Talk:Metta Sandiford-Artest/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

Hey he's suspended this season but I'm pretty sure he's still being paid right now.hot (referring to 2004-2005 season)

Suspension History

I know Ron Artest has been suspended at least 8 times, can someone add a complete suspension history.

ESPN has one on their website. I'll try adding it if I have a chance. - Nat Krause 04:14, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I agree that there should be a Suspension History section ALSO from today's LATimes= "World Peace, formerly known as Ron Artest, earned a one-game suspension for his ejection last year in the waning seconds of Game 2 of the 2011 Western Conference semifinals against Dallas after delivering a clothesline to J.J. Barea. Artest earned an ejection in Game 2 of the 2009 Western Conference semifinals as a Houston Rocket after storming toward Bryant over an apparent elbow to his throat." http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-la-metta-world-peace-apologizes-for-ejection-doesnt-take-questions-20120422,0,1959363.story

Hard foul? Isn't it pretty much agreed that upon further review Artest didn't foul Wallace very hard?

No, it is not agreed. It was clearly a flagrant foul. RickK 06:48, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC) It wasnt a flagrant foul, that refers to someone being knocked to the ground or worse. "Two plays led to Artest's hard foul. With 6:43 remaining, Rip Hamilton threw a cheapshot elbow into Jamaal Tinsley's back after a defensive rebound (they called a foul as the Pacers bench erupted). That could have been a flagrant since it looked like Hamilton went out of his way to belt him. And with 1:25 remaining, down by 11 points, Wallace knocked Artest into the basket support while blocking his layup -- from the camera angle, you can't tell if it's a foul or not." - the Sports Guy | Salasks 07:17, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

It was clearly not a flagrant foul, because Wallace was BARELY knocked off balance and did not fall down. Bill Walton himself as a commentator during the game that "it wasn't that hard of a foul...Wallace can't just react that way." Rocky 16:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rock8591 (talk • contribs)

I did a revert to state that Artest asked for a month off because he was tired from promoting an R&B album for the group Allure on his new label, not "to promote his rap album" as the article stated.Ramsquire 20:20, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Also the language "bench clearing brawl" is a bit misleading since neither bench cleared and no one threw any punches, I edited it to say altercation. "Bench Clearing brawl" brings to mind baseball brawls, and old school hockey fights, which this clearly was not, until Artest ran into the stands.Ramsquire 20:24, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Birthdate discrepancy

There are 2 conflicting birthdates and birthplaces in this article...Ranma9617 08:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC) Insert non-formatted text here

New Album

we got any info on it? BIG Tuna 08:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Citation Needed

Though traded midseason to the struggling‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  Kings franchise, Artest quickly found his place on the team by providing some much needed defense.‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  --Villainone 23:55, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Dog of NBA Star Ron Artest Seized by Animal Services After Reports it Was Underfed

SACRAMENTO — Animal services officers seized a Great Dane from the mansion of Sacramento Kings star Ron Artest, saying the dog was underfed. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,250780,00.html Crocoite 22:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Further info on this topic "Dogs of Kings Forward Artest Have Been in Pound for 77 Nights Because of Poor Care"

LOOMIS — Dogs owned by Sacramento Kings forward Ron Artest have spent a total of 77 nights at the pound since July because of poor care by their owner, costing the NBA star $1,942 in boarding and impound fees, county records show. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,251084,00.html Crocoite 21:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Photo

I think it is totally inapproprate to have Artest's mugshot as the main photo and the only photo of him up there. Yes, he has had a few problems, but he is known first as a basketball player, not a criminal. Use the mugshots for the serial killers. Given a choice between having no photo and having his mugshot, I say you definitely have to go with no photo. Why? The insinuation of having that pic is that Artest is famous for being a criminal and that is untrue. He is notorious because he plays professional basketball and he has done and said many dumb things, but if he wasn't a basketball player, a very good basketball player, and he made those same comments, you wouldn't hear about it.

You're right, if he wasn't famous, you wouldn't hear about it, and he would be in prison.

Doubt he'll be in prison if he wasn't a celebrity, not like he did anything illegal off the court. He has a history of fights on the court, and flagrant fouls, but if he played in the 1980s physical league, he'd be considered a wuss. 24.136.40.99 (talk) 03:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I think it's fine to have the pic in the article, but it should be under the "Kings" section, where the incident that led to that mugshot being taken took place. I'm no expert on how these things work, but I'll check back here in a few days and if no one has provided a reason as to why this pic should stay up top, I'll figure out how to move it down to where it belongs. Maxterpiece 07:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Why does it say he is with the Lakers?

