Talk:Mercedes Moné

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2023

I suggest to change her page name into Mercedes Varnado. Sasha Banks used to be her WWE ring name now her NJPW/Stardom ring name is different. She is credited in the show The Mandalorian as her real name Mercedes Varnado so its better give priority to her real name. Rtyggu (talk) 13:54, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The biggest part of the article is about her wrestling career as Sasha Banks. Even sources calls her Sasha Banks now. Varnado would be fine if she gets more work as actress, like Dave Bautista or Dwayne Johnson, not like Edge. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

As a matter of interest, why do you consistently argue for performers keeping the name they were known by in WWE? Are you attached to or employed by WWE in any way, HHH Pedigree?

To this point, Mercedes Vernado has now left WWE and moved on with her life. She is also on record, in a WWE documentary no less, as saying everyone calling her 'Sasha' rather than by her actual birth name had an adverse affect on her mental health to the point that she had to take a hiatus from the company.

Therefore, it strikes me that the IWC and the Wikipedia community needs to be respectful of this fact and change the name of this page to her birth name, or the birth name she has shown she wants to be known by - Mercedes Vernado - at the earliest possible opportunity. 78.149.25.202 (talk) 16:00, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

We have a rule called WP:COMMONNAME where were use whatever name is most commonly used in sources. If you want to demonstrate that "Mercedes Vernado" is now the common name, go ahead. — Czello 16:04, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I would point you to her social media profiles on both Instagram and Twitter for starters.

That is the name she clearly wants to be known by, or are we saying that Wikipedia doesn't respect the subject's wishes? 78.149.25.202 (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't override WP:COMMONNAME. — Czello 16:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

So you're saying Wikipedia policy takes precedence over the subject of the article stating by their actions - changing the name on their social media profiles, going by a different name in another intenrationally-known professional wrestling company, etc - the name they want to be known by? 78.149.25.202 (talk) 16:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Broadly, yes. There are some exceptions, but in this case we use whatever name they're most notable under. — Czello 16:39, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

OK, here's a thought experiment; If I'm a public figure and I say 'Call me James', you would call me James.

That doesn't prevent Wikipedia from also noting that my name at birth was Melissa, or David, or whatever, or that I have previously publicly been known by the name Jasmine, does it?

Mercedes Varnado has been away from WWE for over the six month period cited in WP:COMMONNAME. In that time, she has changed her names on her Instagram and Twitter accounts, which have 5.8 million and 2.4 million followers respectively, has given numerous interviews under the name Mercedes Varnado, and has been going by her married name in NJPW, another internationally-known professional company with a global audience, for over two months now, where, per WP:COMMONNAME, she has also "won some award", as she's the reigning IWGP Women's Champion. 78.149.25.202 (talk) 16:55, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

You make some good points, but ultimately there still needs to be a demonstration that Sasha Banks is no longer the most common name (what she calls herself on social media isn't really relevant - we give precedence to independent sources). That said, I am willing to accept that the article name should be changed if this is successfully demonstrated. Small point: if her article name were to change, it would more likely be to Mercedes Moné rather than Varnado, as her ring name is likely to be more prevalent than her surname. — Czello 17:22, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree, but as you said, there is also many others factors. As RadioKAOS said in other talk page, pro wrestling usually pushes current events. Moné is the current name, yes. But I feel that, under an historical sense (working for WWE for years and being one of the most relevant figures during the Women's revolution), she is best known as Sasha Banks. I always ask myself, if the wrestler retires tomorrow (or sadly, dies), which name is the common name.--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I always ask myself, if the wrestler retires tomorrow (or sadly, dies), which name is the common name. This is a good rule of thumb to go by. — Czello 20:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I have seen many moves over the years. One decade ago, Low Ki was changed to Kaval because he was wrestling for WWE for some time. One week later, he left WWE, so back to Low Ki. When the IIconics left WWE, the name was changed. Six months later, they retired, so back to the common name. Admin Lee Vilenski asked if Brodie Lee is the common name, since Luke Harper had more exposure (again, he sadly passed away after the move). Now, reports state that Sarray is leaving WWE. So, I assume back to the old name. Again, I think we should think from an historical point of view. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

She has just appeared in Chapter 22 (Season 3, Episode 6) of 'The Mandalorian', having appeared last season too, both times credited as 'Mercedes Varnado'.

