Talk:Niš rebellion (1841)

Subject

Older Bulgarian historiography call this a Bulgarian rebellion, however, this is erraneous since it originated in foreign sources focused on the wider rebellion in the Sanjak of Vidin. This article's subject is the rebellion in the Sanjak of Niš. Furthermore, the 1841 rebellions in the Ottoman Empire included Bosnia, Herzegovina, northern Albania, western Bulgaria and Niš Pashaluk, all of whom are, and should be, treated as separate as per qualitative research.--Zoupan 07:14, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

• Vladimir Stojančević (1988). Serbia and the Bulgarians, 1804-1878. Просвета. избио велики народни устанак 1841. године у бугарским крајевима на тери- торији видинског пашалука, кнез Михаило није могао помоћи, као што није помогао ни устанак српског становништва у крајевима нишког санџака. ... У јавности овај устанак је познат као буна хришћана, и премда је то био оружани антитурски покргт и српског и бугарског становништва у ниш- ком одн. видинском санџаку, убрзо се у Еврогш одомаћио назив „бугарска" буна.

Contemporary sources

Contemporary sources, including Serbian, called it Bulgarian uprising. That is confirmed in the article as by primary, as well as by reliable secondary sources, including Serbian. I see no reason why sourced content and even sources are deleted without clear explanation. Jingiby (talk) 18:14, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

User:Krassenko, may you provide a reliable source confirmimg the revolt was called Serbian in its own time, by contemporary observers, please. Jingiby (talk) 19:00, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

User:Krassenko, I have checked provided by you source deleted by me by mistake. Sandra Halperin, War and Social Change in Modern Europe: The Great Transformation Revisited, 2004, ISBN 9780521540155, p. 345. She clearly describes it as Bulgarian uprising and the participants as Bulgarians. Why did you falsify the source? Jingiby (talk) 19:05, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I have written "Serbian insurrection", she clearly describes it as "Serbian insurrection". (please check up correctly) You may mean the previous note which says "Bulgarian uprising". I did pick the "Serbian insurrection", as the date of April 1841 is displayed, just when the Nish rebellion started. Connections are clear. "У јавности овај устанак је познат као буна хришћана, и премда је то био оружани антитурски покргт и српског и бугарског становништва у ниш- ком одн. видинском санџаку, убрзо се у Еврогш одомаћио назив „бугарска" буна."": "In public this rebellion is known as a rebellion of christians, and even though it was an armed anti-Turkish movement of Serbian and Bulgarian population in the Nish and Vidin Sandzhak, it soon was domesticated as the "Bulgarian rebellion" in Europe." This sentences tells me, that it was known as a christian rebellion by Serbs and Bulgarians in public (this part should be mentioned as well, when you use this source). Otherwise, it seems like picking at will. I just have noted, that discussions are possible. I will include contemporary sources soon. Thank you.Krassenko (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

You are talking about the modern Serbian view, which is trying unsuccessfully to explain why in Europe, Serbia and in the Ottoman Empire the uprising was known as Bulgarian and not as Serbian. But the fact is, it was not known at the time as Serbian, and the population in the region was also considered Bulgarian, even in Serbia. Please do not change the historical facts. Jingiby (talk) 04:47, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

The point was, that you assume wrong and disruptive informations, like my sources I pointed out. Read my comment again, it says, that it was about the "Serbian insurrection", well noted, not a Serbian, but an independent source by Sandra Halperin. As much as I have noted, all the sources used about this topic are questionable sources of Bulgarian origin, national views about this topic. If working with sources, objective views are essential. I am not talking about modern Serbian views, but I work with international sources, in contrast to the used ones about this topic. Claiming it as Bulgarian, when historical sources tell it was mostly organized by Serbs, is just wrong. So when mentioning, that it was known as a "Bulgarian rebellion", you also need to let the readers know more about the details, otherwise it seems like picking at will, pointing out just one side of the view. Your information is wrong, in some (already used) sources it was described as a "Serbian rebellion", these lands were part of the Ottoman Empire, there have been nations around Nish, that's why it was mostly known as the Nish rebellion, not specifically as the Serbian or Bulgarian one. Some sources are also based on propaganda regimes back then, please consider historical events. This topic is more complex, than just pointing out one sided views. The population in this region was considered orthodox, people claimed themselves as Bulgarian or Serbian orthodox, which had more to do with religious influences, than ethnicity (e.g. the influences of the Bulgarian exarchate). Please stay with facts and don't work with one-sided views. More detailed informations and sources will follow. Krassenko (talk) 15:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C1:570B:E684:8832:1C37:217A:5FE0 (talk)

That is modern-day perspective. We discuss then perspective which is undoubted. It was called by all sides Bulgarian, whatever that meant. Jingiby (talk) 15:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Chronology of images

Jingiby, your recent edits seem to be unconstructive. Per my knowledge of WP:MOS and MOS:NUM that items should be chronologically ordered i.e when the events described happened - like in countless other articles. I fail to see any reasoning against this change. Regards. Kluche (talk) 20:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see the chronology in the newspapers articles. Jingiby (talk) 20:53, 2 December 2022 (UTC)