Rockets trade

Per source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/5914062.html

Due to the rumoured players involved, the deal can't be completed until August 14. If there's a rash of edits changing his team details, I have no problem with semi-protecting the article until the 14th. --Madchester (talk) 01:13, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Two more players are rumoured in the trade

Source: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5914719.html

Again, the trade details are still murky until it can be officially announced on August 14. --Madchester (talk) 15:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Ron Artest is a Houston Rocket now. The only reason the trade isn't "official" is because the NBA has a clause where you are forbidden to trade a drafted player within 30 days of the draft. That is why the NBA office won't approve the trade until August 14th. Neverthless, he is as much of a Rocket as Yao Ming or Tracy McGrady. To keep this page intact as if he was still on the Kings is 1) pointless and 2) a waste of time and 3)just going to annoy and confuse people :-\ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sag969 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

We adhere to WP:CRYSTAL; note the statement Avoid predicted sports team line-ups, which are inherently unverifiable and speculative. There's no guarantee the trade will be completed as is. We had similar problems with that Kidd trade to Dallas, with editors jumping to conclusions despite the league not approving the trade. We all know what happened when Devean George's contract clause kicked in.

The best we can do is state that Artest is in a pending trade; but we have to wait for it to be completed before changing team and roster details. --Madchester (talk) 18:12, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

No, its not the same as the Kidd trade. Kidd's trade was being scrutinized because it required a player coming out of retirement to complete it! In this trade, one of the players cannot be officially traded till a certain date. Once that date comes - August 14 - the trade will be "official." There is hardly any chance that the the trade really won't happen. To use that excuse in order to hold back information is not too smart. I'm not going to go ahead and get into some pointless back and forth argument with you about it. I just want you to realize that trying to hold back a wave of editors over a minor technicality is a waste of time - both yours and other editors.Sag969 (talk) 19:57, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The trade is unofficial until August 14. It's that simple. We don't change team or roster details of an unofficial transaction per WP:CRYSTAL. There's already a section listing the pending trade - that's the only way we can describe the situation at this stage. --Madchester (talk) 17:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Gender Bender

{{editsemiprotected}} He is not a she. That I know of. In the first paragraph: "...it's being reported that she might sign a deal..."—Preceding unsigned comment added by Spankypoo (talk • contribs) 19:24, July 2, 2009

Not done, I don't see any instances where Artest is referred to as she. That may have been a temporary error in a previous version. -Optigan13 (talk) 03:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Signing with Lakers

The team needs to be changed to the Los Angeles Lakers because he's reached a preliminary agreement which basically means he's already signed with them —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcbresnock4 (talk • contribs) 22:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Behavior

I'm surprised that the acknowledgement of his erratic behavior mentions nothing about his alleged bipolarity. If I remember the story correctly, he was diagnosed, refused to accept it or take the prescribed medication at first, but later did. Anyone want to research and add? Senor Vergara (talk) 00:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Artest's Witnessing Murder on Court

Turns out that this actually did happen, though whether or not Artest was there when it happened I can't know for sure. http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/15/nyregion/player-dies-in-stabbing-at-basketball-game.html?pagewanted=1 In case you are wondering, Artest also grew up in Queens, and would have been 12 when the incident occurred. The person who committed the stabbing was 16. SO it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Artest was there. Considering that he was a pretty good player, I would think it also quite possible that he would be friends with older players in the neighborhood. Crazy stuff. 71.42.216.227 (talk) 00:12, 1 May 2010 (UTC)Shan

Add his wife & kids his bio section please

Add to his biography :

Ron Artest and Kimsha Hatfield dated since 1994; they married in 2003. They have 3 children together:Sade, Ron 3, and Diamond(2003). From an affair with Filipina Jennifer Palma he had son Jeron Artest in 2001 (2001) . Thanks. 173.73.41.243 (talk) 23:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

No. 15

I checked on http://store.nba.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3325366&lmdn=Category and click on Select a current player, then clicked Ron Artest, it ended up having #15! No proof though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.50.125 (talk) 16:17, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Name change

I have no desire to see a repeat of the Ochocinco naming wars, but we shouldn't wait to make wholesale changes to this article at least until he actually does go through with the name change, or there's some evidence in reliable sources that people are actually calling him by the new name? According to the L.A. Times, he's only just filed for the change--the court hearing is August 26, and he hasn't even turned in the NBA paperwork yet.[1] Opinions?--Arxiloxos (talk) 01:39, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

No, wait until the court actually approves the name change before moving the article. I also think we should ask an admin to move protect it to prevent edit war.—Chris!_c/t 01:42, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

As with Ochocinco, we should wait even longer than that; we must wait until reliable sources start calling him by the new name regularly. Powers ^T 13:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

