Talk:Muzaffarids (Iran)

Muzaffarids Ethnicity

This page needs to acknowledge that the Muzaffarids were ethnically of Arab origin. Calling them a Persian dynasty improperly makes people assume that it was an ethnically Persian group. I suggest switching the term to "Persianate" to clarify that while Arab in origin, they learned Persian and adopted Persian customs and traditions.

Their ancestors came to Persia 700 years before their rise to power, being of Arab origin does not mean being ethnic Arabs. They were Persianized, this is why the source says "Persian dynasty".---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Then remove "ethnic" and keep the "Arab origin" as the source says. And that's exactly why I wrote Persianate to show that they were Persianized. However, if we know they were Arabs, then that identity was at the very least preserved and known to history. Khorasani Arabs are an endangered identity. Ibn Nader (talk) 23:30, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

You fail to get the point, again, they were not Arabs, they were of Arab origin, this is why the source says they were a Persian dynasty.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

So, once again, we can still keep that they were of Arab origin. And I still don't understand why my properly sourced material about their allegiance to the Abbasid Caliphate and their efforts to restore orthodox Sunni Islam were removed? How is no source acceptable but the Encyclopedia Iranica isn't?Ibn Nader (talk) 23:54, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Also, look at the page for Arabs in Khorasan in Wikipedia. Not all of them speak Arabic but they maintain and allege their Arab ancestors and identify as such. We can keep "Persian" but it is important to acknowledge and differentiate them from those Persians who only know themselves to be from Iran and of the Persians. Ibn Nader (talk) 23:58, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Per, The Encyclopaedia of Islam, Vol. VI, page 820;"MUZAFFARIDS, one of the successor dynasties which arose in Kirman, Fars and 'Irak-i'Adjam following the disintegration of the Ilkhanid empire. Their ancestor, Ghiyath al-Dm al-Hadjdji, was allegedly a member of an Arab family from Khwaf, in Khurasan, who during the Mongol advance had migrated to Yazd and entered the service of its atabeg."

Per, The New Islamic Dynasties, C.E.Bosworth, page 264;"The Muzaffarids, distantly of Khurasanian Arab origin rose to power in Kirman, Fars and 'Iraq-i 'Ajam or Jibal and the Il Khanid empire decline."

Per, Jalayirids: Dynastic State Formation in the Mongol Middle East, Patrick Wing, page 8;"The Muzaffarids were a local dynastic family."

Per, The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia, René Grousset, page 426;"The Arabo-Persian Muzaffarids of Fars were rivals of the Jelairids..."

Per, Women, Religion and Culture in Iran, Sarah Ansari, Vanessa Martin, page 13;"Alternatively it may be that the Muzaffarid dynasty, who ruled Fars after the fall of the Il-Khanids and for the greater part of Bushaq's life, although claiming Arab descent, had been in Persia for six decades since the Muslim conquest and had been Persianized."

• "Also, look at the page for Arabs in Khorasan in Wikipedia."

Wikipedia articles can not be used to reference other Wikipedia articles.

• "Not all of them speak Arabic but they maintain and allege their Arab ancestors and identify as such."

You have a reference for this? Where?

• "We can keep "Persian" but it is important to acknowledge and differentiate them from those Persians who only know themselves to be from Iran and of the Persians."

coughbattleground commentcough --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:18, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Ibn Nader: The Arab origins of the dynasty are described in the body of the article, take a look at Muzaffarids (Iran)#Rise to power. I have no objections as to add some content about the dynasty's allegiance to the Abbasids of Egypt ( in the "Rise to power" section ), but please drop that Emirate stuff that is not supported by any cited source.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 23:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Relation to Abbasid Caliphate

Muzaffarids were not a monarchy in the traditional sense. I provided sourced information that they had pledged allegiance to the Abbasid Caliph, representing a Caliph, and their founded Amir Mubariz al Din used the title Emir. It is more appropriate to call it an emirate than a monarchy.