Talk:Ngāti Hotu

massive changes in meaning with no sources.

I just removed some unsourced edits, but now that I've looked through the history, it seems like it's said completely different stuff at different times, but no-one ever added more sources. For instance this section was in it at one point: "Ngāti Hotu were beileved to have been part of the Tini o Toi Tribes of the Bay of Plenty and tradition describes Ngāti Hotu as 'a very fierce and warlike people' whom it took many generations of warfare to destroy, beginning from around the year 1450. Other traditions describe them as spirit people, which as is typical in Māori tradition, were of non-Māori appearance, having reddish hair and skin, symbolising their tapu nature." i've just left all this stuff here so people know that I wasn't just removing stuff for the fun of it. I'll see if I can track down the sources (or maybe other ones from more recently than the seventies...) and fix the rest of it then.122.61.157.138 (talk) 17:19, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

More sources would be good, but they need to be mainstream sources rather than conspiracy-theory websites. In the meantime, I've reverted the lead to the version which is compatible with accepted New Zealand history.-gadfium 20:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

The phrase "of non-Maori appearance" seems a bit conspiracy theory to me. It is unsourced and would not have occurred in the original traditions. Piwaiwaka (talk) 22:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Potential sources for references...

Blog: ... "We have been in occupation of Taurewa Te Rena since the beginning of time and I believe we would have remained so at Kakahi, Raurimu, Kaitieke and areas around Retaruke (17km from Taumarunui), if the Crown hadn’t purchased these lands. “It was evidence by Tuwharetoa that made us extinct. We were made extinct because we were never going to sell the land. How can we stand up for our land when we are told we don’t exist? No historian has ever gone out and looked for descendants of Ngati Hotu - until now.”" ... [1]

NevilleDNZ (talk) 13:41, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Transactions of the New Zealand Institute, 1909.

... "One of Tamatea's sons migrated to inland Patea about eighteen generations ago. His name was Tama-kopiri. He was the founder of the Ngati Tama Tribe. He came from Tu-ranga, but the present-day Natives at that place do not recognise him as one of Tamatea's sons. If not a son of the captain of the Takitumu, he was certainly descended from one of the Tamateas of that period—probably Tamatea Kopiri.

PS : Im just going to quickly write this note +++ Tamatea Kopiri was the son of Turanga-i-Mua, who was in turn a son of Turi, Commander of the Aotea Waka. A google preview for Tony Sole's book, Ruanui is on line. That whakapapa is well known. Also as I understand it, Tamatea-Arikinui was the Commander of Takitimu. His son was Rongokako, and in turn Rongokako's son, was Tamatea-Pokai-Whenua (Tamatea who encircled land) aka. Tamatea-Urehaea (Tamatea the Circumcised one). He is the Father of Kahungunu. He also had a family in Whanganui and a ton of places are named after him on the River. As for Tama-Kopiri who warred with Ngati Hotu, have a look in books to do with Moawhango, that was his main place. Wehikore 11:23, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

I have obtained a few notes relating to his wars, also an account of his death, which is worth placing on record, and is as follows:—

Tama-kopiri came to Patea with a taua, and made war on the Ngati Hotu there (the Ngati Hotu were an aboriginal tribe formerly owning Taupo). He was victorious, and so went on to Kaki-kino, where he again found the Ngati Hotu gathered, and a second time he attacked and conquered. He also found them at O-tama-kura, on the edge of the Opakaru bush, also at Ngapukara-nui and Pae-tutu, and in all these various engagements Tama-kopiri and his party were victorious. After all this fighting, the Ngati Tama, under the chief Tama-kopiri, attacked Te Kumete, which was the name of a settlement near Kauanga-roa belonging to Hai-rangi, who was the father of Kahu-kaka. At this place the daughter of Matapou, and granddaughter of Hai-rangi, was killed by Tama-kopiri. Her name was Tu-kai-rongo-reupea." ... [2]

TRANSACTIONS OF THE NEW ZEALAND INSTITUTE 1909 - VOL. XLII

... "The district mentioned, as well as other parts of New Zealand, seems to have been peopled with a numerous population long before the advent of the fleet in 1350 ; for when Tamatea visited the district — and to him is credited the honour of being the first to travel inland — he found a numerous people (the descendants of a former and forgotten migration) wherever he went, and if the story of the taniwha Tutae-poroporo is to be believed (and who would doubt it !) the Whanga-nui Valley and lower Rangi-tikei districts were thickly populated even in those early times ; while the additional evidence of the Ngati Hotu, an aboriginal tribe living round Lake Taupo, helps to prove the presence of people here long before the great migration of 1350 from Hawaiki." ...