The court hearing has been rescheduled for September 16: [2] Zagalejo^^^ 23:04, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

He got the name change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.253.111.44 (talk) 18:36, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

OK, so how long should we wait until moving the page? I'll be honest - I think it'll save a lot of hassle if we just do it now. I didn't follow the Chad Ochocinco situation closely, but it looks like it was a huge mess. In the past, I've been a stickler for certain things related to NBA articles, like waiting until a transaction is officially announced before mentioning it on Wikipedia. But if Artest is officially known as Metta World Peace, then... why not reflect that? The "common names" guideline isn't followed with much consistency, anyway, and the general public won't care what the guideline says. Just IMO. Zagalejo^^^ 20:04, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we should change the name of the article yet, because a lot of casual basketball fans don't even know about the name change. NBA Fan44 (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I think we should change the article name exactly because a lot of people don't know about this "big news". Wikipedia serves as a site that informs people.—Chris!_c/t 20:42, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I'd suspect that people, such as commentators, would still refer to him as Ron Artest, wouldn't they? Unless he pressures them to start using the new name. Gary King (talk · scripts) 20:46, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

There is no discussion here, the Courts have legally granted him the name and that is what he is henceforth now known by no matter how ridiculous it sounds to us.--Jack Cox (talk) 21:26, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Since there is a dispute, it is best to wait first to avoid edit war. Also copy & paste is not a proper way to move the page. See Wikipedia:Moving a page.—Chris!_c/t 21:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

The DWTS voters said it all: Who cares? --Hutcher (talk) 02:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

