Talk:Nina Power

Citations Needed

This article is in serious need of citations. Drcchutch (talk) 20:58, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

article lacks credible citations ChuckBMZ (talk) 20:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Controversy, lawsuit (2019)

It seems the article’s subject is raising funds, alongside another complainant, for a lawsuit in the UK for being “Targeted, harassed and falsely labelled a fascist”. Obviously the fact that it has resulted in a libel lawsuit would suggest that this is a risky topic for a BLP, but a brief Google search agrees with my own experience: I had only heard of Power in relation to the anti-anti-fascism row, and came here looking for context, and indeed it seems that most of the recent articles about / appearances by the subject are connected to this controversy / related “cancelation”, though aside from the subject’s personal blog, not much recognizable as a reliable source.

So my question is, would a lawsuit both help to establish notability, as well as provide BLP-safe sources for this topic? --OrderOfNineNagles (talk) 23:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Notability

This article is extremely skimpy on independent third-party RSes, and it's been tagged over this lack for quite a while. What are the three best independent third-party RSes demonstrating Power's notability under WP:CREATIVE, WP:GNG or any other Wikipedia guideline? - David Gerard (talk) 18:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC

Might be a good redirect to her book What Do Men Want? which at least got four RS press reviews so would pass prima facie notability, unlike its author as such - David Gerard (talk) 20:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

As nobody in a month has come forth with sourcing actually about Power separate from the book, I'm redirecting the article there for now. If RSes show up about Power and not the book, we can always break it out again - David Gerard (talk) 19:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

If there were any book to redirect this to, it would be one regarding One dimensional woman (her most oft-cited work), but alas such an article does not yet exist. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 22:23, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

And if we're so desperate for sources on these sorts of works, I'd recommend:

• Monteverde, Giuliana (2014). Not All Feminist Ideas Are Equal: Anti-Capitalist Feminism and Female Complicity. Journal of International Women's Studies, 16(1), 62-75;
• Dolezal, Luna (2010) "Critiquing 'Consumer' Feminism". Hecate's Australian Women's Book Review, 22, (1).
• Writing as Praxis: Catherine Ryan Interviews Nina Power;
• One Dimensional Woman by Nina Power (Review);
• A review of One Dimensional Woman in Bitch Magazine;

Et cetera.

Redirecting to What Do Men Want? seems inadequate. Article surely needs to be expanded, and I think there's adequate sourcing to do that. But BLARing the article seems inadequate when so much sourcing exists. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 22:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I've temporarily restored the BLAR in light of the WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE concerns, though I do maintain that a reasonable draft for this individual can be written. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 22:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I mean if you wanna write it, please do! - David Gerard (talk) 23:34, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

If I can break in here, I think redirecting is unsound on the notability criteria; this is someone with a significant public profile as a philosopher over many years, and one of the central characters in Marx Reloaded in 2011. Rachel0898 (talk) 03:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I note that someone, for some odd reason, has removed all the references to her appearance in that film. I'm going to revert this, there was no logical reason for doing that. But you'll see her appearance confirmed on IMDB https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1884351/ Rachel0898 (talk) 03:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

She is a confirmed nazi now

Probably worth adding that to her bio 92.28.82.16 (talk) 00:01, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Added references to this, citing https://luketurner.com/Nina_Power/#messages Roobscoob (talk) 02:08, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

This is libelous comment being published by an unreliable source with an animus against the subject who is deliberately & maliciously taking an ironic comment out of context in order to alter its meeting. 103.170.73.37 (talk) 10:26, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

fuck off nazi 50.229.151.138 (talk) 19:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

There are many comments here actually. 75.185.211.58 (talk) 20:05, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

How is it libelous when the person saying it just won the libel lawsuit? 2600:100E:B080:A97C:798C:70D:27D6:EF46 (talk) 20:36, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Sources are strong. Judiciary and insolvency record. Feltmatress (talk) 10:04, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Agree that a judicial record is an adequate source to substantiate her political views as far right and her involvement in a neo nazi milieu. Drcchutch (talk) 20:19, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

She is also no longer editor with compact magazine Feltmatress (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Have restored references to the official court judgement and bankruptcy register. Have used the cite:court template which I am not familiar with, so would be grateful if someone who knows better could check that the parameters (case number, court name, etc) are entered correctly. Chaikney (talk) 11:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The government is libelous?[1]https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/eiir/IIRCaseIndivDetail.asp?CaseId=704486509&IndivNo=710057929&Court=HIGH&OfficeID=700000069&CaseType=B EnbyEditor (talk) 09:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:BLPPRIMARY "Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person." You need secondary sources to include this. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 12:37, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The text you removed was of the form "the court ruled", not "the named person is". Deliberately worded as a statement of fact and judicial record and not an assertion about the person.

