Talk:Murder of Huang Na

Latest comment: 3 years ago by Tokyo12489 in topic Motive for the tragedy?
Good articleMurder of Huang Na has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 11, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
September 16, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
April 17, 2010Good article nomineeListed
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 10, 2022, and October 10, 2023.
Current status: Good article

Images

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Since both the victim and the perpetrator of the murder are deceased, the use of copyrighted images of them might be justified as fair. Something to think about. — Cheers, JackLee talk 16:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

Some quick Googling turned up two articles in The Star which contain photos of Huang Na and Took Leng How. Huang Na is so kawaii! These photos would certainly enhance the article - a picture is worth a thousand words. But we need an image expert to write the fair-use rationales, tweak the image code and handle all the other dirty work. Haemo, who helped me with the screenshots in my GAs about Jack Neo movies, has been inactive this year - who should we approach instead? --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 10:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
I should be able to help. The pictures look quite small, but after you download them just check that their resolution is 72 dpi. Don't upload them on to the English Wikipedia immediately – let me know by leaving a message here which images you have chosen, and I will prepare the templates. Then you can upload the images together with them. — Cheers, JackLee talk 14:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
For Huang Na: this photo from this article
For Took Leng How: this photo from this article.
I suggest you do the uploading to avoid confusion. Thanks. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 04:24, 19 July 2009 (UTC)Reply
  Done. — Cheers, JackLee talk 17:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

Quick comments per IRC

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A brief look over the article; just comments, suggestions, and thoughts, all IMHO.

  • That would also allow more ref detail - I'd like to see publisher details, etc. For example, one ref says "TODAY" and there are many pubs with that name. External convenience links would be good, too.
  • Dates shouldn't be linked
  • Could add Chinese chars for name with appropriate template
  • Woodlands is a disambig link
  • Add an infobox, perhaps infobox person?
  • No pictures?
  • Bai jin is a redlink, and I've no idea what it is; perhaps put something in brackets to clarify
  • "China PR" - not sure, and I know this is contentious, but I wonder why this isn't just "China"
  • "seek his fortune" - a direct quote like this requires an immediate reference to source, directly after the quote (even when mid-sentence)
  • "worked illegally as a vegetable packer" - potentially controversial info in a Bio, hence a ref is needed
  • "she divorced him and was given custody of Huang Na" - maybe confusing; I assume SHE got custody, but needs clarification
  • "whom she had lived with for four years, and became pregnant" maybe confusing, suggest "whom she had lived with for four years, and subsequently became pregnant"
  • No 'see also' or 'external links' applicable?

 Chzz  ►  12:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

Italics for newspaper titles

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WP:MOSTITLE#Italics: "Italic type (text like this) is generally used for the following categories of titles: ... Periodicals (newspapers, journals, and magazines) ..." — Cheers, JackLee talk 08:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

Added

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I have added an infobox, an External links section, and moved some lines about.--andreasegde (talk) 11:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for trying to improve the article! Some of your changes were very helpful, but some were not. For example, birthdates of minors should not be included and the infobox may be inappropriate since the article is not about the girl, but a murder case involving her (and others). I did a massive temporary rollback so I can go through your changes and restore the helpful ones. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 07:54, 11 September 2009 (UTC)Reply
I just want to put on record that i dont agree with The Special ones suggestions on infobox. Infoboxes is not always bad as suggested by many editors. here it gives a picture of huang na, and ofcourse her birthdate should be visible etc etc..--Judo112 (talk) 20:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

This article has no chance of a GA: "the article is not about the girl", and, "a murder case involving her (and others)". Good grief... It's amazing. How blind can one be? I feel sorry for her, but not the turmoil the article is going through. Goodbye.--andreasegde (talk) 21:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)Reply

Goodbye and good luck with your editing. I understand I may be harsh, but BLP1E and privacy concerns warrant such caution. Back to GA writing for me. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 13:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

I also disagree with Hildanknight regarding the infobox. It's true that this article is not about the girl but her murder but it is about her murder and so the infobox is reasonable. As for WP:BLP and privacy issues, these issues are largely mooted by the fact that the girl is no longer living; the "L" in BLP stands for "living" after all. I think the article is improved by the infobox. AFAIK, there is little information in the infobox that is not in the article except perhaps the girl's birthdate. Presumably this information is a matter of public record and, as I said, not an invasion of privacy since the girl is now deceased. More importantly, this whole sorry episode has been marked by edit warring, a lack of collegiality and a lack of civility. Even if you think you're right, it's better to explain why you think you're right than to assert your rightness in a snippy fashion.