Extended content

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. The result of the move request was: move. The discussion below has shown that, by now, most active major sports news outlets have adopted the new name of the player for purposes unrelated to his name change. The general consensus is reached that the article should now be moved. Deryck C. 15:07, 5 October 2011 (UTC) Ron Artest → Metta World Peace – The court has approved his name change request. I don't see why we should wait. A slow edit war is already brewing and I hope we can establish a consensus on how to move forward. —Chris!c/t 21:46, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now: As the one who reverted the article move, I personally think we should wait until it becomes the prevailing name for him amongst the media and general public. When Dancing with the Stars calls him Metta during the upcoming season, I'll support it then. -happy5214 22:21, 16 September 2011 (UTC) They are doing this as of 9/20/2011. Bill (talk) 06:40, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now: I agree that we should wait to move the article until he is more commonly referred to as Metta World Peace. NBA Fan44 (talk) 22:49, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now: Part of me wants to just go ahead with the move, but per WP:COMMONNAME, the article title should stay as is, because that is what he is called. For example, Carnell Williams goes by Cadillac Williams, so that's what the article is entitled, even though that isn't his legal name.--Giants27(T|C) 23:09, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Well, it's not strictly about what his legal name is. "Ron Artest" was never his legal name - it was Ronald William Artest. Zagalejo^^^ 00:11, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now: Per the above reasoning. And perhaps we also need to discuss when and whether changes should be made in the text of other articles about Artest. Large scale changes from "Artest" to "World Peace" in historical articles like Pacers–Pistons brawl (see this diff) may only serve to confuse. --Arxiloxos (talk) 23:36, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Support moving the title of the article to "Metta World Peace". It's really a judgment call as to when the latter becomes the most common version of his name, but as history shows (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, World B. Free, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, etc) it will happen, so we might as well get it over with. I do think care needs to be taken when doing "find and replace" edits to articles, because in most historical contexts, he should still be referred to as "Ron Artest". Zagalejo^^^ 23:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC) However obvious it is that day will come, WP:CRYSTAL still applies. -happy5214 00:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Indeed. No doubt there are examples that can be found of people with official name changes that are still known by their former, more famous name. Gary King (talk · scripts) 00:48, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support per Zagalejo. Sports media will start using his new name sooner or later, so why wait.—Chris!c/t 23:56, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now: Changing it now makes total sense, and I understand why people think it's ridiculous it hasn't been changed already. However, Wikipedia has established rules that we can't entirely replace with our own judgments, and WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA suggest we should wait until "Metta World Peace" is more recognizable and commonly used than "Ron Artest." As soon as most headlines about him refer to his new name rather than his old name -- and for something other than not being Ron Artest anymore -- I would change it. For example, if most headlines about his Dancing with the Stars appearance refer to "World Peace" rather than "Artest," I would change it. Pdxuser (talk) 00:18, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose Per my comment earlier. It seems like this is the prevailing notion so far, mostly per stuff like WP:COMMONNAME. You don't just move the page because the name changed officially. I'm sure someone can pull out examples of pages that have a totally different page title from their official name, because they are far more well known by that other name. Which is exactly why I said that the page should be moved around the time that commentators start referring to him by his new name. Gary King (talk · scripts) 00:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC) There are examples where a nickname or the "common name everybody knows them by" is the title of the page, such as McG, Jimmy Carter (instead of James E. Carter), Madonna (entertainer) (rather than her full name), or Buddy Holly (whose real surname was Holley). however, this is slightly different in that Artest uses MWP as his official name, rather than the examples of stage names or professional names. hbdragon88 (talk) 01:34, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support Several people are neglecting this part of WP:COMMONNAME that I've bolded: "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We do not know what terms will be used in the future, but only what is and has been in use, and will therefore be familiar to our readers. However, common sense can be applied – if an organization changes its name, it is reasonable to consider the usage since the change." I'm a resident of the Los Angeles media market (Ron Artest/Metta World Peace is a Los Angeles Laker, after all), and the reporters are already referring to him as "Metta World Peace" and "World Peace" instead of "Ron Artest" or "Artest" in TV sports reports. Obviously, I can't upload TV reports here, but see these examples that refer to him as "World Peace" rather than "Artest" through most of the article text: this Los Angeles Times article and this NBC 4 article in Los Angeles or this Washington Post article and this UPI article in the national media. Using the line of reasoning of some of the people opposing this move, we should move Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge to Princess Kate or back to Kate Middleton. OCNative (talk) 01:54, 17 September 2011 (UTC) I totally agree. But your example probably is a different case. For royalty, Wikipedia often use the official title instead of common name.