Talk:Mitsuko Uchida

Damehood

Uh, I don't think that she becomes a Dame until she actually meets Her Majesty (or HM's deputy) and is invested with the honour. The announcement in the media is just an announcement. --GuillaumeTell 21:45, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

That's not my understanding at all. Many knights have died before getting the opportunity of being invested, but they were referred to as "Sir <name>" from the moment of the official announcement. We've changed Christoper Lee's and Nick Faldo's pages already, and we always do that immediately the knight/damehood is announced. The formal announcement/gazettal is what in practice makes them a knight. There are also the cases of people like Henry Cotton (golfer), who died even before the official announcement, but he's still properly called "Sir Henry Cotton".

Anglican clergy never receive the accolade - and granted, they do not normally use "Sir" (although I know of at least 2 exceptions) - but they are still knights. Coincidentally, I recently asked a question @ Talk:Accolade#Conferring knighthood?, but am still waiting for a reply. It seems to be a grey area in their case. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:34, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

For general info: The following is copied from User talk:JackofOz:

Hi. I read about Uchida's recent damehood, but it seems she is only a resident in London and not a British citizen or national. In that case her damehood would be honorary, not substantive. If that's the case, as I suspect, the category she would belong in would be Category:Honorary Dames Commander of the Order of the British Empire, not the other. Please drop me a line on my talkpage if you find out definitively one way or the other, Thanks. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 01:30, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, exactly the same thought occurred to me, I must admit. However, there are many ghits now for “Mitsuko Uchida made a Dame of the Order of the British Empire”, and “Congratulations, Dame Mitsuko”, etc etc. No mention anywhere of it being honorary, and I have searched. The official list of honours does not seem to be available yet, and that would be the definitive source.

However, I note that when she got her CBE in 2000, it was honorary because she was still a citizen of Japan – see [1]. I’ve searched for any evidence she has acquired British citizenship in the meantime, but no luck. But there’s nothing to say she hasn’t, either. It’s quite possible she did but it never made the news. At this stage, given that a number of UK newspapers have made no mention of the DBE being honorary, I’d prefer to believe it’s substantive. At the end of the day, that's all we at Wikipedia can do. It's been reported in reputable sources, and in the absence of anything definitive either way about her current citizenship, we must assume it's been correctly reported. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

It's now confirmed in the London Gazette - [2]. Nothing honorary about it as far as I can see. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

British citizenship

Re this edit, the two bits about her being British:

As discussed above, her DBE was not honorary, but substantive. It's not possible for a person who isn't at the very least a citizen of a Commonwealth realm to be given a substantive award in an Honours List. She lives in Britain, so I think it's perfectly acceptable for us to come to the conclusion that sometime between 2001 and now she has become a British citizen. We don't need a cite saying so explicitly. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I've just added a bit about her partner, reciprocating what it says on his WP page. She might, of course, be married to him (though I can't recall any publicity about it), in which case that might be how she became a British citizen. --GuillaumeTell 14:16, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Being married to a British citizen doesn't make her British, as it doesn't living in the UK. We need a source explaining that she became, legally, a British citizen.--Karljoos (talk) 14:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way Japan doesn't allow double citizenships, so she's either Japanese OR British, but not both. Now, here's a quote from Order of the British Empire:

Honourary knighthood, given to individuals who are not nationals of a realm where Queen Elizabeth II is Head of State, permit usage of the honour as a post-nominal but not as a title before their name. These recipients are classified as honorary members of the Order they receive, and do not contribute to the numbers restricted to that (...)

She received an Honourary knighthoods, so that means she's no a British citizen, and she can't be listed as such, even though she lives in the UK right now. --Karljoos (talk) 14:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

She got an honorary CBE, but all indications are taht her DBE is substantive - the honour was gazetted, which doesn't happen with honorary awards, and she seems to be entitled to use Dame, which she wouldn't be if it were an honorary award. There's no implication in the formulation Japanese-British that one is a citizen of both countries. David Underdown (talk) 14:47, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

