Talk:Midori (violinist)

An Even-Handed Witch Hunt

who wrote:

"Propoganda supporting this rediculous labor dispute can be found at http://midoriandfriends.typepad.com/strike/"

This does not belong in an encylopedia, especially not phrased that way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.231.137.190 (talk • contribs) 07:51, 14 March 2006 Perhaps confusingly, there is also a rvn by User:71.244.94.127 and a counter-rvn by User:Mindmatrix in this talk page's history for this text.

• Some (fairly dreary) background:

1. 4 (clumsy) edits by User:67.100.145.130 (13 total edits, all to Midori Goto, 10 on 2006 Feb 16 and 3 more in two sessions abt 3 wks later) added some partly unencyclopedic & arguably PoV language ("union-busting", "happily", assertions of fact made in the tone of arguments but w/o sufficient detail to establish their relevance), and also removed the entire "==External links==" section. These spanned 5 minutes. The first three of these carried the default summary for edits on that section (apparently the editor initially intended to place a 'graph just above it, at the end of the only prose section), while the last (necessarily, with the only heading and the text below it removed, a whole-page edit) was summarized with the single char "1". The last edit of the four also placed the new material as the 3rd sentence of the article (apparently as originally contemplated, since the 1st edit duplicated the 2nd sentence), resulting in there being, in the 1st 2 'graphs, 5 characters about the strike issues for every 4 older characters.
2. User:CClio333, 2 minutes after the 4th edit and 3 after the destruction of the final section, gave the summary "replaced deleted external links section" and in fact reverted the IP's full session of 4 edits. (This is IMO plausibly the result of viewing only the third edit's changes, whose only effect was replacing the edited section with precisely "asdf", and selecting the "rollback" lk next to it. I have not, however, ever had occasion to test whether this effect is what the server would do.)
3. 16 minutes after the rvn, the same IP did the first of 6 saves over 20 minutes, restoring the reverted prose, appending 5 new sentences at the end of the prose portion, and placing the lk referenced by the contributor who preceded me once in-line in the prose and once under the (previously restored) ext-refs. The new last sentence of the article read

   It is a shame that a world famous musician such as Midori would risk her reputation to keep a few thousand dollars from 25 struggling music teachers.

4. Abt 2 days later, an IP (with one edit from before the strike-related edits) removed that final sentence as "clear editorial statements".
5. After abt 2 weeks more, an IP (with no previous edits & none since) removed the 2nd identical ext lk.
6. After another two days, User:Thinkingoutloud made the first 3 of their 5 edits to date (all 5 in the accompanying article). These removed all of the original IP's remaining prose except for the neutral introductory sentence of the second prose passage, replaced the rest of the prose with data (more clearly relevant, despite asserting "benefits" without any qualification that would make the information meaningful) on the other side of the controversy, and introduced the lk provided by the original IP with the PoV material complained about above. (So the answer to the "who wrote" question asked above is "User:Thinkingoutloud".)
7. Two cycles of more-or-less revert-warring followed, with each editor averaging about 2-3 days response time. ToL practiced straight reversion; the IP made minor variations, the most positive of which was, in restoring the duplicate ext lk, it changing the piping on it to wording the to suggest (presumably accurately) that its PoV is the one the IP was advocating for.
8. Two more IPs (total of two WP edits each to date) removed in stages what ToL's last rvn left. (One of them was the complaining IP above, who removed what they complained abt & a bit more, and the other is also the IP who removed the complaint from this talk page -- perhaps seeing the matter as closed & the complaint obsolete.)

--Jerzy•t 22:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Merge

The merge suggestion is made more difficult since the other page now redirects here. Someone might want to pick up some of the information at this revision and incorporate it here.
--John (Jwy) 16:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• A basic discography would be nice, too.
  --John (Jwy) 16:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
  
• The reference is to a proposal on Apr 16 to merge Life of midori goto into (the article accompanying this talk page, namely) Midori Goto.

An editor removed the merge-from tag summarizing

remove merge proposal, which has been executed

but there is no sign of that meaning more than "if you ask for the one you'll get the other". I'll set up a mechanism for getting the content done via collaborative editing, and i'll do the history merge.

