Talk:Mercosur/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mexico is not an associate

Is an observer waiting for approval to associate — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kardrak (talk • contribs) 13:00, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

History

some personal notes for those looking for history...

The Treaty of Asuncion The objective of the treaty is clearly expressed on the first article: “The States Parties hereby decide to establish a common market, which shall be in place by 31 December 1994 and shall be called the Common Market of the Southern Cone (Mercosur).” The Treaty lays down a date where an effective common market will take place. It indicates that the regime established in Asuncion is transitory, not instantaneous. The treaty lays down the rules for this transition period to be accomplished by the following convention to take place in 4 years. Of its main provisions the treaty listed four instruments to form the common market: 1) The trade liberalization program for virtual elimination of tariffs: The Treaty of Asuncion set forth a program of progressive trade liberalization among the four countries that had been implemented since its entry into force in 1991. That program was concluded on December 1998 for Brazil and Argentina and on December 1999 for Paraguay and Uruguay. “From 1991 to 1994, 95% of intra-regional trade was liberalized, with the virtual elimination of tariff and non-tariff barriers” . 2) The Common External Tariff (CET): It’s the basic element of a customs union, which establishes the level of tariff protection imposed on third country’s products to enter into the integrated market. 3) The coordination of macroeconomics politics in fields like foreign trade, fiscal and monetary policies, foreign exchange and capital movements, among others. 4) The adoption of sectoral agreements: they are specialized sectors that work to facilitate and reinforce the integration process. The Treaty also set out the organizational structure for the transition period : The Council of the Common Market (CCM) The Common Market Group (CMG)

The Protocol of Ouro Preto On December 1994 the Protocol of Ouro Preto was signed ending the period of transition of Mercosur. From this date on, Mercosur has its own definitive institutional structure to negotiate its way to the Common Market. Besides that, the Protocol of Ouro Preto establishes the judicial personality of Mercosur, which gives power to negotiate – as a regional group – international agreements. The main aspects defined by the Protocol of Ouro Preto are: 1) The judicial nature of the organizations of Mercosur and the decision-making system: Mercosur has an intergovernmental structure, that is, the governments negotiate among themselves, not existing a supranational authority (organization). The decisions are always made by consensus. There isn’t the possibility of vote. 2) The organization: new organizations are created and most of the transitory ones of the Treaty of Asuncion remained. 3) Reinforcement of laws: since its laws do not have direct application to its member-states, each state has to implement measures to incorporate laws. 4) The judicial personality: it recognized Mercosur’s judicial personality of international law, which makes possible to the member-states be represented as a group in the international arena. 5) Official language: Portuguese and Spanish are the official languages. The work documents are to be elaborated in the language of the country hosting the meeting.

Free trade

Customs Union is also not a very good description. RTA (Regional Trade Agreement) is what the PhD's I read (while I try to get mine ;) refer to it as. Here are a couple references: Author: Duina, Francesco G., Title: The social construction of free trade : the European Union, NAFTA, and MERCOSUR / Francesco Duina. Published: Princeton,N.J.Princeton University Press, c2006. Author: Porrata-Doria, Rafael A. Title: MERCOSUR : the common market of the southern cone / By Rafael A. Porrata-Doria, Jr. Published: Durham, N. C. : Carolina Academic Press, c2005. —Preceding unsigned comment added by La Ley (talk • contribs)

Bolivia as a full member in the future

According to local media sources (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/12/19/um/m-01110401.htm), Mercosur's observer in Bolivia's election Carlos "Chacho" Alvarez is planning to propose that Bolivia become a full member.

It looks to me like Bolivia has been a member since 1996 (http://www.sice.oas.org/ctyindex/bol/BOLagreements_e.asp). My Spanish is poor and my Portuguese non-existent, so I can't dig deeper into this, unfortunately: wish I knew the truth about this!