Furthermore, she has performed in NJPW, where she is the reigning Woman's Champion, since the start of the year under her married name 'Mercedes Mone'.

The Star Wars Universe is objectively far bigger, more popular and more widely-known than the WWE Universe. Appearing in a Star Wars property has given Varnado exposure ot a far wider audience, and they will be searching for her using the name she us credited under.

Varnado has not appeared in WWE for nearly a year now, and the only place that still refers to her as 'Sasha Banks' is WWE. Others, depending upon if it is an entertainment publication or a wrestling publication, are calling her either Varnado or Mone. For example, here is Wrestling Inc. referring to her as Mercedes Mone - https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1249417/mercedes-mone-makes-unexpected-return-to-the-mandalorian-in-season-3/ while The Daily Mail (the most popular news website in the UK, with a growing presence in the USA too) refers to her as Mercedes Varnado here - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11806425/Mercedes-Varnado-dons-ECCENTRIC-jumpsuit-Mandalorian-season-three-premiere-Hollywood.html - and here is Variety also referring to her as Mercedes Varnado - https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/mercedes-varnado-uta-1235532299/.

Clearly then, Varnado has moved on and, not only now wants to be known as versions of her name, but also is known as Mercedes Mone or Mercedes Varnado. The articles I reference state that yes, she is widely known for her time as Sasha Banks in WWE, but that time has passed and Varnado/Mone has made it clear that she will be known as Mercedes Varnado for her modelling and acting work going forward.

As much as we may all be wrestling fans here, professional wrestling is a niche interest. Only wrestling fans know her as Mercedes Mone.

This page's title needs to be changed to 'Mercedes Varnado'.

Ultimately, Ms Varnado's wishes should be respected. It is disrespectful to consider Wikipedia's policies, which are now applied consistently it has to be said, to take precedent over the wishes of the subject of the page. 78.149.25.202 (talk) 20:00, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Her ring name is now Mercedes Moné. Having it as anything else is eithe rpettiness or fandom 173.68.3.84 (talk) 19:02, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@HHH Pedrigree: Her ring name is Mercedes Mone. She could be called Giggles McWacky and people would still know who she is. I would be in favour of a move. Sources writing about her matches in Japan will refer to her under her new ring name. They should anyways. Mr. C.C.^{Hey yo!}_{I didn't do it!} 17:27, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME " it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) ". Per previous discussion on Paige, @Robertsky: said "we typically wait for at least 3-6 months before requesting for a page move, some also would wait until the subject has participated in a season or won some award". As I pointed, she is best known as Sasha Banks, 90% part of the sources used in the article call her Sasha Banks. As Mone, it's the name she got today. As Varnado, she isn't notable enough as Actress. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:47, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

To this point, Mercedes Vernado has been away from WWE for over six months now, and has been referred to by the name she has shown she wishes to be known by - Mercedes Vernado - in multiple interviews and public appearances since she and Trinity Fatu left the company.

To claim that appearing in a globally-recognised franchise like Star Wars as 'Mercdedes Vernado' "isn't notable enough" is clearly a very disingenious comment too. 78.149.25.202 (talk) 16:05, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

While a credit or two in a major film isn't an automatic notion of a "notable figure", Sasha Banks is one of the most successful wrestlers ever. Based on your username, you're a wrestling fan. You know that she's in the top 25 of women's wrestlers all-time. That's true on her recognition, her accolades, awards, revenue generated, any metric we need to discuss. So let's drop the whole "not a notable figure". Most people don't know who Mac Jones is in 2023, but he's a notable football figure. Most people don't know who Francisco Lindor is in 2023, but I don't think we'd sit here and say "he's not a notable figure". I just don't understand this "notable figure" metric we're gauging here.