--Jerzy•t 22:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The Life of Midori Goto by Nathan

Suggested Procedure

1. The headings below are not part of the material under consideration for merging, but for the convenience of describing where the material came from.
2. There is no reason to reword the content on this page, and every reason not to: the text is confusing and probably confused, and part of making it usable is figuring out what it means; doing that will probably take conjectures and discussions. If those are done with bulleted points below the portion under discussion, colleagues can evaluate each others interpretations and conjectures against the original text, rather than having to do archeology to check the changed text against the original.
3. The entire text deserves evaluation of the possibility of merging it in with the existing text. Some of it will surely go no further than this page; some will probably be integrated. Use strike-thru to show text that is not waiting to be integrated into the article for any of three reasons: the information it states has already been added to the article, or there is agreement reached on this page that it is somehow unencyclopedic even if restated, or you're proposing that it be regarded as unencyclopedic. Unless someone has a better suggestion bracket those with [DONE] and [/DONE], with [NOGOOD] and [/NOGOOD], or with [???] and [/???] respectively.
4. If you have an idea on how to salvage part of a [???] portion, (or we've made a mistake about a [NOGOOD] portion), revive consideration of that portion by narrowing the scope of both the strike-thru markup and the [???] markers so it shows as something to consider further.
5. IMO, it's not urgent in this to do fact checking: if no one is saying "No, i get no ring of truth from that" but there's no verification, put in the article & and tag it with {{fact}}. If there isn't a reasonable consensus for doing that, keep it here with the [???] markers until someone comes up with reasonable verification.
6. As always, sign your comments and proposals with --~~~~.

--Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Intro

[DONE] Midori Goto was born in Osaka, Japan in 1971. [/DONE] She was named Midori which means "precious jade" in Japanese. Midori was attracted to the sound of the violin when her mother would practice it. She really wanted one to play for her own.

• 1st sent: already covered before merge.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

Early Life

Midori receieved a tiny violin from her grandmother at age four. She gave her first public performance for an audience in her hometown Osaka, featuring a Paganini Caprice. She continued to studied violin under her mother for several years after her performance. One day, a visiting musician from New York heard her play and asked midori's mother to make a recording of this amazing young girl. The recording was sent to the violin teacher Dorothy DeLay in America.

• Dorothy DeLay does have an article.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

When Miss Delay heard the recording, she could not believe that Midori was only eight years old at the time, and was already playing like she was thirty. Midori was invited by Mrs. DeLay to come to the Aspen summer Music School and Festival in 1981. She auditioned with the Bach Chaconne [NOGOOD] which Midori says "The song is about a dear dog who had died and gone to heaven". [/NOGOOD]

• And this dog concept communicates what, that she was sentimental at age 10 and could identify the emotional tone of classical music? Dump it unless someone comes up with the "angle" that gives it interest.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

Zukerman

While at the Aspen Music Festival, Midori meet world-wide known director Pinchas Zukerman. She played the Bartok Second Violin Concerto and Zukerman was astonished. Zukerman turned to the audience and said, "Out comes this tiny little thing, not even 10 at the time. I was sitting on a chair and I was as tall as she was standing. She tuned, she bowed to the audience, she bowed to me, she bowed to the pianist - and then she played the Bartok Second Concerto, and I went bananas. I sat there and tears started coming down my cheeks. I said, 'Do you play something else?' and through an interpreter, she said, 'Yes, the Sauret cadenza of the Paganini Concerto.' Ten years old, and she already played the Sauret cadenza like only a few people in the entire universe can do at any time! I'm talking about forever. And she had a tiny little half-size violin, but the sound that came out - it was ridiculous. I was absolutely stunned. I turned to the audience and said, 'Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know about you, but I have just witnessed a miracle." The audience went crazy and started cheering and applading for her performance.

• Pinchas Zukerman seems to be spelled right.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

After the review from Pinchas Zukerman, Midori career grew enormous. She started appearing in concerts with the Philadelphia Orchestra and the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. Midori also began to making several CDs of many different violin concertos when she as only 13.

Bernstein

During one of her performances on a work by Berstein In the fifth movement, Midori broke an E string and was quickly passed the violin of the concertmaster, continuing to play without missing a beat. When the unthinkable happened again and she broke an E string on the concertmaster's fiddle, she took the violin of the associate concertmaster. Both borrowed instruments were different in size - and both were larger than her own instrument - yet Midori was unfazed. When she came to the end, the audience and the orchestra erupted in applause and Bernstein fell to his knees.

• I'd like to hear the basis for "kneeling in" specific emotions; if he said that's what he felt, the right wording would be "...in what he described as ..."