—Chris!c/t 01:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Good point. I've struck that line. The rest of my argument can stand without it though perhaps, a better example would be an effort to move Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis to Jacqueline Kennedy. There are far, far more Google hits for Jacqueline Kennedy without Onassis than there are for Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis or Jacqueline Onassis. OCNative (talk) 02:04, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support "Metta World Peace" is, by all indications, now his legal personal and professional name. Just as Chad Ochocinco's entry was moved from "Chad Johnson," and World B. Free and Muhammad Ali's entries would have been moved had Wikipedia been around then, this article should receive the same treatment. Raider Duck (talk) 02:13, 17 September 2011 (UTC) You basically just said what I was about to say. Splent (talk) 02:14, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support - The guy has now legaly and officially changed his name. It's no different than a name connected to a conversion to Islam or a woman getting married. The press will catch up pretty quickly but I don't see why it isn't moved now that the process is finished. I don't see the point in changing historical articles, though, as his name was Ron Artest at the time (unless it's a paranthetical statement like "(now known as...)" Rikster2 (talk) 02:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support. Somebody asked how Dancing with the Stars will handle it; "World Peace is super psyched!"[3] They're going to phase it in so as not to catch fans off guard; however, his cast profile mentions the name change.[4] I think that's the best indicator of how the press will refer to him, so there's no reason not to move our article to his new name. Obviously, historical accounts will still describe him as Ron Artest up until the name change, but from here on out, and for purposes of the introduction to the article, He's Metta World Peace. —C.Fred (talk) 03:49, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Mentions it, but it doesn't yet reflect it. -happy5214 04:52, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support per OCNative. I don't see any fair reason not to move the page. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 03:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Weak support. I personally want to wait and see which name he is going to use professionally, i.e. in the Lakers roster and on his shirt. However, I'm assuming that he will use World Peace on his jersey as he intended. So there is no harm in moving this page now, after all it's his legal name. If after the lockout the Lakers still write Artest on their roster and his shirt name is still Artest, we can revert the page move easily, citing WP:COMMONNAME as the reason. — MT (talk) 04:29, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Support: The Wikipedia should go with his legal name, regardless of what people call him now or not. Move the article and have Metta World Peace the main page for him and Ron Artest as a redirect. While we are at it, we may as well go through his article with word processor and change all mention of Artest to World Peace. Really, if he went through all the trouble of legally changing his name, the encyclopedia should also reflect the fact and respect his wishes (and legal reality). To have a mix of Artest and World Peace is confusing. Eqdoktor (talk) 07:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC) There might be some MOS guideline somewhere, but we typically don't change all previous instances of the name to reflect the new name; see, for example, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who is referred to as Lew Alcindor until 1972. hbdragon88 (talk) 07:46, 17 September 2011 (UTC) No, wikipedia never states that article title should use legal name, please read WP:COMMONNAME, it states that the most common name used by the subject should be used for the article title. It would be silly to move Lady Gaga to Stefani Germanotta or J. R. Smith to Earl Smith III. There is one case where an NBA player changed his name during his playing career but opted to use his old name professionally, therefore his wikipedia article remained in his old name. However, in this case, I don't think this Artest will still use his old name, considering the efforts he made to have it changed. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Muhammad Ali are good examples where their old names are still used in the article on the events before they changed names. Past events such as Pacers–Pistons brawl should also still use Artest rather than World Peace. — MT (talk) 08:02, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Not to belabor a particular point but there are exceptions to WP:COMMONNAME. A good example is Sean Combs. The popular press (and his fans) seldom use the name Sean Combs (by itself anyway). On the other hand, depending on which stage of his career(or even the geographic location), his popular names are: Puffy, Puff, Diddy, Puff Daddy, Puffy, P. Diddy. Popular names of celebrities change with their moods, legal names on the other hand are constant. Eqdoktor (talk) 10:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC) See Talk:Sean Combs#Move request, where it says that due to him being known by so many stage names, it would be better to call him by his legal name. Just saying... -happy5214 21:47, 19 September 2011 (UTC) Support Wikipedia has no firm rules. If WP:COMMONNAME says to recognize an organization's name change, then the same should apply to a person, even if it wasnt explicitly stated. He's previously stated his intention to have World Peace on his jersey. This is not the case where a WP:STAGENAME or nickname was used over an official name before. Go with the new official name. In this case, I think it's WP:CRYSTAL to assume the name will not be used.—Bagumba (talk) 09:14, 17 September 2011 (UTC) And the title of the article you cite is "Ron Artest talks name-change holdup". Jenks24 (talk) 14:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Was there a point to the comment? The article was from 3 weeks ago. A judge has since approved the change.—Bagumba (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Well now that it's official... oh wait, we still go with the common name, regardless of the official one. Jenks24 (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC) You should see Eqdoktor's comment above, where he pointed out a case where we go with the official name instead of the common one.—Chris!c/t 19:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC) Sean Combs is a unique situation and I don't think it's analogous to this one. Jenks24 (talk) 23:08, 19 September 2011 (UTC) Right, I am just pointing out we don't go with common name all the time.