Free Movement

Argentina does NOT charge a fee to MERCOSUR citizens, nor does any of the members. That is just plain incorrect. In fact, a recently approved resolution (18/2008) states that even passports are no longer needed. National IDs are enough. Here's the source (in spanish) http://www.mercosur.int/msweb/Normas/normas_web/Decisiones/ES/2008/DEC_018_ES_Documentos%20de%20Viaje.doc 190.55.81.224 (talk) 02:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not a trade bloc, and it's more than a FTZ: It's a Customs Union

This really needs to be clarified, because this page is simply misleading as it is. MERCOSUR has a common external tariff. This joint consession of political power onto MERCOSUR from the member states -in addition to a future popularly elected Parliament, a single position in the WTO and a (at least theoretical) pact to negotiate trade as one unit - makes MERCOSUR much more than a FTZ or a trade bloc.

The wiki page on trade blocs also makes this clear, as it lists MERCOSUR beneath the CSN. Additionally, the page on Customs Unions accurately lists MERCOSUR as such.

For the above reasons, I've changed the opening paragraph to recognize MERCOSUR as a CU. If you still feel this is not accurate, I'd be happy to provide an ample list of sources that susbstantiate this.--Puck85 21:13, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

It is known, amongst economist that, nominally, it is the objective (or aim) of Mercosur to be a Customs Union, but in practice, at least until now, it has not fully achieved it. Just to give an example, Uruguay signed in 2004 an exclusive FTA with Mexico; so either Mercosur does not act as a unit to negotiate trade, or it allows individual-member preferential TAs as long as they are FTAs, which is even worse. If Mercosur is a full CU, then Argentina, Brazil and Paraguay are in disadvantage; whatever Mexico exports to Uruguay under their FTA can be exported directly and tariff-free to the rest of Mercosur (a true CU has no border checkpoints for internal trade: that's the whole purpose of a CU, to facilitate internal trade, where the common external tariff is the necesssary condition, but not the end in itself).

Let me explain; an FTA is an alternative to a CA (not a higher degree of integration, as it is sometimes wrongly assumed). FTAs promote the same tariff-free trade amongst the member countries, but allows each one of them to establish their own external tariffs with non-member countries. Under NAFTA; for example, Mexican products can be shipped freely to the US and Canada (and viceversa), but Mexico still has the right to restrict (or open) trade with countries with which the US opens (or restricts) trade (e.g. with Cuba or Uruguay). While this seems a superb idea, it poses problems: if Mexicans import tariff-free, say beef, from Uruguay, under the Mex-Uru FTA, it might be shipped again tariff-free to the US under NAFTA, a country that restricts Uruguayan trade. The only way to prevent this is to set up border inspections and rules of origin for the products. The EU, which is probably the only full CU in practice, tried to minimize internal trade related costs (non-tariff), time lost at checkpoints and the paperwork associated with rules of origin. The only way to do so was to establish a common external tariff, which in turn means that no single member can negotiate PTAs or FTAs with any non-member; they all act as a single entity in ALL negotiations, be it WTO or individual TAs. Once a product enters the EU through any port, it does not have to go through any border inspection at all, (or any border for that matter!), and can be shipped as freely as any other product is shipped from the Province of Buenos Aires to the Province of Córdoba: it functions as a full CU.

Mercosur fails to act as a single entity by allowing their members to negotiate FTAs independently (either privately or as a precondition to become an associate member of the bloc). There cannot be a common external tariff as long as Uruguay has a FTA with Mexico. It is also the case that Brazil has signed PTAs with Mexico in certain areas (mainly in the automotive sector). Moreover, Mercosur restricts trade amongst member countries in sensitive areas, mainly through VERs (voluntary export restraints) or VRA (voluntary restraint agreements). Brazil and Argentina have done so several times. And, to be honest with you, I do not know if Mercosur does negotiate in WTO as a bloc or not. I do know that the EU negotiates under the "European Communities" [1], but at least, until know and as far as I know, Mercosur members negotiate independently (there is no "Mercosur Communities" bloc).

True, you are right in saying that Mercosur is more than a mere FTA today; and aims to be much more in the future (with the eventual creation of a Parliament), but, at least technically today, and in practice, it is not a full CU yet.

--Alonso 05:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right to point out that Mercosur has a flawed custioms union, but nothing (not even the "model" that the EU provies) is an ideal type. This wiki certainly deserves several sections on the flaws and gaps in Mercosur and its CU, but when defining what Merosur is and what it aspires to become, we cannot say that it is a FTZ, as this site used to state. If we read the Treaty of Asunción, we find that the phrases FTZ and FTA are never used. Ouro Preto, which expanded upon Asunción, also never mentions such terminology. To have defined Mercosur as something that it is not and does not aspire to be was incorrect. While Mercosur justly earns its reputation as a "flawed customs union," it is still the single most successful customs union among "third world" blocs.

