Talk:Nikki Cross

Requested move 6 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:31, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

---

Nikki A.S.H. → Nikki Cross – Plenty of page moves being made between Nikki A.S.H. (or rather Nikki A. S. H.) and Nikki Cross within the last 2 days, with the former being the previous ring name, and the latter the new ring name. Opening up a discussion seeking a consensus as to which name should this article be placed under. – robertsky (talk) 09:22, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Pinging those who have made page moves, requested TRs in recent history: @MB, @Telfordbuck, @Vjmlhds, @McPhail, @HHH Pedrigree. Your inputs would be appreciated. (The admin/PM who also processed the different TRs: @UtherSRG, @TheAafi, for your information and awareness). – robertsky (talk) 09:32, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Last year, the wrestler changed her name to Nikki A.S.H. Despite her previous work as Nikki Cross, people argumented that as Nikki ASH, she get more exposure. As Nikki ASH, she won the 24/7 title 10 times, the Women's Tag Team titles and, more important, The Money in the Bank and the Women's World title, two huge accomplishments. As ASH, she has more accomplishments and exposure, which is the WP:COMMONNAME. But fans just want to include the name the wrestler is using, using the old name is seen as lack of respect (a problem we have with pro wrestlers, since they change their ringnames quite often). Now, people say she is best know by Nikki Cross. If she was more famous and known as Nikki Cross, why did the article changed the name to Nikki ASH in first place? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:55, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

My point is that there is no real criteria or policy with pro wrestlers besides "it's the name he is using". The article changed to Cross to ASH (despite her previous work as Cross) because "it's the name she is using" and "she won the world championship". Now, the argument is "it's the name she is using" and "she worked as Cross in the past", with no mention of her accomplishments as ASH. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:07, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Speaking as a wrestler myself, talent like to be referred to by their current name, regardless of where their success was made. This of course applies to signed wrestlers, and not necessarily those on the independent circuit. It is clear that a character change has been made again, and therefore people will be looking for Nikki Cross when on wikipedia. Telfordbuck (talk) 13:44, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is written not just for wrestling fans, but for everybody, including people who doesn't watch wrestling or independent promotions. So, per WP:COMMONNAME, it's normal to use the name with more exposure (usually WWE, since it's the bigest company in the world). The first change, Cross -> ASH, happened because people said she had more exposure and won the World Title and the Money in the Bank, with no mention of her previous career as Cross. Now, People say she worked as Cross with no mention of the exposure and championships she gained as ASH. And I know, if she is released and uses another ringname, people will ask for the change with no mention of her previous WWE career, just "it's the name she is using". --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 15:43, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Wrestlers change names all the time, either due to gimmick changes, or going to another company where you can't use a copyrighted name. You can't be married to one particular name because of subjective reasons. Truthfully, all wrestler names (if they are active) should use the name they are currently working under. This would be like listing Tom Selleck as Magnum P.I. even though he has played a different character on Blue Bloods even longer than he was Magnum. Vjmlhds (talk) 14:24, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Not the same case. There is no actor which article is named after a character. Selleck never said "my artistic name is Magnum PI". Rowan Aktinson's article was never named "Mr. Bean". --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 15:43, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the move. She'd better known as Nikki Cross. She's also known as Nikki Cross again. I fail to see how heading an article under a wrestler's best known and current name is "disrespectful." This just seems like a debate because of one person again. The point in VJ's analogy is that you'd go by the character they've portrayed longest, but also relevancy. It's why One Man Gang is One Man Gang and not Akeem, for example. SkylerLovefist (talk) 17:53, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

If she was best known as Nikki Cross, why was the article moved to Ash in first place? Arguments given back then (ASH is the common name and most relevant charactr since she won the money in the bank, a world title and had more exposure) look like now aren't relevant. Also, the VJ argument about actors doesn'tstand up. Aarticles about actors aren't name after characters. Try to find an artist who changed the artistic name. HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:09, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Wonderful. That doesn't change the fact that she's better known as Nikki Cross. It was changed to Nikki ASH because that's the gimmick she was working at the time. It has no relevance to the fact she's now under her WP:COMMON NAME. She's currently known as Nikki Cross, she's spent most of her WWE tenure as Nikki Cross, she's best know as Nikki Cross... There's no actual argument against the move. I also feel like you don't understand what an analogy is. His point is that if actors were listed the same way, you'd go by which role they were most prominent in. I don't understand the "why was it moved" point either. It's Wikipedia. In the immortal words of a man named Dave, "things change." SkylerLovefist (talk) 03:50, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

As you said, the article was moved without a reason, just because "it's the name she is using", so every time a wrestler changes his name we change the name of the article ignoring Wikipedia policies. My point, as ASH she is a former Money in the Banks winner and World Champion, so it's her most relevant name. Maybe the name is changed in the future, but not two weeks after the new name. HHH Pedrigree (talk) 07:29, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

And yet again: Her most frequently used name is Nikki Cross. Regardless of whether she won titles, Cross is still her most common name. (I shouldn't have to point out that titles in wrestling are a work.) So far we have 3 against 1, so unless others show up agreeing with "keep it because fictional titles," it's looking like consensus is moving it back to her common name anyway. SkylerLovefist (talk) 09:29, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

• "Nikki ASH" "wrestler" returns 99,600 Google search results, while "Nikki Cross" "wrestler" returns 182,000. So prefer "Nikki Cross". McPhail (talk) 09:39, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

  Google results can be deceptive. For your two searches, I get 61,200 and 119,000 respectively. When I add -ASH to your 2nd search, I get 59,500. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:48, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Move to Nikki Cross. It satisfies common name and current name. When Nikki changed to the superhero gimmick, a name delay was appropriate as she was exiting a long established name. She is now returning to that name and while the A.S.H name has been somewhat established, evidence, such as the above mentioned google search, shows that the Nikki Cross name is more well known. My $0.02. Kjscotte34 (talk) 15:01, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Support Move - Nikki A.S.H. was just a gimmick phase - her true ring name is Nikki Cross. I see it as Baron Corbin using variations like King or Happy but returning to the core name. Plus, the Nikki A.S.H gimmick is definitely done for. User:Saimcheeda (talk) 11:25, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support per above. 162 etc. (talk) 23:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Nikki A.S.H. is just a gimmick, while Nikki Cross is her real ring name. Just like King Corbin and Happy Corbin are alternate gimmicks for Baron Corbin, the same case should also apply to Nikki Cross/A.S.H. Hansen Sebastian^Talk 03:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Professional wrestling has been notified of this discussion. Mann Mann (talk) 11:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Nikki Cross will be a more enduring name than Nikki A.S.H., which is a temporary gimmick now in the past. — Czello 11:32, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support. for reasons stated above.--FaithLehaneTheVampireSlayer 14:28, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support Almost a Super Hero is no more. While she achieved her biggest achievement as Nikki A.S.H. (winning Raw Women's Championship), it is not a strong rationale to keep that ring name because Nikki Cross is not a new ring name, character or gimmick. It is not too soon for this case. --Mann Mann (talk) 17:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
• Obvious Support It's now 10-1 in favor of moving...I'd say that's pretty definitive, no? Vjmlhds (talk) 18:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.