Talk:Noctis Lucis Caelum/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Axem Titanium (talk · contribs) 03:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Reviewing. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   see below

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   File:Noctis'scrappedlookforDissdia NT.png has an incomplete FUR template. The two images are extremely similar and the top image is from A New Empire, which feels strange to me. On a two-image page, I would like to see one in-game render from the main game and one piece of concept art.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments:

General notes

• The possessive for Noctis is inconsistent. Both Noctis' and Noctis's are used. Pick one and stay consistent. Also be consistent with possessives for other proper nouns ending in S like Somnus and Lucis.
• "Noctis" appears over 100 times in this article. If there's a way to cut it down some or write around needing to say his name again, that would help with readability a lot. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but sometimes it's not. Use your pronouns judiciously.

Lead

• Nix the off-hand, out of context mention of Versus XIII. It's trivia that takes too long to explain in the lead.
• "playable character and main protagonist" - this is redundant, protag is more important imo
• "The crown prince and protector of Lucis, Noctis and his allies must..." - this is incorrect English. The clause "The crown prince and protector of Lucis" is a descriptor for Noctis, not his allies, so you can't put the clause there. You can rearrange to "Noctis, the crown prince and protector of Lucis, and his allies must". This is just a teaching moment.
• "Alongside" - not the right word choice
• "with later design revisions being handled by Yusuke Naora"
• "He also wanted his personality to be unique in the series, being unlike protagonists like Cloud Strife or Squall Leonhart, instead focusing more on realism" - meaning unclear, reads awkward, rewrite
• "Before his design was finalized, Noctis was given a story-inspired temporary outfit used in early trailers." - trivial for lead, nix this entirely
• "Since his original reveal"
• "Noctis has been positively received by journalists" -> "Noctis was well-received by critics" journalism =/= criticism
• "gathered multiple types of responses" - this is devoid of meaning. Be more specific or omit it.

Appearances

• First paragraph is full of passive voice: "is attacked", "is sent", "are forced", "is attacked" (again), "is to marry", "are to be married" etc. Please change to active voice as much as possible. I understand that Noctis is the focus of this article but he does not need to be the subject of every sentence.
• "He also gains the aid of the Astrals, [...] —he is in turn aided by Lunafreya" - aid appears twice in this sentence. It's also not clear why these two clauses are conjoined in one sentence instead of splitting it up into two.
• "Ardyn Lucis Caelum, the immortal older brother of Noctis's ancestor Somnus who swore revenge" - need a comma after Somnus, or else it implies that Somnus is the one who swore revenge
• "Arriving in Gralea to find its population turned into Daemons, Noctis finds" - find appears twice in quick succession
• "Noctis learns from the Astral Bahamut of Providence" - it sounds like "Astral Bahamut of Providence" is Bahamut's title. Try to reword to make clear that Providence is not part of Bahamut's name/title. The remaining clause is also pretty long and feels like a run-on sentence. Splitting into multiple sentences may help.
• "With the Ring of the Lucii Ardyn uses the ritual of Providence Noctis himself was to perform" - needs a comma after Lucii
• "A Play Arts Kai figurine of Kai has also been developed" - this is extremely abrupt and out of place. Find a better home for this. Figurines are not "media". Also it's a figure of Noctis, not "Kai"
• "Outside Final Fantasy, Noctis also appears"
• "between both Lars and Noctis"
• "as he was surprised by Final Fantasy XV as well as the coincidence that game from the franchise was released closely with Tekken 7" - massage this sentence so it flows better
• "wanted to surprise fans by including adding an RPG character by adding it to a fighting game" - also "surprise" appears twice in quick succession
• "resulted into their relationship"
• "he wears one hooded entirely created by the Namco staff" - one hooded what? You can also combine with the next sentence about SE's costumes using a semicolon
• Brave Exvius - italics

Character design

• "originally a spin-off titled Final Fantasy Versus XIII" - you can afford to explain the context here a little more
• "Though removed, Noctis' original design by Tetsuya Nomura presented in the Versus XIII trailers, has been used in Dissidia NT as an alternate skin." - extra comma after "trailers"; skin --> costume; "skin" is game jargon
• "Noctis's name was not going to be based on the sky or weather" - it says later in the paragraph that Caelum means sky. What's the deal here?
• "A major departure from Noctis' character in contrast to previous Japanese role-playing games' protagonists was his aging across Final Fantasy XV" - rearrange this sentence so the subject and verb are more clear.
• Hajime Tabata is introduced in paragraph 3 but he is mentioned earlier in paragraph 2. This will be addressed if you explain the Versus XIII > XV change earlier at the top of the section as I mentioned in an earlier note
• "exemplify and be representative" - this is redundant. Pick one.
• "His outfit was designed" - "his" is a dangling pronoun without a clear antecedent. Is it Takahara's outfit?