—Chris!c/t 01:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:COMMONNAME. To move it now would be to assume that his new name will become the common name in the future. It is certainly not the common name at present (the majority of articles about this are titled "Ron Artest changes his name" or something similar). Just wait a few months until we can properly assess whether his new name has become the common usage or not. Jenks24 (talk) 14:43, 17 September 2011 (UTC) WP:COMMONNAME says "However, common sense can be applied – if an organization changes its name, it is reasonable to consider the usage since the change." No reason to not apply common sense to people changing names. —Bagumba (talk) 16:36, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Of course common sense should be applied. The key part of your quote is "consider the usage since the change". Difficult to do in this short time frame, but google news does allow you to confine your search to the last 24 hours only. In the past day, google news gets 1,740 results for "Ron Artest", compared to only 738 for "Metta World Peace". The usage since the change is still in favour of the current title. Jenks24 (talk) 19:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC) I just realized we are interpreting the same phrase differently as it's ambiguous. I read it as "consider the usage [of the new name in Wikipedia] since the [official name] change" i.e. use the new official name unless a stagename was used before. I can picture either being considered common sense. Either we stick with old name now and change to new name later if it is common name, or we switch to new name now and switch to old name later if it ends up being common. It's not the end of the world either way as redirects exist and both name are in the 1st sentence of the lead. I'd still !vote to err on the side of using official name now esp if the subject prefers it and a stagename didn't previously exist.—Bagumba (talk) 07:18, 18 September 2011 (UTC) Hmm, interesting interpretation. Mine is "consider the usage [in reliable sources] since the [official name] change" – that is to say that we should only implement the official change if the reliable sources have already proceeded us and are already using the new official name. Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on this one :) Jenks24 (talk) 23:04, 19 September 2011 (UTC) Support. I admit that I don't personally want to see the page move, but when I thought about it from as an experienced Wikipedia editor, I realized that my reservation has to do with the fact that I'd just rather see it remain Ron Artest for personal ease of editing. I really can't argue against the name change. My one caveat, and I mentioned this at WT:NBA, is that all awards, honors and/or controversies that he has won or been involved in prior to September 2011 need to remain as Ron Artest (e.g. his championship navbox with the Lakers should still read "Artest"). Anything he garners from now onwards should reflect Metta World Peace. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:20, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose until there is a new primary source referent. Right now headlines read Artest. Eventually it might by like Ochocinco, but it isn't yet. The change may happen soon and quickly. Two months from now might be the right time, but now isn't.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:28, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Comment: People are still searching for "Ron Artest" more than "Metta World Peace," suggesting Artest is still the more common and recognizable name. It's also the name that people will be looking for in search results, where Wikipedia gets a lot of its traffic. Once the Google Trends chart shows a sustained, greater use of "Metta World Peace," I'd change it. Pdxuser (talk) 19:30, 17 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose for now. In addition to the concerns raised by others, including what is currently seen in reliable sources, we should also not jump the gun when even his official web site still resides at http://www.ronartest.com. It is one thing to legally change one's name, but another thing to get reliable sources, and even one's official web site and social media, to start using that as a professional name. Zzyzx11 (talk) 23:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC) But his Twitter account has changed and on it he complained that someone else had snapped up "mettaworldpeace.com" Rikster2 (talk) 01:26, 18 September 2011 (UTC) Well, where his official web site resides does not really matter, when cybersquatting is happening everyday.—Chris!c/t 20:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC) Support. striked by me, changed my opinion, If Chad Ochocinco can change his name and have his page moved, so should Artest. The name change is legal, and his name is now legally Metta World Peace.--Rockchalk717 (talk) 03:39, 20 September 2011 (UTC) Switch to Oppose-Once the Lakers official webpage changes his name to Metta World Peace on the roster, his name should stay as Ron Artest.--Rockchalk717 (talk) 14:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC) I wouldn't expect that page to be updated at all until the NBA lockout ends. Zagalejo^^^ 17:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC) Neither do I honestly. It might happen, but Its pretty unlikely. My opinion remains the same though--Rockchalk717 (talk) 14:19, 21 September 2011 (UTC) SupportOppose. No move until Metta World Peace edges out Ron Artest on Google Trends. Kauffner (talk) 10:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC) Comment Just tossing this out there: ESPN is referring to him as "Metta World Peace" in its headline on DWTS. Zagalejo^^^ 17:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC) Comment: He's still "Ron Artest" on Dancing With The Stars. They mentioned that he changed his name, but that he's still dancing as Ron Artest, and then he introduced himself as "I'm Ron Artest." Also, "Ron Artest" still gets double the search volume as "Metta World Peace" on Google Trends. Pdxuser (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC) This graph suggests that the difference in usage is quite small at this point. But at the moment, users are presumably Googling about the name change. Kauffner (talk) 06:35, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Thanks for adding to the discussion, but by only using the words "artest" and "metta," you're getting unrelated searches in the chart. For example, this one-year chart shows that about 1/3 of current searches for the word "metta" are likely unrelated to this topic, since that's the level of searches for "metta" there were before the word was ever mentioned as Ron Artest's new name. Pdxuser (talk) 07:11, 21 September 2011 (UTC) The introduction video was probably prepared a while before the show aired. In tonight's elimination show, Tom Bergeron was consistently calling him "Metta". Zagalejo^^^ 02:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Comment. ESPN already started calling him Metta World Peace, the forward formerly known as Ron Artest. They also moved his profile page into Metta World Peace. — MT (talk) 06:42, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Support: This is his legal name and his professional name going forward. Ron Artest should redirect to Metta World Peace.