Secondly, the idea that this Wikipedia:COMMONNAME rule is preventing Mercedes from being recognized by her current professional name doesn't make any sense and is actively resulting in the article being false. While people may be incorrectly still referring to her by her previous professional name of "Sasha Banks", Wikipedia should be taking the step forward in this case and in all wrestling-articles by using major wrestling personalities to reflect their most recent ring names, especially if they're still active wrestlers. Zacharymahabir (talk) 17:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

@HHH Pedrigree @Czello Zacharymahabir (talk) 17:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

As I pointed in every discussion, Wikipedia is for every kind of reader, including non-wrestling fans. For me, the name of the article should be the most common, known name (which usually, it's from some big promotion like WWE, but there are several exceptions, like Low Ki). If some big name like The Undertaker or Sting changes his name, should we ignore his 30 years under that name? I have seen many articles changed back and fourth based just in recentism, since pro wrestlers change the name in a short time period. The IIconics are better known by their time in WWE. After their release, people changed the names to the new ones, with Impact. A few months later, they retired, so... well, the WWE names are by far more notable than the Impact names. If she changes her name again, people will ask for a name change again. If she return to WWE, people will ask for Sasha Banks again. If she retires and become an actress, people will ask again. That's the eternal circle, asking for the current name, not the notable one. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:46, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

That's fine. That's how WP:NAMECHANGES works. "If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." 162 etc. (talk) 20:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

We have this discussion literally every time a wrestler moves companies, which as happened a lot in the past year or two. As always, WP:COMMONNAME applies for now. I'm sure we'll probably return to this discussion in about 6 months time, but as HHH says even current sources are calling her Sasha Banks. — Czello 17:54, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:21, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

It strikes me that there are only two people arguing for the name to remain 'Sasha Banks' - Czello and HHH Predigree.

Essentially then, they are using their status as moderators and 'trusted' editors to enforce their will, thereby meaning edits on certain aspects of this page are prevented until next year.

Otherwise, the consensus is that the name of this page needs to be changed to either 'Mercedes Varnado' or 'Mercedes Mone'.

I suppose the question that needs to be asked then is why has discussion on the title of this page effectively been shut down by Czello and HHH Predigree's circular, consistently pro-WWE argument, effectively hold this page hostage? 92.30.160.212 (talk) 23:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

By the way, if you Google 'Sasha Banks' now, the headline results are for 'Mercedes Varnado, American professional wrestler' and showcase her Instagram and her imdb entry, both of which are under her real name. 92.30.160.212 (talk) 13:04, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Bleacher Report (major sports web site with a very actively written WWE section) refers to Vernado as Mercedes Moné in a recent article describing an interview with her longtime friend Bayley, and only refers to her WWE ring name as follows: “Wrestling under the name Sasha Banks, Moné was both Bayley's greatest ally and rival, as many of the greatest moments of their respective careers took place together.” (source: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10081675-logan-paul-talks-scary-ricochet-spot-bayley-on-njpw-wwe-rumors-on-tyler-breeze) Her old ring name is clearly stated exclusively in the past tense. I don’t think any serious wrestling fan at this point is unaware of her having left WWE and using another ring name, and most non wrestling fans who’ve ever heard of her will mostly know her under her acting or modeling credits under her real name. It takes a tremendous WWE-centric POV, bordering on original research, to assert that her most commonly used wrestling name at this point is Sasha Banks. 216.170.137.3 (talk) 04:55, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

She's gone by Mercedes Moné in New Japan for over 9 months now. Much longer than 3 to 6 months. It's time to change the name of the page. Either name the page "Mercedes Moné" or her real name "Mercedes Vernado" similar to how Paige's page was changed to "Saraya Bevis" RyanConnell5150 (talk) 16:09, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Why? There is no need. Google gets 26 million results for Sasha Banks, just 2 millions for Mercedes Moné. Also, I know how this goes. The name is changed, she changes the name again and people will ask for a name change over and over and over... she cames back to WWE and people says "but she has used Sasha Banks for the majority of her career. Also, Google has more results for Banks..." --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:14, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

She's not going to go back to WWE. She's not gone by "Sasha Banks" in a very long time. At the very least the page should be changed to her real name like Saraya Bevis. RyanConnell5150 (talk) 04:00, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

IIconics to IInspiration.

Luke Harper to Brodie Lee.

Dean Ambrose to Jon Moxley.

Paige to Saraya Bevis.

Naomi to Trinity (wrestler)… left literally the same time Mercedes did, no less.

These are all wrestlers who had long stints in WWE, left, and had their page names changed swiftly to reflect new ring names. The IIconics was switched back once they retired, the others remain with their post-WWE names today, including Brodie Lee’s after his passing.

