Talk:Muslim Makwana

Please do not remove any cited sources

Clearly, the Makwana clan belongs to the Koli community. The Kolis are a separate and distinct community from the Rajputs, and please do not change any factual information on article. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 05:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Makwanas are Kolis and Rajputs, but please do not remove any cited information of saying the Makwanas are a Koli clan. There are many clans found between Kolis and Rajputs, but doesn't mean one community should have an advantage over another in claims. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 05:52, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure why insertions originally made by an WP:LTA are being exactly reinserted into this article. Furthermore, you were adviced to seek consensus here before editing a stable version of this article, please do that. And if you insert merge notices to pages, the expectation is for you to put that merge notice where it is to be merged as well and start a proper templated discussion.

The fact that you re-edited this article to put it exactly inline with the POV of the sock also does not create a good faith assumption. The article since it was initially created has presented this community as a distinct one which claims affiliation to another (which I have now moved down further into the body to further abate POVPUSH problems). If this same community claims affiliation with another add that, but if a mere similarly named sub-community also exists within another do insert it here. The new article (Makwana Koli) which was created does exactly that severing this from here; though I suspect it was created by the LTA itself but since it abates the problem of this article we need not conflate them as such. Gotitbro (talk) 21:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Now that the separate Koli article (for obvious socking) has been deleted my advice for you would be to use sources which pertain to this community directly (and not sources which mainly treat Koli or others and their subgroups i.e. the sock sources which you re-inserted) and if they present the claims as such put them down in the body of the article where I have moved the other affiliations as well. And lastly please keep NPOV in mind, your last edits put certain claims over others, an equal treatment is to be given including for Hindu-Muslim aspects as well. Do not remove cats like you last did as well. Short descriptions are to be simple not a source for ethnic puffery, use descriptives such as "Social group of Gujarat" in articles where contentions exist. I am just coming from an extensive sock discussion (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Thakor Sumant Sinhji Jhala) whose edits you have restored and any exact repeat of those will be considered an adverse presumption. Gotitbro (talk) 21:44, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

@No2WesternImperialism: This is the nth time you have uncritically reinserted sock edits of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Thakor Sumant Sinhji Jhala.

The page as it stands now makes no claims in the lead of whatever this separate community claims descent from, for an NPOV I moved them way down in the body. Your repeated insertions of a similarly named clan of another caste should have no bearing on this article (start a new article for it if you want to but hijacking and WP:COATRACKING articles is clearly not the way to go).

If you continue this disruption of repeatedly restoring that sock networks dubious edits in violation of WP:CASTE, an WP:ANI handling would be required. It is best you desist with this type of editing behaviour. Gotitbro (talk) 14:44, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

Excuse me? But there are other sources of saying Makwanas are also Kolis. I do apologize for reverting sock edits, but I feel you are trying to hide information to keep on the article. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 16:17, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

@No2WesternImperialism Someone has been using confirmation bias in their searches & then not even reading the biased results correctly. Searching for "makwana koli" is not a great idea but failing to actually even read the stuff properly is a WP:CIR matter and, if frequent, should lead at least to a topic ban from caste articles.

They are also ignoring WP:RAJ. - Sitush (talk) 20:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Gujarat_State_Gazetteers_Mehsana/HbphAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=makwana+koli+clan&dq=makwana+koli+clan&printsec=frontcover

This link can even prove my other point on Gujarati Rajputs. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 03:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Makwanas are both a Koli and Rajput group

Please understand that Makwanas are both a Koli and Rajput group. There are many communities (clans) in Gujarat which have the same name but can be divided into Kolis and Rajputs. Examples would be Jhalas, Parmars, and even Solankis. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

@No2WesternImperialism Sources? - Sitush (talk) 20:34, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Gujarat_State_Gazetteers_Vadodara/wIxhAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=makwana+koli&dq=makwana+koli&printsec=frontcover No2WesternImperialism (talk) 03:35, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

This was a source in 1975, well after the end of the Raj era No2WesternImperialism (talk) 03:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

I feel you're doing caste supremacy trying to present information of one caste only and not showing it for the other. No2WesternImperialism (talk) 03:36, 27 September 2023 (UTC)