Talk:Namikawa Sōsuke

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Vases by Namikawa Sōsuke

• ... that Namikawa Sōsuke and Namikawa Yasuyuki, famous enamel artists of Meiji era Japan, (work pictured) were unrelated, despite identically pronounced family names? "Wagener's advice was a critical factor in the careers of the two most famous enamelers of the Meiji Era, Namikawa Yasuyuki (1845-1927) of Kyoto and Namikawa Sosuke (1847-1910) of Tokyo. Despite their identically pronounced surnames (which are, however, written with quite different Chinese characters), the two men were unrelated, an odd fact which only served to heighten Western amazement at the seemingly miraculous output of their respective factories" Earle, Joe (1999). Splendors of Meiji : treasures of imperial Japan : masterpieces from the Khalili Collection. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Broughton International Inc. p. 254. ISBN 1874780137. OCLC 42476594.
• ALT1 ... that Namikawa Sōsuke and Namikawa Yasuyuki, famous enamel artists of Meiji era Japan (work pictured) with identically pronounced family names, were unrelated?

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Meine engen Grenzen; Template:Did you know nominations/KFNB
• Comment: Namikawa Sōsuke was expanded from 307 B readable prose on 21 May to 3709 B on 26 May (Using Wikipedia:Prosesize)

5x expanded by MartinPoulter (talk). Self-nominated at 13:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC).

• Neither hook is interesting because such a thing was not unusual then and it still is not unusual for any culture. The third reference is an unreliable WordPress blog. - I just read the About page and it's reliable. SL93 (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
• Just the modern era for reference. SL93 (talk) 20:55, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

• ALT3 ... that Namikawa Sōsuke (work pictured) and Namikawa Yasuyuki, enamel artists of Meiji era Japan, were both appointed Imperial Household Artists in 1896? "Out of seventy individuals appointed to the order of Teishitsu Gigeiin between 1890 and 1944, twenty-four were lacquerers, potters, metalworks, enamellers, and swordsmiths, [...] In 1896 the largest ever number of decorative artists was appointed: [...] Namikawa Yasyuki and Namikawa Sosuke in enamels [other recipients are listed]" Earle, Joe (1999). Splendors of Meiji : treasures of imperial Japan : masterpieces from the Khalili Collection. St. Petersburg, Fla.: Broughton International Inc. p. 348. ISBN 1874780137. OCLC 42476594.. MartinPoulter (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

• The article is long enough and new enough. I assume good faith on the references that I can't read. I'm approving ALT3 as it is better than the main relation being their name. SL93 (talk) 19:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote ALT3, but the article doesn't mention anything about Namikawa Yasuyuki being named an Imperial Household Artist in 1896. Why do we even need to mention him? Yoninah (talk) 22:25, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: 1) They are the only two cloisonne artists with this distinction, and they are both mentioned in the same source. In fact most of the sources that mention one mention the other. 2) Personally I would like him to be mentioned because I five-times-expanded the article, but it was done in a bit more than a week, so this strictly doesn't qualify to be a double nomination. I realise that maybe doesn't carry much weight. So, I've added a mention of Yasuyuki to the Reception section of the Sosuke article. But if this just isn't acceptable, I'm happy to propose a variant of the hook that doesn't mention Yasuyuki. MartinPoulter (talk) 09:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• @MartinPoulter: Are you saying you completed the expansion of Namikawa Yasuyuki within 13 days of this nomination? Well, I would be willing to IAR and make this a double nomination. Please add a bit more of being one of the only two cloisonne artists named an Imperial Household Artist to the body of Namikawa Yasuyuki, and rewrite ALT2 to mention the fact that they were the only 2 promoted in 1896. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 09:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: I can add the information to the article with a source that I found, but they were not the only two because Imperial Household Artist lists 11 of them for that year. SL93 (talk) 02:31, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you, SL93, but we need to wait for MartinPoulter to respond here. If they aren't the only ones, we'll go back to just mentioning Sōsuke. Yoninah (talk) 19:40, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

• @SL93 and Yoninah: Note what I claim above: "They are the only two cloisonné artists with this distinction". Imperial Household Artist lists 11 artists given the award in that year. As the source I quote above says, "In 1896 the largest ever number of decorative artists was appointed" but you can verify from Imperial Household Artist, these were the only two cloisonné artists ever to get this designation. However, I haven't been able to find a reliable source that explicitly states that they were the only two cloisonne artists given that distinction.(see below) It's easy to find sources stating that they both were appointed to Imperial Household Artist in that year (Earle's book, Jackson's History of Cloisonne Enamels in Japan, and others) so that more cautious statement is the link between them that I'm offering as a hook. MartinPoulter (talk) 09:00, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
• Found this via Google Books: "Both Namikawas were the only cloisonné artists ever appointed Imperial Household Arts and Crafts members." Baekeland, Frederick (1980). Imperial Japan: The Art of the Meiji Era, 1868-1912 : an Exhibition. Herbert F. Johnson Museum of Art, Cornell University. p. 184. Then on page 185 "Ultimately he was one of only two cloisonné artists to be appointed an Imperial Household Arts and Crafts member." MartinPoulter (talk) 09:28, 20 July 2020 (UTC) This fact and cite now added to both articles. MartinPoulter (talk) 10:04, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
• ALT4 ... that Namikawa Sōsuke (work pictured) and Namikawa Yasuyuki were the only two cloisonné artists appointed as Imperial Household Artists? MartinPoulter (talk) 10:20, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah: ALT4 seems to work and it was added to the articles. I can sign off on it if you're fine with it. SL93 (talk) 17:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• @SL93: sounds good to me. Yoninah (talk) 19:16, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• Approving ALT4. SL93 (talk) 20:38, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

• Since I suggested making it a double nom, I'm contributing a QPQ. Yoninah (talk) 21:26, 20 July 2020 (UTC)