JOURNAL OF THE POLYNESIAN SOCIETY CONTAINING THE TRANSACTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE SOCIETY. Vol. II. NGATI-HOTU.

... "Among other inland tribes of uncertain descent, of whom we have now only a tradition, may be mentioned the Ngati-Hotu, who at one time occupied Eastern and probably Western Taupo, and the Muri- motu District, south-east of Ruapehu Mountain. It has been held (I know not on what evidence) that this tribe is descended from one of the Hotu's who came in the Tainui canoe, but this contentio cannot be upheld for a moment against the Maori traditions as to the conquest of this tribe. We are told they were driven from Eastern Taupo, by Eawhia, son of Eurapoto whose genealogy I have given in my paper on *' Maori Migrations."* At this early period in Maori history, the Ngati-Hotu were a strong tribe, and no doubt Eawhia following the old Maori custom allied himself with one section to destroy the other. This war took place in the second generation after the arrival of the Arawa and Tainui canoes. "...

Story: Ngāti Tūwharetoa - Page 4 – Warfare

... "Ngāti Hotu

The Ngāti Hotu people were living in the Taupō district when the priest Ngātoroirangi and explorer Tia arrived. The tribe were referred to as ‘urukehu’ (fairy people) because of their unusual red hair and fair skin.

Threatened with invasion by Tūwharetoa groups from Kawerau, Ngāti Hotu sought to defend their rights. The chiefs of Tūwharetoa at the time were Tūrangitukua, Waikari and Ruawehea. With the support of Tūtewero from Kawerau the chiefs overwhelmed Ngāti Hotu, and the tribe of Tūwharetoa established its mana in the Taupō region."...[3]

Chapter 2: Ngā Iwi o te Kāhui Maunga

..."Ngāti Manunui said that they had occupied the Ōkahukura and Taurewa areas since they and other hapū of Ngāti Tūwharetoa defeated Ngāti Hotu at the battle of Te Whataraparapa (1650 to 1700) at Kākahi (outside the north-western boundary of the inquiry district) and Te Rena.86 As we will see later Ngāti Tamakana, Ngāti Hinewai, and Ngāti Hikairo also claim interests in this area. In closing submissions counsel for Ngāti Manunui also pointed out that Ngāti Manunui had objected to the transaction between Te Heuheu and other rangatira and the Crown concerning the ‘gifting’ of ngā maunga"... [4] NevilleDNZ (talk) 14:27, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

THE TANGATA WHENUA; OR, ABORIGINAL PEOPLE OF THE CENTRAL DISTRICTS OF THE NORTH ISLAND OF NEW ZEALAND. By W. E. Gudgeon.

..."Tamahina followed and reconoitred the new position from the Tikihope ridge, where he was joined by Turangatautahi of lower Whanganui with 200 men. Thus reinforced Tamahina felt sure of victory, and called out to the Ngati-Hotu:—“You who have eaten men, come out and fight.” The Ngati-Hotu responded, and crossed the Kakahi stream towards the position held by Whanganui; here they were met by the two chiefs, and utterly defeated. A small plain near the battle field is to this day called Whata-raparapa, because, after the battle, a staging was erected nearly a quarter of a mile in length, on which the legs of the dead warriors were hung, with the soles of the feet upwards, hence the name Whata-raparapa."... [5]

New Documentary about the Ngāti Hotu

Hello

In the following documentary, this very topic is treated and also features interviews with people alledgedly descending from the Ngāti Hotu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqci_tXGn94

One of the things that should be clarified in the article, is that they were not described as only having red hair, but were in fact described as also having blond hair; actually more often having the latter than red.

I thought that the documentary could be of interest for those involved in writing this article.

Regards - Okama-San (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

The "documentary" is based largely on the pseudo-historical ideas of Martin Doutre and Noel Hilliam. TVNZ withdrew them from its website after protests. It is clearly not suitable as a source in any article, and Wikipedia should not be promoting such material. See TVNZ doco claiming Celts were here before Māori has been removed from OnDemand service.-gadfium 21:38, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

These should be removed. Elocal Magazine is not credible. 2406:5A00:9272:5900:14E4:3289:DB7E:9272 (talk) 20:49, 28 April 2024 (UTC)