I'm sorry to disagree with you in almost all your arguments. As I tried to explain before, the purpose of the CU is to simplify inter-regional trade by having no chekpoints at the borders of all members, which can only happen if nothing needs be checked (that is, all products flow freely, ergo, free trade). Therefore it makes no sense for a CU to exist if the bloc is not also an FTA. Even if Mercosur defines itself as a CU, this is preconditioned to the existence of an FTA. That is, if Mercosur is a CU it must be an FTA (see customs union). Therefore there is nothing wrong in saying that Mercosur is an FTA. In either case, it could be said that Mercosur is a theoretical CU that funcions as a FTA in many matters. Actually the way that Mercosur defines itself is as a "Common Market" (which obviously implys CU and FTA, whether they are flawed or not).

Secondly, the model of the EU is the prefect customs union: there are no checkpoints for inter-regional trade, all members have agreed on a common external tariff including FTAs with non members, and all members negotiate everything (related to trade) as a bloc. What are they missing? Sure, negotiations have been bumpy, but they are functioning as a full CU. That has not been the case with Mercosur: Uruguay has signed an FTA with Mexico. Moreover, with VRAs, Mercosur is not even allowing free trade, but that is another story.

Thirdly, Mercosur is not the most successful customs union amongst third world nations; other successful CUs are the Economic and Monetary Community of Central Africa, the Southern African Customs Union and the West African Economic and Monetary Union amongst others. From these three SACU is the most successful CU amongst third world nations, and the oldest in the world, having been implemented since 1910.

--Alonso 03:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Your assesment of SACU is as interesting as it is unestablished. The WTO itself has stated that Mercosur has the most solid CU outside of Eurpoe (that's not to say that isn't heavily flawed). For readings on this, I'd reccomend the works of Mercedes Botto at FLACSO and the University of Buenos Aires. Generally speaking, I think you're inventing arguments that I haven't made or even implied. I never wrote that Mercosur is not a FTA. I wrote that to state it as such is "misleading." I never said the CU was perfect or complete (isn't it also presumpuous to redefine an incomplete process simply because it isn't complete yet?).

I truely don't mean to offend, but to say that the EU's CU is "perfect" shows little regard for the principles of social sciences. Here's one grotesque imperfection off the top of my head: Last Fall's WTO agricultural debates featured France and a short list of other nations that wanted to take a harsher line against US policy than the rest of Eurpoe. Untill you refine such language and reference literature establishing that political scientists do not call Mercosur a CU, I suggest that you move on or use your criticisms constructivly. Making a heading about Mercosur's flaws on this Wiki would be a start.--Puck85 19:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are missing the whole point; my criticism has never been destructive, and if you have felt it that way, it might be due that we are talking about apple and oranges here, or that you are talking the discussion into a personal level. I am not a political scientist, therefore I do not know whether the political science, as an academic discipline, describes CUs in qualitative and subjective ways. (I doubt it). But I am an economist, and as such, I am a social scientist, and I do show regard for the principles of my profession. They way the discipline of economics (or international economics) describes a CU is quite simple: an FTA in which all members agree to have a common external trade policy (i.e. tariffs) to avoid internal inspection of traded goods amongst members. This is a positive statement or definition, not a qualitative and subjective one. The EU is the perfect CU (a positive argument vs. a normative argument) in that the definition of a CU applies to the EU: it is an FTA with a common external policy. Simple. France might want to take a harsher stand against US policy, but all members must agree to it, in the same way as Florida wants to maintain higher agricultural subsidies (e.g. sugar) but the US as a federation of 50 states, has to agree to it. Neither France, nor Florida can set up trade policies unilaterally. Therefore, EU functions, in all aspects, as the "perfect" customs union. All requierements for an CU (FTA and common external policy) are met. I do not understand your grotesque (sic) imperfection. This is not the case with Mercosur given the reasons expounded above (related to the VRAs amgonst Brazil and Argentina and the unilateral FTAs of Uruguay). I will not repeat myself in that explanation. As for SACU, I would recommend you to read literature on it, or at least the English wiki article (see: Southern African Customs Union), but please note that SACU is a CU, while Mercosur aims to become a Common Market and therefore has set up stronger supranational institutions to meet that goal, which would explain your (unreferenced, too) comment on WTO saying that Mercosur is a strong bloc. I would also prefer that you avoid ad hominem criticism. If you insist, then at least give me the courtesy of pointing out (1) a comment where my languange was not refined, and (2) a comment that was a desctructive criticsm.--Alonso 23:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Just a quick comment, it is not true that i.e Uruguay can import something from i.e mexico and then re-export it to the Mercosur, there are rules about the origin of the merchandises. If goods have more than certain amount of components extra-zone they will pay taxes. Like for example bicycles made in Uruguay are not imported without arancel into Argentina, since they have components made in china.

