Talk:Miriam Cates

University

Yorkshire post says she studied genetics at Oxford (contra the article) but her Linked-In says Cambridge so we should go with that. NBeale (talk) 14:07, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Haven't seen the Yorkshire Post article, but recent pieces in The Times and the Catholic News indicate that the subject did her undergrad work at Cambridge in genetics, then post grad teaching qualification at Sheffield Hallam University. At this point, however, I see that some editor has used the subject's own website as the source, so that wants fixing. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 11:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Just to firm up on this, I'm now confident the subject did her undergraduate work at Cambridge, as confirmed by Catholic World Report, Politics.co.uk,The Times, The New Statesman and The Yorkshire Post. I think that's settled anyway. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 05:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Councillor?

I'm pretty sure Miriam Cates was never a councillor in Sheffield. There were no conservative councillors 2008-2021. Prior to that only Dore and Totley had conservative councillors for some years, Anne Smith being the last. This seems to be a category error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.252.128.62 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Certainly appears to have won a seat in the Bradfield-Oughtibridge Ward in 2015 and and again in 2019 according to this report. The section of the article covering local politics appears to be correct. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 10:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The article doesn't say she was on the Sheffield city council. It says she was on the Bradfield parish council. So she was a parish Councillor not a city Councillor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.31.214 (talk) 09:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2023

Cates has been a member of St Thomas Philadelphia Church on Gilpin Street for over 10 years, and served as a senior leader on its board from 2016 and 2018. After revelations that the church had subjected people to a "gay exorcism", and practiced gay conversion therapy, Cates said that she was 'not aware of any such therapy taking place' and that it was 'never something raised with me.' TrellyL (talk) 10:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Biased/Argumentative Language

This article appears to have significant biased & argumentative language, particularly paragraph 10 of the 'political career' section. The pre-loading of context that this was a 'fringe' event and that the statement was made 'without evidence' are unusual and loaded phrasings clearly designed to portray Cates in a negative light - especially given that the quote itself notes explicitly that Cates' is making an 'anecdotal' observation.

The middle of that paragraph, the sentence "She also said that an increase in the number of young children who are still wearing nappies when they start school was the fault of working mothers, since "[it] is increasingly impossible when our GDP-obsessed economic system demands that even mothers of small children leave their infants in daycare to return to the workplace" and modern parents were unwilling to greatly discomfort their children enough" is based on a opinion editorial, not factual reporting, which goes against Wikipedia guidelines.

The final line in that paragraph, "Charlotte Lytton noted in The Daily Telegraph that Cates seemed to have no concern for the effect of fathers' employment on children's toilet training." is of highly dubious relevance, and its inclusion only furthers the impression that this section was constructed with the direct intention of painting Cates in a negative light.

Her views and actions mentioned in this paragraph - commenting that 'you see an awful lot of trans women, so men, saying it was trans porn that led them into the trans arena' and '[it] is increasingly impossible when our GDP-obsessed economic system demands that even mothers of small children leave their infants in daycare to return to the workplace' are clearly notable and have been picked up by the press for being so, but this paragraph, and perhaps other sections of this article with similar problems, should be re-written to reflect a factual and neutral style. 195.188.14.222 (talk) 09:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi there Anonymous ISP,

I have likewise felt this article is badly skewed, but I hadn't realised that the quote about "young children who are wearing nappies" is from an opinion piece, rather than reportage. That is concerning and, you're right, does go against Wikipedia guidelines which looks for reliable sources.

Short quotes that reflect the political outlook of the subject are okay, but I would like to see a spread, covering notable views, rather than one or two sensationalist statements.

Strongly encourage you to consider becoming a registered contributor, and begin making improvements to the article along the lines you've discussed! Why not get started here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_create_an_account%3F then come back to the article and make your edits.

Best regards,

MatthewDalhousie (talk) 00:03, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Actually, the distortions are even worse than I first thought. Just removed three sentences because they used company websites and whatnot for the citations. An attempt at original research which is not what we're doing here. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 10:41, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Catching up on this now. I think the following clean ups are worth doing or have, apparently, been done.

1. Compacting the matter of the commissioner for standards, which was confusing in the first place and then didn't happen. About as close to not-news as is possible.

2. The nappies and ablutions thing was, as made plain above, not based on actual reporting and seems to have been, appropriately, flushed.

3. Agree that the material on trans needs to take on an encyclopaedic tone, which I'm happy to attempt.

4. Would be good to get a spread of topics the subject has raised that have been reported on, rather than this heavy weight on trans, and I'm keen to "not give disproportionate space to particular viewpoints" as per WP:BLPBALANCE

5. There's some material about a church she was involved in and what they believed, which I do not see as being particularly biographical.

MatthewDalhousie (talk) 08:54, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Maiden name

The table says that she was born 'Miriam Joy Cates', whereas later in the article it says she's married to Dave Cates. Was Cates her surname before she married? This would mean that she married someone with the same surname as her, which seems unlikely to me. Thecolonpagesaretoocomplicated (talk) 14:45, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

You're right, but the article is as such probably because there is no information on what her maiden name is. Ellwat (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

There is absolutely no information on the subject's name was before marriage; nor are there any reliable sources on the full name of her mother or father, so we simply need to remove the "name at birth" bit. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 04:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

According to the GRO index (via ancestry) her name was Miriam J Atkins and married David J L Cates. Marriage registered March 2005. Keith D (talk) 19:46, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Solid stuff @Keith D. I'll make the change. MatthewDalhousie (talk) 02:20, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

She is no longer an MP

She just lost her seat 68.199.243.137 (talk) 03:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

InfoboxOfficeHolder reference to Labour?

There is an unsourced reference to Labour in the Infobox. No mention in the article text. Type-O'Fixx (talk) 19:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)