Attributes

• The first paragraph is the only section in the entire article where "Final Fantasy XV" is abbreviated as simply "XV". Stay consistent. Also make the abbreviation of Versus XIII consistent as well. Either always use the full title or always abbreviate it after the first mention.
• "conceptual trailer from the 2013 Electronic Entertainment Expo" - why is this important to mention? I think the entire clause should be removed
• was to have been" - awkward grammar, simplify
• "His words and actions stem" - stem appears twice in quick succession
• "Chase was told" appears twice in quick succession
• "would call either Chase or someone else the other actors in to re-record lines of dialogue" - implies that Chase was re-cast for pick-up recordings, which is not true
• "discontinued due to the need to roughly match the English dialogue to precisely match timing for the Japanese performances"
• What is Episode Duscae? It is mentioned without an introduction.

Reception

• "Video games publications have commented on Noctis' character" - this is too bland and vague. This topic sentence should be a summary/preview of the overall tone of the section.
• The first two paragraphs are a mish-mash of early reception and reception for Brotherhood. Sort this out into a more sensible order
• "Andrew Webster from The Verse" - The Verge
• "see how more do they develop" - grammar
• "Alexa Ray Corriae" - Corriea
• "A fragrance was created in the character's image" is out of place in the Reception section.
• "However, despite also agreeing with Bailey," - doesn't seem connected with the sentence that follows. The two clauses do not form a contrast, which is the use case for the word "despite"
• "Carter commented on the reason of how overpowered is Noctis which seemed "hokey"" - grammar
• Be careful when you say reviewers "agree" with each other. They do not literally agree with each other, as in a conversation, because the reviews are written separately. They can "echo" each other; they can raise similar points; but they cannot "agree" in a formal sense.
• "without spoiling too much to new gamers" - unnecessary
• "Noctis has been seen as a "apathethic" in the trailers before the game's release by Becky Cunningham from Cheat Code Central" - passive voice
• "another Square Enix's franchise" - no possessive
• "The Gamer listed Noctis as one of the most overpowered characters" - this is a trivial listicle, remove
• "earned multiple reactions" - also limp like the topic sentence of the section. Summarize!
• "Kotaku noted that the crowd of fans cheered for him" - crowd of fans where? Give context for why this crowd matters
• "Writer from Kotaku agreed" - who? Don't just call him Writer. Same with Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Engadget, PCGamer, etc. in this paragraph. Use names of writers like you did with the rest of the Reception section. Don't switch over the only using publication names halfway through.
• "curious about Noctis' fighting style in the game based on his fighting style" - redundant writing

Overall

In addition to my comments, I would give the entire article another copyediting pass. It needs some work on flow; it reads like a wiki article in the bad way, meaning that sections and factoids in the article feel like they were added piecemeal over time (which they probably were). An article in GA shape should feel like it was written by one person in a consistent style, which requires an editor to synthesize the cumulative work of many editors before them into a coherent whole. Judgesurreal777 Axem Titanium (talk) 03:24, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Great review, I’m going through it and will tackle it day by day. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:07, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

No problem, whenever you're ready. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:58, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

I greatly appreciate that. FYI, I think I can get to all these things on Saturday, my day off. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I appreciate your patience, but at the moment life events have consumed my schedule and I don’t want to leave you or the review hanging any longer. Let’s close this, perhaps we can address these issues at leisure and nominate again another day. @Axem Titanium: Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps drop a line at WT:SE? All the notes are there, they just need to be acted upon by a technician. I'm in no rush and happy to let someone else take over. :) Axem Titanium (talk) 22:49, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Axem Titanium: I've had a look through, and tried to do edits and corrections based on the above suggestions. It is rather a lot. I wasn't happy about the article being nominated in this state, but I'd grown to dislike the XV universe and had other things going on so I let it pass. But I've done a small rearrange, picked up some of the untidy sentences and grammar, and done a few rewrites and edits. As to the image, I put back the first trailer screenshot that was there originally, which can be reverted if that's not suitable. But at present, I've got two GANs, one review, and real life stuff, so it may be kinder to let this article go unless someone else has more time, or the article can undergo a more leisurely copyedit and then go for another GAN. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I’m sorry I nominated it, though I appreciate greatly the time Axem took to review it. I just have to focus on my new audio book recording job which I am launching, and i just don’t have any time to do even basic fixes let alone rewrites. At least now there is an outline for any who do have the time and will to make this a GA. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:26, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Axem Titanium, given the comments in this thread, it seems the best thing to do is to close the nomination as unsuccessful. Thanks for taking on the review. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, it's almost there but not quite. Anyone is welcome to take these comments and take it over the finish line for another GAN. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:34, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Axem Titanium, I just noticed that this still hasn't been closed after four more weeks. Can you please do the honors, since it's your review? If it's still open at the end of the month (or if you ask me to now), I'll close it. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Oh oops, I thought I did it. I'll close it now. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:33, 24 September 2020 (UTC)