Martin1homas 01:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You are right Martin: there are rules of origin. But custom unions should not have rules of origin. The main purpose of creating a CU instead of an FTA is to allow free movement of material amongst the member states, without the hassle of setting up rules of origin. If rules of origin are necessary, then a CU is no different from a simple FTA, because there is, in fact, no common foreign policy, no customs (tariff) union. --the Dúnadan 15:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Chile's reasons to avoid full membership of Mercosur

I deleted a reason arguing that Chile hadn't take part of Mercosur as full member (territorial disputes with Argentina).

Chile hadn't joined the Mercosur in the late 90's cause the country had lower and uniform import taxes (aranceles aduaneros) than the alliance (Mercosur was born as a customs alliance and not as FTA). Also monetary politics and exchange rates politics differed.

After the asiatic economic crisis Chile argued another reason to not join the agreement: Chilean economy es very small compared with argentinian and brazilian ones and could suffer their influence during the crisis. As example Uruguay was terribly affected by Argentina's economical colapse of these last years. Paraguay also was affected by this crisis and brazilian instabilty.

Baloo rch 00:50, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Source for new associate members: BBC News Online 8 July 2004 Secretlondon 00:57, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This is right --Guillermog 19:05, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

However other news sources just say Venezuela - but they are dated earlier. No info on official Mercosur web site. Secretlondon 01:23, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It should be also noted that the USA has made numerous efforts into "converting" Chile to the NAFTA, if only to prevent a Pacific opening to the countries of Mercosur.LtDoc 22:20, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Mercosur not a Free Trade Zone?

The article implies that Mercosur is a free trade zone - however if Argentina is putting duties on Brazilian goods then surely it isn't? Secretlondon 00:59, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This is right too --Guillermog 19:05, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It must be seen not as a pure trade zone, there are several restrictions, although trade is significant anyway. And it has a common minimum external tariff.

Martin1homas 01:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Article needs immediate attention

Hi. I've just read the article and, well I'm sorry but it doesn't look so good. It's superficial, very incomplete and, as it stands right now, it's of no help for anyone who wishes to understand how the agreement works (and how it came to be). At the very least, this should be listed as a stub. And that final paragraph about the "merge" with the Andean Community is just plain wrong. The paragraph implies that both entities ceased to exist and a third one appeared to replace them both, which was certainly not the case. All they did was sign a cooperation agreement and a letter of intentions for a future (sine diem) negotiation to integrate all the subcontinent (which would most likely occur under the flag of the Mercosur, anyways). Regards, Redux 00:41, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

---

"It has a south and central America integration vocation."

This makes no sense and the linked-to articles seem completly irrelevant. - 28 November 2005

Venezuela status

Please pay attention to the status of Venezuela, it is not yet full member, it is what in spanish is called "estado parte en proceso de adhesión". That means that it its begining the process to become member. Barcex 13:54, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

And hopefully, will never become as long as the oil entrepreneur-dictator hugo chavez is still in charge...

I believe Venezuela has joined now. What is the real status? If yes, the article is not updated at all.

