Talk:National Directorate of Intelligence and Prevention Services

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Luis Posada Carriles

@WMrapids: Hi. From what I gather, the latest inclusion about Luis Posada Carriles has been in order to support content about the alleged CIA infiltration in the DISIP. One of the first problems that I can see, though, is WP:SYNTH, given that the added sources such as The New York Times' do not mention the DISIP.

The updates don't mention that he was dismissed by Carlos Andrés Pérez in 1974, or that at the time his relationship with the CIA was already deteriorating, which considered him a liability and not an asset. If we want to focus on the history of the DISIP, is probably for the best to avoid the mentions about the CIA.

Other recent neutrality issues include the comparisons with the Dirección de Seguridad Nacional. NoonIcarus (talk) 01:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@NoonIcarus:

1. the latest inclusion about Luis Posada Carriles has been in order to support content about the alleged CIA infiltration in the DISIP. One of the first problems that I can see, though, is WP:SYNTH, given that the added sources such as The New York Times' do not mention the DISIP. Let me take a look at the synthesis issues. I know there are multiple sources about the CIA funding Posada during this period.
2. The updates don't mention that he was dismissed by Carlos Andrés Pérez in 1974, or that at the time his relationship with the CIA was already deteriorating Can you provide the sources on that? Did I miss that in one of the sources I used?
3. If we want to focus on the history of the DISIP, is probably for the best to avoid the mentions about the CIA. Why not mention the CIA when multiple sources say it had infiltrated DISIP? The CIA funding the heads of DISIP has been documented in multiple sources.
4. neutrality issues include the comparisons with the Dirección de Seguridad Nacional. Finally source directly says that the governments after the Punto Fijo pact used DISIP in a similar capacity as the Dirección de Seguridad Nacional.

Thank you for engaging in discussions with me. It already feels a lot more healthy than edit warring. I know you have discussed the deadline being now in the past, so it's important that we both recognize that we should be patient when we enter these lengthy dialogues. WMrapids (talk) 17:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

@NoonIcarus: Regarding #2, you attempted to add this without providing any source. Where is your source on this? Also, please discuss things here on the talk page and not through edit summaries.--WMrapids (talk) 10:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@WMrapids: Interestingly enough, it comes from the same source you provided: Bardach, Ann Louise (2002). Cuba Confidential: Love and Vengeance in Miami and Havana. Random House. pp. 184–186. ISBN 978-0-375-50489-1., which comes from the Luis Posada Carriles main article and I can imagine could be one of the places where you found the source. Yet, it does not originally say that he was involved with the torture of left-wing activists, and since I was not able to find said description in the book it would be helpful if you could provide the original source where you took this information from.

Said same article goes into detail on how complicated his relationship with the CIA was:

At approximately the same time, Posada's relations with the CIA also deteriorated. The agency began to suspect that he was involved in cocaine trafficking and dealing in counterfeit money. Posada was not confronted with these allegations to avoid compromising existing operations, but internal CIA communications referred to him as a serious liability. The Church Committee hearings of 1975, which had been triggered by fears that the CIA were running too many rogue operations, had a significant impact on the agency, and Posada's association was seen to be "not in good odor". In February 1976, the CIA officially broke off relations with Posada. Subsequently, Posada made several efforts to get back into the agency's good graces, including informing on an alleged plot by Bosch to kill Henry Kissinger, then US Secretary of State.

To achieve a neutral point of view, we have to include all of the facts about his relationship with the agency, but it is much easier to omit this since at the end this is an article about the DISIP. --NoonIcarus (talk) 21:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Information has been restored. Multiple sources report that the CIA was funding high-level officials of DISIP. Posada, the first leader of DISIP, is notable and his relationship with the CIA is also appropriate for this article. This has nothing to do with NPOV. WMrapids (talk) 00:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

@WMrapids: You're not responding to the issues at hand: you're not addressing how the CIA already considered Posada a liability and not an asset at the moment, how he was dismissed from the agency by CAP and, most importantly here, where did you find the information to claim that he was involved with the torture of left-wing activists. This has more to do just with "CIA funding of the DISIP". --NoonIcarus (talk) 00:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)