Also it is a court ruling, not a transcript (which I take to mean "written record of evidence laid in court", not "judge's finding of fact"). If you feel that the wording can be tightened, grand, do so. But completely slicing it out is not justified. Restoring. Please do be precise about the issue you have with the text. Chaikney (talk) 12:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Those are "court records" and "other public documents". This article is a BLP. You need secondary sources to support any statement which has been or can be challenged. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 13:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

I have now raised the matter at BLP/N. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 13:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Apparently secondary sources that I do not have time to edit into the article or format properly:

• https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a9fc2ae0-4e8d-41ce-9e7c-0022b77c065a Luke Turner successfully defends libel action in key freedom of expression case
• https://www.5rb.com/news/claims-dismissed-in-libel-and-harassment-actions-in-miller-power-v-turner/

Chaikney (talk) 13:38, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The first appear to be some sort of PR-firm (via an aggregator), the second possibly some legal firm, involved I don't know, that one (5rb) may be good for "The case and the counterclaim was dismissed in November 2023." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Her bankruptcy order was reported/published in yesterday's London Gazette, listing Turner as petitioner: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4655863 — LittleDwangs (talk) 16:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks like WP:BLPPRIMARY to me, but I could be wrong. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:37, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

The claim that Power thinks transwomen do not face threats of violence seems to be false, there is no citation or quote. Having looked at the Warwick article it is refering to an article in Compact, which has no such claim. Please read https://www.compactmag.com/article/welcome-to-terf-island/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChuckBMZ (talk • contribs) 22:30, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

There was a citation on it, which linked to this article: https://theboar.org/2023/11/activists-protest-warwick-event-featuring-gender-critical-speaker/

In the article it contains the paragraph "Power’s talk was followed by a Q&A session, during which members of the audience asked questions about topics ranging from ‘slut-shaming’ to sexual assault. A Home Office report has suggested that crimes against transgender people in the UK have risen by 11% compared to last year. When asked about this trend, and whether she thought her remarks had contributed to it, Power disputed the notion that anti-transgender hate crime was a pressing issue. Referring to transgender women, she suggested: “Men who purport to be women are not victims of violence.” She added: “I don’t hate anybody – I’m just committed to reality”

So I think the quote is indeed real, I have restored the content to the article. GraziePrego (talk) 01:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Even if one accepts this student newspaper as a reliable source for a contentious claim about a living person, it's hard to see that this, or indeed almost anything in the section containing it is WP:DUE. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 07:56, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

A writer who has written a lot on gender, sex and feminism and who has taken stances known to be contentious, to the extent that it ended up in the UK High Court? It would be quite remarkable to not include criticisms that people have made of her politics and theories, especially as they relate to transgender people in public life.

And a quick look at the Boar turns up this (https://theboar.org/about/) quote from a TV journalist about them: "“A consistently high standard, like a fine regional newspaper with an outstanding magazine. The dedication of the staff to produce this newspaper on a weekly basis is incredible.”" which, when there's no claim that the story or quotations or false (and when NP is quoted/interviewed in the same piece) says to me that there's no good reason to call the source unreliable.

Chaikney (talk) 13:49, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Noe of which alters the fact that the Warwick Anti-Sexism Society is s student society whose opinions on issues carry no particular weight except perhaps in the minds of their own student newspaper. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 14:46, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

student newspapers are still newspapers and are considered reliable until otherwise. The incident is interesting... though, I will state there is probably a case to remove this incident if it isn't covered by more than one source, as per WP:PUBLICFIGURE/ Bluethricecreamman (talk) 15:00, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

2a02 anonymous IP user

Please stop doing WP:EDITWAR on a talk page, and stop editting other peoples comments.

Wikipedia has other tools, including IP blocks, for people who attempt to editwar, break policy, and refuse to participate in discussions when they keep editwarring. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Times source

Article currently references 'Brown, David (10 November 2023). "Twitter no place for debate, judge tells intellectuals". The Times. p. 19.' No trace of this can be found online. While offline sources are perfectly legitimate, it is strange that such a recent article is not online. Can anyone verify its existence? cagliost (talk) 13:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Cagliost, I accessed the article via the Gale One File News search accessible via the Wikipedia Library. I can't figure out how to directly link to the article. — LittleDwangs (talk) 15:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

This might work: http://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A772243609/GPS?u=wikipedia&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=508cedaf — LittleDwangs (talk) 15:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! cagliost (talk) 18:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)