Ratification by Paraguayan Senate is still pending. Salut, --IANVS (talk | cont) 13:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Guaraní as official language: probably in Mercosur, probably not in Bolivia

Checking the apparently informed Oficialidad del guaraní part of Guaraní Portal from the University of Mainz, it seems that Guaraní has become an official language of Mercosur, but it is not an official language at Bolivia -though in Bolivia there are intense political developments as to the status of the indigenous populations. But I do not actually speak Spanish (that section's of the portal language) to be 100% sure. Please check the information. --Michkalas 00:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Based on that link it seems guaraní will become an official language in Mercosur. It is co-official with Spanish in Paraguay and in the Argentinian province of Corrientes. --Alonso 02:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. I have found something in English:

“ Real World Radio (RWR)

Guarani to be Declared MERCOSUR’s Official Language

23/11/2006 - News

MERCOSUR’s Ministers of Culture approved a request of the Paraguayan government for Guarani language to be declared as the third official language of the regional block, along with Spanish and Portuguese. MERCOSUR’s members are Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay and Venezuela.

The resolution will be presented at the postponed MERCOSUR meeting, which will be held on January 18th and 19th in Brasilia city, Brazil.

As was expressed at the ministerial meeting, the initiative aims to “the integration of the region’s traditional communities”. The adoption of the language will require the simultaneous translations of the MERCOSUR’s official documents. Guarani was declared official language in Paraguay in 1992. It is estimated that 7 million people in the region speak this language. Paraguayan organizations have been demanding this for several months, trough a campaign that included thousands of signatures and messages, which were sent to the block’s presidents.

Sources: Prensa Indígena

”

[2]

So we have to follow the subject and see what happens. --Michkalas 13:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I dont think so. If Guarani was to be accepted in Mercosul as official language so would all the native languages in Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and it would make this impossible. I dont think "Prensa Indígena" could be classified as a impartial source of information. I am not stating that it should or should not be included as an official language, I am just saying that this should not be included in the article because it is not true, at least yet, and i dont think it will.Alvaroludolf 13:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The difference between the Amerindian languages of Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay is that none of them is co-official at the national level with Spanish. Guaraní is an official language of Paraguay.--the Dúnadan 03:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

What Amerindian languages of Uruguay are you exactly talking about? Seriously, the genocide of natives in this country happened more than a century ago, do some research before saying things, it sounds uneducated.--201.217.135.37 06:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed a good point but I still doubt it will happen and we still need an impartial source for this possibility. As important the Guarani can be to Paraguay I don’t know if it have the same importance or expressiveness to the bloc as a whole but to be honest I am not very familiar with this subject in Paraguay either. Anyway we should only place it in the article if it becomes a real fact or a real possibility both with a reliable source of information. Alvaroludolf 13:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

True, the important thing is to wait and see if Mercosur has/will accept Guaraní. In your opinion it might not be important for the expressiveness, but in my case, I am familiar with the fact that the European Union has accepted all co-official languages of State members (e.g. Basque and Catalan). Importance is a tricky thing, and languages are, for the most part, the identity of a nation, a culture, a region, an ethnicity, within multi-cultural countries. --the Dúnadan 14:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Alvaroludolf, there is no reason to worry. As I wrote in my original comment, we will include something when there is a final decision. No news agency or newspaper or website is impartial. But Real World Radio was the only source in English. In Spanish/Castillian the issue was more widely covered.--Michkalas 15:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I'm brazilian and i have to say and probably you don't know that almost all native american languages in brazil are death.Even in the tribes the languages are not speak sometimes.Today they are trying to preserve the languages but is dificulty.The same thing happen with the european languages other than portuguese.The german and the italian languages for exemple.The only oficial language in all country is portuguese. In the case of Guarani is a language of paraguay the most part of the country's population speak the language.Augusto Fontes

It's not important how many people do speak a language to become official, but the status is given by officiality in one of the member states. Otherwise, why should Luxemburguese or Estonian be official in the European Union?

Venezuela

I know the executives have approved Venezuela's membership to Mercosur. But, has Venezuela's membership been already ratified by all legislatures of the member states, or is it still in the process? --the Dúnadan 16:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Still in process, Argentina and Uruguay have ratified, Paraguay and Brazil are still in process.Chico 01:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

In that case shouldn't Venezuela be shown in a different color to portray its status as an admitted but not ratified member? That is to say, until its membership is ratified Venezuela will not enjoy any of the benefits of being a member of Mercosur (e.g. same external tariffs, free movement of capital and labor, etc.). --the Dúnadan 15:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6633457.stm... Venezuela was represented in the parliament... which is member's only? And more should be said about the parliament if it's already been in place over a year now... right? The page makes it sounds like it's still 'in the works'. KiernansMommy (talk) 20:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

HDI of the bloc

I see that the "note" for the HDI figure for full and associate members simply states... "if Mercosur is considered a single entity". Is there a source for that? I haven't been able to find one source, and I am afraid the author simply added all HDI's of members and calculated an arithmetic mean.--the Dúnadan 15:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Fees in Argentina?

