Hakka: An Acoustic and Perceptual Study(PhD thesis). City University of Hong Kong.) of finals, the author uses i/u to record glides. However, the page uses j/w to record glides. Which one should we use?

2. There are mainly two types of Roman PINYIN schemes, Taiwan's and Guangdong's. The PINYIN notation on the page is a hybrid. Which one should we use? Ciamun (talk) 06:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)