[DONE] The front page of the New York Times the following day [/DONE] [NOGOOD] read, [/NOGOOD] [DONE] "Girl, 14, Conquers Tanglewood with 3 Violins." [/DONE]

• The difference between the existing acct & this one is that this one says the front page of the NYT had only 7 words on it. I am willing to believe that the Times displayed those 7 words, along with probably several other stories.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

Midori continued to expand her performing horizons in the late 1980s, making debuts with the London Symphony Orchestra, Berlin Philharmonic, Orchestre de Paris, Chicago and San Francisco symphonies and the Los Angeles and Israel philharmonics. As the years progressed and Midori's career was well established, there were fewer debuts and the focus adjusted. Today she maintains close relationships with a number of orchestras and conductors. Each time she returns, the musical and personal relationships deepen, often with rewarding musical results.

Resources

[DONE] http://www.gotomidori.com [/DONE]

• 1st lk is already included & piped.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

[???] http://www.sonyclassical.com/artists/midori/bio.html [/???]

• 2nd lk corresponds to existing one to http://www.midoriviolin.com/; they need to be weighed against each other.
  --Jerzy•t 05:41, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  

Citzenship

When did she acquire U.S. citizenship? Badagnani (talk) 05:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Ten years later, same question. There is no source given. Japanese version does not mention US citizenship. --87.173.210.192 (talk) 21:57, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Guitar Hero

Removed the section on Guitar Hero, as the "Midori" character in that has absolutely nothing to do with Midori the violinist; Midori is merely a common Japanese name. Kids, please keep your video game references away from the pages for real artists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AliceTaniyama (talk • contribs) 23:57, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Midori Gotō → Midori (violinist) — Move to the name by which this violinist is commonly known; see her website, recordings, concert publicity. ReverendWayne (talk) 15:13, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

• This does not sound like a good idea as the article is about the person. The policy is to use the person's name. The proposed name with qualifier, is not how she terms herself. However no issue at all with the creation of a redirect. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Midori is the name she uses professionally. What's there now is a disambiguation page. That's correct, in my view, as Midori is a common name and I don't see any usage that's clearly primary. So, if we can't use the name by which she's commonly known as the article title, what's our best option? When I saw the page listed recently at AfD, I was not at first aware that the well-known violinist was the subject of the page. I suspect that the AfD nominator's due diligence per WP:BEFORE was hampered because many sources use the single name only. My argument is simply that the qualifier (violinist) is more useful in helping the reader identify the subject. More people know who Midori the violinist is than know who Midori Gotō is. ReverendWayne (talk) 16:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose So deal with it with a redirect from Midori (violinist) to Midori Gotō. Skinsmoke (talk) 15:23, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Redirect is now in place. If the article were currently at Midori (violinist), a redirect from Midori Gotō would also be appropriate. But how is this an argument for preferring one title over the other? ReverendWayne (talk) 22:52, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Vegaswikian (talk) 01:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)}}

moved why?

Anthony Appleyard moved this page within three hours, without discussion, hours after the macrons had been placed back, why?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 10:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Honorary Degree from Yale

In May 2012, Yale University awarded Midori with an honorary Doctor of Music degree. This is easily verifiable, but my question is: is it relevant to this article? How should it be incorporated? Yumehoshijima (talk) 05:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 16 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 00:37, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

---

Midori Gotō → Midori (violinist) – As a violinist, Midori is know just under the name "Midori", therefore this is the correct name of this page. Aviscanora (talk) 16:16, 16 November 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Mahveotm (talk) 20:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

• The page has been moved before, and Midori is currently a disambig page, so this can't go through without discussion. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
• @Aviscanora and SarekOfVulcan: queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 20:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support. I think the reliable sources in the article show that Midori is "the single name is used as a true artist's name (stage name, pseudonym, etc.)" WP:MONONYM (also apparent in her discography) and that it has "prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources" WP:COMMONNAME -Yadap (talk) 22:13, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
• Neutral I'm happy with the title as it is, but I'm not sure if it's the best location or not. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Japanese name

The Japanese form of her birth name is "Goto Mi Dori" according to these refs in the article: Los Angeles Times [1] "Born Goto Mi Dori in Osaka, Japan" and according to Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians [2] "Midori (real name, Goto Mi Dori)". Sjones23 has repeatedly removed this name with these edits on November 28 and December 1: [3] [4] with his personal opinion in the comments "Cleanup, Midori is one word only" and 'Her Japanese first name is just "Midori." No separate words.' But this is contrary to the reliable sources WP:RS