--Richard (talk) 16:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

I don't have time right now to survey a group of articles similar to this one. I will point out that John F. Kennedy assassination has an infobox about the assassination, not about JFK. However, that is arguably because there is an article about JFK with an infobox about him. I am still inclined to have an infobox in this article because I think they improve the look of an article. However, there is possibly some room to argue whether the infobox should be about the girl, the murder or both. --Richard (talk) 16:29, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

"Temporary massive rollback"

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Hildanknight, without getting into the details of your "temporary massive rollback", I would urge you not to do that kind of thing again on any article as it is disrespectful of other editors' work. You do not own this or any other article. If you disagree with changes, you can revert individual changes on a case-by-case basis subject to collaboration models such as WP:BRD. Wholesale reversion should be reserved for vandalism or other extreme cases of poor editing.

In particular, just because you went on wikibreak does not give you the right to revert back to your preferred version. If you go on wikibreak or even stop watching an article for an extended period of time, you should respect the state of the current article and negotiate any reversions.

Wikipedia would be much less stable if people could go away for weeks or months and then arbitrarily revert the work of editors that has been done in the intervening period.

I don't doubt that some of the changes were harmful and that you had good reason for your reversion. Nonetheless, the better approach would have been to fix the problems that you saw on a case-by-case basis with edit summaries to let people know what the problems were that you were fixing. Even better would have been to document the problems on the Talk Page first and then fix them.

--Richard (talk) 16:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Murder of Huang Na/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Nikkimaria (talk) 19:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Hello! I'll be conducting a review of this article to ensure it meets the GA criteria. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 19:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

I'm placing the article on hold to allow contributors to address the below concerns. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 20:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)Reply
Hello, Nikkimaria! Thanks for the review! Unfortunately, you could not have chosen a worse time to review this; I have exams this coming week! I will do what I can in between study sessions, but please be patient! --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 11:59, 20 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

Writing and formatting

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Accuracy and verifiability

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Broad

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  • Given that there is no separate article on Huang Na or Took, it's good to have some detail on each. You've got a bit, but are missing some - for example, when was Huang Na born? What was Took's execution date?
  • More detail in general would probably be helpful; this appears to be a high-profile case in Singapore, surely more details are available?

Singapore is a little red dot with a population of less than five million people. There are only a few major Singaporean newspapers, all of which are by Singapore Press Holdings. Hence information is scarce, even for "a high-profile case". Some information was omitted due to BLP concerns (I know Huang Na and Took are both dead, but their family members are still alive, so I opted to err on the side of caution). --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 12:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Neutrality

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No issues noted

Stability

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  • No recent major edits to the article; however, I note a history of rolling back good-faith edits. Please keep in mind that such behaviour is discouraged. However, that was far enough in the past to be ignored in consideration of the article's current stability.
    Noted. That will not happen again. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 12:34, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

Images

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Other opinions

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Hi, i think personally that the article is almost GA ready. With the few exceptions pointed out by the reviewer. But i would say that it is GA ready when those fixes had been made.--Bödeln (talk) 14:02, 8 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

I posted an initial reply and was waiting for the reviewer to respond to it, but she did not, so I forgot about the review as I was busy with school. Now I am back and will continue addressing the issues she raised, but I hope she will be back too. --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 11:03, 16 April 2010 (UTC)Reply
As this article is now GA standard, is it possible to push it towards FA status? --Siva1979Talk to me 05:14, 15 May 2010 (UTC)Reply
I doubt so, considering how short the article is and that most Singaporeans are not native speakers of English (the key difference between the GA criteria and FA criteria is the prose standards). --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 12:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)Reply

Questions on dates

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While overall a well-written article, I have a couple questions about dates in the section on Took's trial.

  1. It says it was a 14-day trial that began on 11 July. Why was he pronounced guilty on 27 August? Is this a mistake, should it be "27 August"?
  2. It says Took was executed in October 2006. Can an exact date be added to the article?

- Boneyard90 (talk) 03:19, 5 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

Motive for the tragedy?

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I believe the perpretrator was mentally ill? Should i add that to the article? Tokyo12489 (talk) 16:27, 13 May 2021 (UTC)Reply