I'm not sure if you guys are citizens of any country member of Mercosur and have been to Argentina recently, but they sure don't charge us any fees, that 5 peso fee thing is really made-up, I travel to Argentina at least once a year and have been doing it for ages and I have never been charged a dime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.217.135.37 (talk) 06:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

True

Me neither, never been charged anything to go from Brazil to Argentina. 86.108.101.99 (talk) 12:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

GDP issue

I have just noticed that the number given in the article, is different from the actual one. Having taken a look at the List of countries by GDP (PPP), I have calculated myself GDP for all 4 member states to be $2.430576 . The article says it's $ 2.895 trillion. What might be the problem here? Am I missing something? --Ahnode (talk) 02:12, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Probably using old data or incorrect data. It would good to have an official source for the GPD but I checked Mercosur website and I can't find anything like that. So I say we just use the 2.43 trillion and have it cited with the WB link. By the way I removed {{reflist}}, it's not really good to use on a talk page as it can cause formatting problems. Cheers, --Patrick (talk) 03:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --Ahnode (talk) 11:18, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Link Argentina-Brazil began in the Falklands War

The article writes:"Mercosur origins trace back to 1985 when Presidents Raúl Alfonsín of Argentina and José Sarney of Brazil signed the Argentina-Brazil Integration and Economics Cooperation Program or PICE (Spanish: Programa de Integración y Cooperación Económica Argentina-Brasil, Portuguese: Programa de Integração e Cooperação Econômica Argentina-Brasil). [1]. The program also proposed the Gaucho as a currency for regional trade."

Well, the link between Argentina and Brazil began in the Falklands War. Even before the defeat, Argentina found support(includng weapons) to fight , in the Falklands War, in 1982. Defeated and in bankrupcy, Argentina opened and gave an end to its absurds wills in the South America. Even so, during the period between 1982 and 1990, Brazil remained a closed economy. Only after Fernando Collor took office, in March,1990 Mercosur could be created. Fernando Collor and anyone else created the Mercosur, because withut Brazil, the Mercosur would be senseless. Agre22 (talk) 13:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)agre22

Ethnic groups

Hi. What is the logic of including the ethnic breakdown of the bloc in the infobox? Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 10:30, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

60 % white! I see that many South Americans are still unable to accept their own reality. Anyway, what relevance is an ethnic breakdown in an article about a trade bloc? I think it should be removed.

Agreed. 187.20.205.58 (talk) 14:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. -- dúnadan : let's talk 17:22, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Name

Should the name of this article not be changed to Mercosur/Mercosul?Redhill54 (talk) 11:35, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Venezuela NOT a member!

Discussion of Venezuela was postponed to 2011 in the Paraguayan Senate: http://www.gazetadopovo.com.br/mundo/conteudo.phtml?tl=1&id=1076492&tit=Entrada-da-Venezuela-no-Mercosul-trava-no-Senado-paraguaio

Articule currently links to a piece and says Paraguay's senate approved Venezuela. NOT true. Piece is a "forecast" piece, not a report http://en.mercopress.com/2010/12/13/paraguay-finally-says-aye-to-venezuela-s-mercosur-full-membership

Mercosur's official website does NOT list Venezuela as a member. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.188.188.30 (talk) 18:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Falkland Islands

This article has some biased content. The map shows the Falkland Islands as a member part of this organization. The Falkland Islands should be marked white. They are a British colony, not a part of Argentina.Bill Pollard (talk) 09:03, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Nightmare

It's disgusting to see the Venezuealan dictatorship in Mercosul while democratic Paraguay is suspended. This is a nightmare. For years this South Americna leftists are turning the region into a nightmare. Awful. Embarrasing. --Lecen (talk) 12:18, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