• @Sjones23 and SarekOfVulcan:

-Yadap (talk) 05:53, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Even if the reliable sources do say that "Mi Dori" is two separate words, I think having two separate words in the given name should not be used and must be compliant with WP:MOS-JA#Personal names and that's why I've boldly changed it. I'm only following the guidelines and policies as I have been doing for the past ten years I've been here, so it's just not my personal opinion. Meanwhile, I've asked Nihonjoe (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) and WhisperToMe (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), two uninvolved administrators, for their thoughts on the matter. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• Given her age, I would say that Midori (one word) is her given name, and Mi Dori (split) is a weird affectation adopted later, if true. Japanese two-part names are rare (common in Chinese, so may have been a misunderstanding by an LATimes editor which got repeated), and trendy kirakira names did not become a phenomenon for at least 15 years after her birth.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:13, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

PS-the Japanese (native), German/French/Italian (relevant to classical music) Wikipedias do not reference a split name. It's either a goof by a biographer or some US marketing gimmick.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:17, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

• "Midori" is almost always written like that, as one word. WhisperToMe (talk) 08:27, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
• (What Kintetsubuffalo said, basically) The rules for registering a Japanese name do not contemplate spaces. Her name could only be registered as みどり in hiragana, or some combination of characters having that reading. The standard way to romanise this is Midori, and since the "birth name" is more or less by definition a romanisation of a name in a different script, this is what it is. Someone really should coin a silly spelling for this "re-lie-able" word, because it has just too little to do with the normal English meaning of "reliable". Imaginatorium (talk) 10:09, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
• I agree too. Frankly, the LA Times is not a reliable source – for Japanese linguistics. It might be very reliable for who go shot in LA this afternoon. Encyclopedia.com is a tertiary source which is of no use in settling sourcing conflicts; reputable publisher, but very little is know about who writes what under what editorial control (if any), and it doesn't cite its own sources. In this case it's just copy-pasting from another tertiary source, Baker’s Biographical Dictionary of Musicians, so ... same boat. Even if parts of Gale's Encyclopedia.com were reliable on Japanese, Baker's isn't, it just presumptively reliable for musician facts that do not require non-music-related specialist knowledge.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  11:46, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
• So we have theories that it is a mistake, marketing or affectation. Although it's not the common way to write it, is it possible that it may appear as "Mi Dori" on some English language identification document? This was my thought based on my personal experience. I think there should be a note that the legal name is also said to be "Goto Mi Dori" because of this possibility, which is noted by prominent sources. The LA Times may not be known as an expert on Japanese linguistics but it has won many Pulitzer prizes. WP:NEWSORG --Yadap (talk) 18:01, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

No, basically. There is no dispute about her birth name, which is 五嶋みどり. This can be represented in Roman letters (not actually "English", any more than "Lithuanian" or "French") as Gotō Midori, and particularly in cultures in which the term "last name" is used to mean "family name" (here the first name in order of writing), may be reversed, or the macron elided. But you ask about a putative English language identification document: where do you imagine such a document would reside? Does the American government send officials all over the world issuing "(American) English language identification documents" to such of all and sundry who are likely to become famous later? The origin of "Mi Dori" is written in the article -- for a time she used this slightly affected form of her given name, after dropping her family name in disgust at her parents' divorce. If asked "Is this your real name?", of the two acceptable options ("Yes" or "No"), "Yes" is a perfectly reasonable response. No doubt this was overinterpreted into the entry in Baker's as "legal name", because Baker's, while an excellent book (at least in Nicholas Slonimsky's paper form) is an American publication, and American publications are not exactly known in the outside world for their grasp of how anything actually works outside America. Imaginatorium (talk) 03:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

• I think using the same wording we do on some Japanese bands would be appropriate. Something like "Midori Goto (五嶋 みどり, Gotō Midori, born October 25, 1971) who performs under the mononym Midori (commonly stylized as Mi Dori), is a Japanese-born American violinist." ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:34, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Japanese last name macron

WP:ROMAJI "To determine if the non-macronned form is in common usage in English-language reliable sources, a review should be done of all the related reliable sources used for the article" The majority of reliable sources in the article state the full name as Midori Goto except for two, Morningside Music Bridge International Music Festival and Limelight (magazine), which are less prominent. It would seem outside of the Nihongo template, Goto should be used? @SarekOfVulcan: -Yadap (talk) 17:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)