Talk:Murder of Mido Macia

[Untitled]

Notable for dying? This is not a famous person who was dragged to death. This is a person who became 'famous' after being dragged to death. This article needs reconsideration, and deletion if found not to conform to notability guidelines.86.112.67.18 (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Strongly Disagree. Article is clearly notable First, the aticle is about the death, not the person. Second, there may not be a more notable historical death in South Africa since Biko, depending on the response of the government and the people. For precedent, look at James Byrd Jr.an eerily similar event in the US perpetrated by racists, not police.TjoeC (talk) 18:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

There are errors in both the talk section and the main article.

MINOR CORRECTION:
(1) He was not "dragged to death", he was still alive (and very scared) when he entered the police station.
(2) His pants were missing when he entered the police station
(3) He was calling for help
source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21761515

POSSIBLE UNLAWFUL ARREST:
(1) Police and traffic are separate in South Africa. Police can control traffic -- this is for accidents, but it is strange police are arresting someone on a minor traffic incident, which did not involve a crime.
However I have found the following: http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&ArticleID=2892148 where it states: "a motorist can be arrested".... "Is willfully (sic) obstructing the roadway"
Normally a police officer will radio a traffic officer to come onsite to open the case. The police arrest seems suspicious, in this respect.

(2) Possible conflicts in the police versions
The initial reason given for arrest was that traffic offense. During the police officers court appearance, the defense lawyer 'alleged' that a case of culpable homicide for killing 5 minors had been opened prior to this. It is also alleged that the injuries sustained from this prior accident are the cause of death. NOTE the defense lawyer did not state this was the actual reason for his arrest. All we know there is a new story emerging of a culpable homicide case.

(3) Violation of his rights
It is clear his rights were violated, but there are procedure police need to follow to keep the arrest lawful
Police need to identify themselves. Explain the reason for arrest. Show the warrant or explain why he is being arrested without one. Make sure that he understands his rights.
Apparently this guy did not speak English or Zulu very well. Were the police able to communicate properly with him and explain the previous points? It seems unlikely, when taking into consideration their blatant violation of his rights, even in front of witnesses.

--- an expert witness *under oath* gave testimony which notes the cause of death was a prolonged beating while in the jail cell.
--- this news article seems to balance the 2 sides of the story, BUT we only know for sure that he died of horrific injuries. NOTE that the defense lawyer is not under oath, so is able make stuff up. What he says is not fact until the actual culpable homicide docket is presented to the court and the rebuttal witness gives testimony to the judge.
--- also strange is when accidents involving reckless driving these communities demand the life of the driver (take the case of 'jubjub' the community threated to kill him). It seems strange that the community was unaware of this incident.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Jub-Jub-Public-locked-out-20100317
--- even if guilty, the police conduct was wrong, and this is not a mitigating factor to their behavior in any way.
--- he was in good health before the arrest (8 police officers overpowered him). the defense suggestion that previous injuries were to blame, mean that this guy was on death bed. clearly he was not.
<blue>The prosecution had argued that Mr Macia had suffered extensive injuies, culminating in hypoxia - a lack of oxygen supply to the body - causing his death.
"There were no organs that were not damaged, [not] his heart, lungs or spleen... Severe bruising to his arms shows he was desperately trying to fight for his life," prosecutor December Mthimunye said, South Africa's Times newspaper reports.
Police Commissioner Riah Phiyega: "The behaviour displayed in the video... is to be abhorred"
"His testes were severely swollen, showing huge trauma, a clear sign of 'torture' beating, which no one can explain.
"When he [Mr Macia] arrived at the [police] station, his pants were missing. He was crying, begging for help. They took him to the cell. Blood splatters on the walls and floor attest to the ferociousness [of the beatings]."</blue>

POSSIBLE CHARACTER ASSASSINATION

<blue> Defence lawyer Elias Tshole said the state had no case and that Mr Macia was no angel: "The deceased is not the man everyone is making him out to be... Just days before he died he was involved in a horrific accident that killed five innocent children."
Mr Tshole said medical experts would show that Mr Macia's injuries were sustained in
</blue>
CAUSE OF DEATH
(4) as the above testimony states, he died in police cell. the dragging sets a bad example for the police, but the fact that hours of torture took place in a police cell are shocking beyond belief.

105.236.40.9 (talk) 21:42, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

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