This talk page is to discuss the Mercosur article, not about Mercosur itself. Cambalachero (talk) 12:53, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

map needs update

venezuela is now in--text is correct but the map is not! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.167.100 (talk) 14:21, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Refimprove

This article is still mostly uncited information; please leave the "refimprove" tag at the top until the issue has been addressed. Khazar2 (talk) 15:06, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Pics of Buenos Aires,São Paulo,Caracas,Montevio etc...

just pics of little cities??where is the pictures of the most important cities of Mercosur??São Paulo,Rio de Janeiro,Buenos aires,Montevideo,Mar del plata,assuncion???please dont think small!think BIG!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.35.216.175 (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Bolivianos

Hey homies. Wuz up. Anyways, do check Member states of Mercosur and keep an eye out for more stuff regarding Bolivia and Ecuador in the future. Especially Bolivia. (Butttman (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2012 (UTC)).

13 per cent of Mercosur population is black???

where this numbers come???argentinian black population is less than 3 per cent,brazilian black population is less than 8 per cent,uruguayan black population is less than 2 per cent and paraguayan and venezuelean population is less than 7 per cent !if none of this countries have the black population above 10 per cent how the mercosur population of blacks are 13 per cent???let´s do the right information ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.68.148.236 (talk) 12:45, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

About Mercosur, before editing the article

Because dynamic in the integration process, to adjust the structure of the block to change over time, the Common Market Council, annexed to the Treaty of Asuncion many additional protocols with time. To be valid, after receiving the signature of the presidents of the bloc, a general protocol must be approved by legislative decree in all signatory countries.[3][4] In total, 15 protocols have received this approval and will be enforced.

• Protocol of Las Leñas, 1992; Was determined that trials of a signatory country have the same judicial interpretation in another, without the approval of the judgment, which are subject all other judicial decisions in countries outside the block.[5]
• Protocol of Buenos Aires on International Jurisdiction in Contractual Matters, 1994;

Integration Protocol and Recognition Certificates, Bonds and Studies Elementary Level, Middle and Technical Education 1994;

• Protocol of Ouro Preto, 1994; Established the institutional structure of Mercosur, the increased participation of national parliaments and civil society. This was the protocol that gave the legal personality of Mercosur in international law, allowing its relationship with other countries, international organizations and economic blocs.[6]
• Protocol of Precautionary Measures, 1994;[7]
• Protocol for Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, 1996;[8]
• Protocol of San Luis about Civil Affairs liability for accidents between Member States of Mercosul, 1996;[9]
• Protocol of Educational Integration to Train Postgraduate Level Human. Resources between Countries Members to Mercosul, 1996;
• Protocol of Cultural Integration, 1996;
• Protocol of Educational Integration for continuing post graduate studies at the Universities of the Countries of Mercosul, 1996;
• Protocol of Ushuaia, 1998;[10]
• Protocol of Olivos, 2002; Brasilia Protocol improved by the creation of the Permanent Arbitration Court of Mercosur Review. The court came to review the reports issued by arbitration courts in case of dispute. Your referees are appointed for a period of two years with possibility of extension. The decisions of this court is binding on the States involved in disputes, which are not subject to appeals or reviews, and the countries involved, the judgment force exercise.[11]
• Protocol of Asunción on the Commitment with the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights of Mercosur, 2005;
• Constitutive Protocol of the Mercosur Parliament, 2005;

Some protocols have not received this approval and, therefore, are called not applicable protocols. However, other protocols approved by legislative decree were later improved, thus, its validity revoked:

• Protocol of Brasilia, 1991; It was repealed with the signing of the Protocol of Olivos in 2002. It changed the mechanism provided originally disputes Asuncion Treaty, provided that the use of legal channels for commercial dispultas possible solution. The use of recourse to arbitration in order to ensure the stability of regional trade and solidity stipulated. Definitions of terms, conditions to implement the advice of experts, the appointment of the arbitrators, the content of arbitral awards, notifications to cover the costs, among other provisions.[12]