No mention here for example fo it being honorary, compare with the BBC report of her CBE, which specifically says that was honorary. Compare also the 2001 New Year list as Gazetted, "No. 56070". The London Gazette (). 30 December 2000. - note that her honorary CBE is not included in this main list. David Underdown (talk) 15:02, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Um... Why not simply say she is "Japanese-born" in the lead and leave out the "British"? And why have all the extra explanation/conjecture about her citizenship in the Honours section. The honours and their references should be enough. The Gazette evidence makes it pretty clear that the DBE was not honorary. Readers are quite capable of extrapolation. Whether and when she became a British citizen is pretty minor aspect of a very major career. This article has only the briefest sketch of her career, no recordings section, and virtually nothing on critical appreciation, despite extensive reviews in the press over many years. Wouldn't editorial energy be better spent in that direction? Voceditenore (talk) 15:53, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

There is an implication in the formulation Japanese-British that one is a citizen of both countries... otherwise, what does it mean? Where does the “British” in the formulation “Japanese-British” come from? What makes her British is a Passport and sources indicate that she does not have one. The BBC says that she is a citizen of Japan and that the knighthood was honorary. I cite from the BBC's website: "The Queen has approved the following honorary appointments on the advice of the Foreign Secretary (...) Ms Mitsuko Uchida, citizen of Japan, for services to music". (Also The Independent) . She’s not Japanese-British, she's not “Japanese-born”, she IS Japanese. --Karljoos (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Those relate to her appointment as CBE in January 2000, which was indeed honoray, however, when she was promoted DBE in June this year, all the evidence is that that was a substantive honour, indicating that she must have obtained British citizenship in the interim. Actaully I see that the original form used in teh article was Japanese-born British, which does indeed indicate taht she is a British citizen, which the latest, substantive, honour shows to be the case, but doesn't necessarily indicate either way on her Japanese citizenship. Nor does Japanes-British, thinking about it again, this does suggest she is a British national, which once again is suggested by the weight of the evidence, but again does not necessarily indicate she also holds Japanese citizenship, it would perfectly justifiably be used to describe someone of Japanese parentage, born in the UK, and holding British citizenship. David Underdown (talk) 19:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

If she holds British citizenship then she can't be Japanese, so then it would be correct to say "Japanese-born British (...)" --Karljoos (talk) 20:48, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

which is what the article does say. David Underdown (talk) 20:58, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. A source/reference is still needed, though.--Karljoos (talk) 10:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The fact she been given a substantive honour shows she has taken British citizenship. David Underdown (talk) 10:38, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It is technically possible that she has taken Jamaican citizenship, or Canadian, or New Zealand, or Australian or ..., rather than British per se, but I think it's far, FAR, FAR more likely that her citizenship is British. Demanding a citation for this is taking our rules too far. -- JackofOz (talk) 10:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not possible she's other than a British citizen. If she took out Canadian citizenship she wouldn't receive a British honour. For the others the award would be listed as an appointment on the advice of that Commonwealth realm. For example, Kiri Te Kanawa's Damehood is listed in the London Gazette as on the advice of 'Her Majesty's New Zealand ministers'. See [3]--Stevouk (talk) 16:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

That isn't necessarily always the case. See Garfield Sobers - In the 1975 New Year Honours List, Queen Elizabeth II created Sobers a Knight Bachelor for his services to cricket. The award was made in the British Diplomatic and Overseas section of the list, rather than on the nomination of the Government of Barbados, which had stopped putting forward recommendations for British honours. This caused the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office some unease, as shown by papers released by The National Archives in 2005. However, since Barbados had not yet introduced its own system of honours, the Prime Minister of Barbados was pleased that an honour would be forthcoming for Sobers. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but Uchida's DBE was in the main list, not the FCO list. As mentioned above, it is possible that she could hold citizenship of another Commonwealth Realm, as such people also receive substantive awards, when resident in the UK (Canada has objected to this in the past), but as there's no evidence she's been resident in any other Commonwealth country for any substantial period, Occam's razor applies. David Underdown (talk) 14:09, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I agree entirely. We were just shooting the hypothetical breeze.  :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Miho

Is Miho Uchida, also a pianist, and active in Karlsruhe (Germany), related? 83.76.209.55 (talk) 17:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Picture?

Ah , here is a suitable kind of newbie type place to ask whether a picture would be a good thing, she has wonderful expressive face which shows her character as an artist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.81.240 (talk) 18:34, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

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