I honestly don’t get why Mercedes is getting singled out for the “her page must be referred to by her WWE name” treatment. This simply is not the normal standard for famous wrestlers when they leave companies and change their ring name. 2601:640:C982:1A20:4483:26B5:A9EE:66C9 (talk) 00:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

name change

change the wiki name to mercades moné? 92.40.192.78 (talk) 17:19, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 14 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:37, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

---

Sasha Banks → Mercedes Moné – Per WP:NAMECHANGES. When I closed the RM at Talk:Saraya Bevis – which was a sui generis closure – I noted that when wrestlers change their ring names as a result of leaving and/or joining WWE, RMs typically go with their new ring names if a certain amount of time has passed. Varnado has not wrestled for WWE for nearly two years now. As a high-profile signing to AEW (high-profile enough to warrant a Dynamite special episode all for her, at any rate), Varnado has already received press coverage in the past few weeks and especially the past couple of hours and from a cursory glance at Google News, the uptake of her new ring name as the primary way to refer to her (albeit with a one-time "f.k.a. Sasha Banks in WWE") seems to be already established. Sceptre (talk) 02:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, the prevalence of "Sasha Banks" has diminished since her departure from WWE, and it is right to change the article name to Mercedes Mone'. 2604:3D09:927F:E900:393F:784E:ADD4:22FD (talk) 03:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Support – When mainstream sources such as Sports Illustrated and Fox primarily refer to her as Mercedes Moné, it's time to change the article title. Agree with nom. Emma Coop · Talk · Contributions 07:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Abstain - Can't decide whether to rename to Mercedes Mone or retain the Sasha Banks name. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 08:43, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per the OP and Emma Coop's reply. ItsMarkWbu (talk) 13:51, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Support, ring names are always tricky but when the person in question is still active and using their real name (or a variation thereof) I'd lean towards moving. McPhail (talk) 13:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per Emma Coop. I was sceptical when this discussion happened last time (exactly a year ago, in fact) but I think we've now gotten to the point where the common name is Mercedes. — Czello ^(music) 13:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, @Czello, you were so 'sceptical', in fact, that you and @HHH Pedrigree have effectively held this page hostage for the last year by putting a block on the title of it being changed...

This page should have been changed to 'Mercedes Mone' long ago and it is a disgrace that two people put in position by Wikimedia to ensure fairness unilaterally took it upon themselves to shut down any discussion re. changing the name from 'Sasha Banks' and lock the page, particluarly when, even a year ago, the number of people calling for the page's title to be changed outstrupped those who wanted it to remain unchanged. 78.149.20.37 (talk) 14:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Neither of us 'locked the page', and neither of us were 'put in position by Wikimedia' – we're regular editors. Every single person on Wikipedia is capable of voicing an opinion during a discussion, and none hold more weight than others. I even said in the discussion above I was willing to be convinced that Sasha Banks was no longer the WP:COMMONNAME, but that didn't materialise. I've changed my opinion because it now has done. And as for your last sentence, please see WP:VOTE. — Czello ^(music) 14:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

First of all, neither Czello or myself have any kind of power here. No arguments were given besides "it's the name she is using right now". Many of the moves are based on WP:RECENTISM, not WP:COMMONNAME. One year ago, Naomi left WWE and people asked the article to be ranamed as Trinity. One year later, Naomi came back to WWE and no one is asking for the Trinity name. Same with Mercedes. If she decided to came back to WWE and use Sasha Banks again, people will ask for the Sasha Banks name again, forgetting the Moné ringname in a few weeks. Now, she has signed with the second promotion in USA and probably, second worldwide and, as pointed, mainstream sources call her Moné. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:08, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per the OP and Emma Coop's reply. Mercedes Mone is starting to become her more widely used name across promotions and various media. - K-popguardian (talk) 06:54, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES. 162 etc. (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Championships & Accomplishments

She won the comedy belt on Wild N Out Season 12 Episode 10. Gochyooh (talk) 09:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Creative control

Can someone please mention about her creative control? she openly admitted to it 2A00:23C4:2298:2D01:552D:7EF3:DD58:665A (talk) 14:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any sources for this? — Czello ^(music) 14:25, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

[1] here HHH Pedrigree (talk) 15:16, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Can it please be added in then? 2A00:23C4:2298:2D01:99FE:BBE9:950B:AF80 (talk) 10:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)