--A Second Man in Motion (talk) 07:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Yusuf Islam is the current legal and professional name of the person we all know as Cat Stevens, but his Wikipedia entry is for Cat Stevens because that's what people know him as and search for. Once more people refer to and search for Ron Artest as Metta World Peace, it will change. And since that didn't happen with Dancing With The Stars, it will probably happen when the NBA season starts (November 1 if the lockout ends in time). Pdxuser (talk) 21:55, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Cat Stevens was a stage name, which historically are not affected by official name changes. Artest did not go by a stagename, and I see no reason or precedent to look into crystal ball and expect reliable sources will not use his official name.—Bagumba (talk) 06:06, 22 September 2011 (UTC) His mainstream music is still being sold under the name "Cat Stevens".[5] He is "Yusuf Islam" only if you want to git down to "A is for Allah". Kauffner (talk) 11:45, 22 September 2011 (UTC) You're right that we should not look into a crystal ball, we should look at right now: What is the most commonly used name for him today? What is the most recognizable name for him today? For the time being, that's Ron Artest. In the near future, I expect it to be Metta World Peace, but we can't look into a crystal ball, we have to look at right now. The criteria is not "What is the official name?" or "What is the technical name?" That should go in the first paragraph, but it is not the criteria for the title. The criteria for the title includes "What is the most common name?" and "What is the most recognizable name?" Usually, "official" and "most common" are the same name, but not always, and, for right now, not here. Pdxuser (talk) 08:42, 22 September 2011 (UTC) Support. See Chad Ochocinco24.102.247.69 (talk) 17:43, 21 September 2011 (UTC) Support per Chad Ocho—, gah, the IP beat me to it. He is called Metta World Peace at his ESPN stat page and his Twitter account, but not on his NBA.com player bio (probably due to the lockout, however). After Ochocinco changed his name, the NFL was forced to allow him to wear an "Ochocinco" jersey, and the same will happen with the NBA when the lockout is over. Eagles 24/7 (C) 03:46, 24 September 2011 (UTC) Support Because of Chad Ochocinco. WayneSlam 19:14, 24 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose. No evidence that this is his common name. Article titles are for the convenience of readers, this is our policy and there seems no support to change it at this time, although I confess I'm a bit confused by the strength of the support vote for this move in the light of that. Very interesting indeed. Andrewa (talk) 15:55, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Perhaps you missed these articles from the Los Angeles Times the last 4 days Maybe some Metta World Peace is just the ticket for sports now, Metta World Peace donates $285,000 to charities, Metta World Peace: 'DWTS' loser, fashion winner?, Fashion News: Costumes don't save Metta World Peace on 'DWTS'. These are from ESPN: New Podkast with Chris Broussard: The lockout, Kobe, Italy, and Metta's DWTS wipeout, Metta World Peace given the boot on 'Dancing with Stars', Metta World Peace ousted from 'DWTS', Metta World Peace bombs; Hope Solo OK in 'DWTS'.—Bagumba (talk) 22:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC) That post does explain it a little. This of course is evidence that the proposed name is currently in use in some circles, which I think was already established. But it doesn't have any bearing beyond that on the decision. If you wish to continue with this proposal, read Wikipedia:article titles carefully, and see whether a cease can be made in terms of that policy. Also suggest you refrain from sarcasm, it doesn't impress anyone here. Andrewa (talk) 06:04, 26 September 2011 (UTC) I ask editors to assume good faith, as has been afforded previous comments such as "No evidence", "I'm a bit confused by the strength of the support", and "Very interesting indeed." Also if would be helpful to discuss specifically about the discussion at hand as an improvement over a vague wave at a policy. Specific examples of current usage in reliable sources would be helpful, as there are limitations to using the raw numbers from Google. From what I can tell, reliable sources continue mentioning "Ron Artest" to provide context that it was Metta World Peace's former name, but headlines and primary usage have moved to World Peace. Some non-reliable sources are still clinging to sole usage of "Artest" in their current usage.—Bagumba (talk) 16:56, 26 September 2011 (UTC) I think the onus of proof is on those who wish to move to this new name. Headlines will of course use the more newsworthy name; No prize for guessing which that is, so the subeditors' preference for ir proves nothing. Evidence of primary usage? Andrewa (talk) 23:50, 1 October 2011 (UTC) Both ESPN and Yahoo Sports -two of the major sources on NBA information- have moved their profiles on Artest to Metta World Peace. I think that's the strongest argument in favor of moving the article here. Zagalejo^^^ 00:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC) Support Per Chad Ochocinco. ⁂†Poison the Well†⁂ (talk) 19:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC) Support He is already being mentioned as Metta World Peace by major news organizations including ESPN [6] --TheAznSensation (talk) 19:28, 28 September 2011 (UTC) Oppose. We should not be in the business of endorsing every gimmick and publicity stunt. Varlaam (talk) 16:37, 30 September 2011 (UTC) Varlaam, a legal name change does not equal a publicity stunt. Also this discussion has gone on long enough. Can someone get an admin to close this and make a decision. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 21:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC) I've placed a note at Wikipedia_talk:Requested_moves#Backlog.—Bagumba (talk) 23:26, 30 September 2011 (UTC) Update Now Yahoo Sports has followed ESPN's lead, and moved their profile on Artest to Metta World Peace. (I mentioned this above, but I wanted to make sure it gets seen.) NBA.com still lists him at Ron Artest, but again, the current lockout has made NBA.com useless for many purposes, so we shouldn't worry too much about what they do. Zagalejo^^^ 00:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC) The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kimsha, his ex-wife and "partner"