Greetings. Ismael Silva Oliveira (talk) 18:17, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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I have just modified 7 external links on Mercosur. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.mre.gov.ve/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22996%3Ase-formaliza-adhesion-de-venezuela-al-mercosur-avance-&catid=363%3A072012-cumbre-mercosur&Itemid=527
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130115022952/http://america.infobae.com/notas/52348-Ciudad-de-Mexico-Buenos-Aires-y-San-Pablo-los-destinos-turisticos-favoritos to http://america.infobae.com/notas/52348-Ciudad-de-Mexico-Buenos-Aires-y-San-Pablo-los-destinos-turisticos-favoritos
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130508234931/http://www.diariobae.com/diario/2012/07/31/15462-entra-venezuela-al-mercosur-mas-fortaleza-en-energia-y-alimentos.html to http://www.diariobae.com/diario/2012/07/31/15462-entra-venezuela-al-mercosur-mas-fortaleza-en-energia-y-alimentos.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100729050433/http://www.universia.com.br/noticia/materia_clipping.jsp?not=20466 to http://www.universia.com.br/noticia/materia_clipping.jsp?not=20466
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=12181&formato=HTML
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131226072850/http://www.comercio.gob.ar/web/index.php?pag=60&btn=161 to http://www.comercio.gob.ar/web/index.php?pag=60&btn=161
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131024082112/http://www.mercosur.int/t_generic.jsp?contentid=3862&site=1&channel=secretaria&seccion=3 to http://www.mercosur.int/t_generic.jsp?contentid=3862&site=1&channel=secretaria&seccion=3
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131021041740/http://www.mercosur.int/t_generic.jsp?contentid=5564&site=1&channel=secretaria to http://www.mercosur.int/t_generic.jsp?contentid=5564&site=1&channel=secretaria

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outdated info.

either the map is out of date, the wiki page is, or both. at the very least, the map doesn't show peru, and the wiki page lists peru as a member state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.38.204 (talk) 18:40, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Article quality

This looks more like a "C" class article than a "B". --Forich (talk) 15:44, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Terminology about Venezuela's removal

The page states that Venezuela has been "permanently removed" however the wording used by the bloc itself is slightly different and states that Venezuela has been suspended "indefinitely". I know it's a small distinction but a distinction nonetheless. --2A02:C7D:7AE4:3300:6DC0:4D2C:3FD5:54B2 (talk) 04:20, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Mercosur common plates

I live in Brazil and despite all the international news about the new Mercosur plate, I have never seen them around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brunoff (talk • contribs) 14:55, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Population changes

The population data seems to be the same for the article before the removal of Venezuela and consideration of Bolivia, which can't be correct. 2601:46:4002:18E8:9DA6:F59:93F7:40DA (talk) 06:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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I have just modified 5 external links on Mercosur. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304033605/http://www.fundacionege.org/publicaciones/semanario/2011/06/12/Seccion1.html to http://www.fundacionege.org/publicaciones/semanario/2011/06/12/Seccion1.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.mercopress.com/vernoticia.do?id=12181&formato=HTML
• Added archive https://archive.is/20130422213755/http://www.senado.gov.br/noticias/OpiniaoPublica/inc/senamidia/notSenamidia.asp?ud=20110524&datNoticia=20110524&codNoticia=557851&nomeOrgao=&nomeJornal=Valor+Econ%C3%B4mico&codOrgao=47&tipPagina=1 to http://www.senado.gov.br/noticias/OpiniaoPublica/inc/senamidia/notSenamidia.asp?ud=20110524&datNoticia=20110524&codNoticia=557851&nomeOrgao=&nomeJornal=Valor+Econ%C3%B4mico&codOrgao=47&tipPagina=1
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110927084954/http://www.inwent.org/ez/articles/168821/index.en.shtml to http://www.inwent.org/ez/articles/168821/index.en.shtml

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Puerto Madero bs as.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:22, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

SUSPENDING VENEZUELA WAS A RIDICULOUS MOVE Leaving Venezuela apart means the block loses weight in negotiations. It has been ridiculous. The rest of the World is laughing at Mercosur, unfortunately.--213.60.237.52 (talk) 23:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• FTAMercosurEU.jpg

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Etymology

(For those who don’t speak Spanish:)

Mercosur, Spanish acronym of Mercado Común del Sur, Portuguese Mercosul, acronym of Mercado Comum do Sul, or Common Market of the South, South American regional economic organization.

Worth adding?

MBG02 (talk) 06:31, 31 December 2019 (UTC)