What is a "partner" in quotation marks when we are discussing a spouse? Varlaam (talk) 16:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what that's about, so I've removed it, for right now. Zagalejo^^^ 17:27, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Usage of World Peace vs Artest

There was a previous consensus at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association#Ron Artest to use the name Artest for all events in the bio that occurred before the name change.—Bagumba (talk) 21:45, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I would like to change the sentence "Ron Artest was born and raised in the Queensbridge projects..." to read "Metta World Peace was born Ronald William Artest, Jr. and raised in the Queensbridge projects..." This follows the format of:

• President Bill Clinton ("Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, III, at Julia Chester Hospital in Hope, Arkansas.")
• Football player-turned-President Gerald Ford ("Ford was born Leslie Lynch King, Jr., on July 14, 1913, at 3202 Woolworth Avenue in Omaha, Nebraska, where his parents lived with his paternal grandparents.")
• Most applicably, L.A. Laker Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ("Abdul-Jabbar was born Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor, Jr on April 16, 1947, and grew up in Manhattan..."),

I agree the rest of portions of the article regarding his pre-name change life should be left as Artest, just as is done with Blythe/Clinton, King/Ford, and Alcindor/Abdul-Jabbar. OCNative (talk) 03:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm cool with that. Zagalejo^^^ 05:14, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Since the sentence was vandalized, I went ahead and included this change also. Other mentions before name change should remain Artest.—Bagumba (talk) 23:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 December 2011

In the early life section, change status of teammate Lamar Odom from "current" to "former". Reference: http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7341952/los-angeles-lakers-lamar-odom-dealt-dallas-mavericks-asking-trade

Aeisenst (talk) 01:06, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I've reworded the sentence. Thanks. Zagalejo^^^ 19:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggested Edits February 13 2012

Update: The below revisions complete, and more.

-- Brhiba (talk) 22:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

"Professional Career" // "Indiana Pacers"

• "...had the best season of his professional career." Add "to date" (his career is ongoing)

"NBA career statistics"

• Move up, below section "Professional career" (this is important info about his primary occupation)

"Discography"

• Placement of subsection is out of context. A) Need to mention somewhere higher that he released an album as a rapper; B) Need more information about the album itself (separate, linked page necessary?)

"Endorsements and media presence"

• title is misleading (esp. with no mention of any endorsements, past or present). Change to "Media presence" or "Other endeavors" or something else more general

"Advocacy"

• Separate topics into paragraphs -- paragraph split after sentence ending "...neuter your dog."
• Could combine as a sub-section to above [?]

"Legal and disciplinary issues"

• Switch order of title to "Disciplinary and legal issues" (or else, switch order of subsections)
• No mention of Pacers/Pistons incident; suggest moving majority of that subsection from "Professional career" section to here

"Personal Life"

• Should give his own explanatory quote first attribution, and move down sentence attributing name-change idea to Ochocinco (for which the ref link is broken anyway).

Brhiba (talk) 00:11, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I've made a few changes based on some of your suggestions, but you're free to edit things yourself. I've only tackled the easy things on your list. Zagalejo^^^ 02:01, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. When I last visited, the page was locked for editing. I can certainly make the rest of the changes myself (but thanks for the assist in the meantime).

-- Brhiba (talk) 06:03, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

New Image

I uploaded nice photo of Metta. --Steffaville (talk) 19:32, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Section wiki coding problem?

Any reason why the first section titled “Pacers-Pistons brawl” with a level four header is not showing up in the contents, at the top of the page? 71.146.17.18 (talk) 18:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 April 2012

On April 22, 2012, in a game against the Oklahoma City Thunder, World Peace elbowed James Harden in the head as he was celebrating a dunk. He received a flagrant foul 2 and was immediately ejected. Harden stayed on the floor for several minutes and left the game for evaluation.

I'm requesting that this statement be added: Harden later was diagnosed with a concussion from the elbow. Bubbles323 (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I suggest waiting on that until, Medical Report is out, and Suspension issue is clarified

Bubbles323 (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I just added something about that. Zagalejo^^^ 04:27, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 April 2012

He is African-American basketball player.

Jdraiders (talk) 21:57, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 19:48, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 April 2012

Can someone add a wikilink to List of players banned or suspended by the NBA in the following sentence in the Metta World Peace#Indiana Pacers section:

• Artest missed 86 games, the longest suspension for an on-court incident in NBA history.

125.161.247.198 (talk) 07:37, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Done—Chris!_c/t 01:14, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit name change throughout?

Since Artest has legally changed his surname to World Peace, should we not correspondingly edit all instances of his surname? I'd be happy to make the changes myself but I don't know whether this is a desired change as regards the Wiki volunteer community. Thanks! Greasyham (talk) 02:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

The consensus at Talk:Metta_World_Peace/Archive_1#Usage_of_World_Peace_vs_Artest was to leave as Artest for references before the name change.—Bagumba (talk) 04:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 December 2012

On December 25, 2012 the ron artest elbow striked again and hit New York Knick's Steve Novak. 67.169.111.105 (talk) 22:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.—Chris!_c/t 01:05, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Verb

In the brawl section it says and lay down and it needs to be changed to laid down. Correct this grammar please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.217.232.53 (talk) 03:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

It is correct; see [7]. Zagalejo^^^ 04:30, 2 June 2013 (UTC)