Talk:Notts County F.C.

Male Only

"At the time of their formation, Notts County, like most important sports teams, were considered to be a male-only organisation. The name Notts County was most likely adopted to recognise this fact"

I'm curious how the name Notts County reflects a male-only outift? Bob Palin 04:26, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sounds odd to me too. I'd always assumed it was related to the geographic location of the club: the County of Nottinghamshire.
SimonMayer 23:32, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hello Bob.

I read this paticular piece of information in a book about Notts County which I own. It doesn't include the reason why it was choosen. I've tried to delve into this a bit without much success.

My theory is that the Victorians were very elitist, men of course were the most elite. Notts County might have been a very elite sounding name that could be used in Nottingham at the time which lead it to being chosen.

I'm both a Notts County supporter and female so I'm not sure what our founding fathers would think of me.

Regards, Kim

I've stared at the "male-only" line for several minutes, and it's still a non-sequitur. Consider it deleted. sjorford 20:50, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This is a piece on the history of Notts County's grounds which quotes something similar. It however does state that only 'County' was adopted to signify it's male only status while the source I used said it was the full name.

Still it is still rather an interesting question as to why it did signify what it did.

-- Aha, you are mis-understanding the meaning of genteel, it means refined, dignified etc, women can be genteel just as well as men. County implies genteel because a county is a formal division of land related to nobility. Bob Palin 23:40, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ahh thank you for putting me right there Bob. I'd assumed that as the source had stated that the club were initially gentleman's only that genteel was another term for gender.

Regards,Kim

Oldest Club

• In 1862 a group of Nottingham young men from a professional background (they worked in banks, law offices and the lace trade) began to meet on thursday afternoons to kick a ball around with great satifaction that they decided to form a club like the one formed in Sheffield in 1857. Palmiped 16:12, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Notts County aren't the oldest proffesional football team in the world. The Melbourne Football Club, formed in 1858, and the Geelong Football Club, formed 1859 or so, both predate Notts. They may play a different brand of football (Aussie rules), but nonetheless they are older.Trent.

Aussie revisionism at its best. Graham Cornes would be proud.

Sheffield FC are older than all of them so it means very little. The Dees and the Cats were not professional in 1858!!

Universally recognised as the Oldest Soccer League Club in the World. Notts County F.C. was formed in 1862 and was a founder member of the English Football (soccer) League in 1888.

Aussie Rules is more like rugby than football and is a totally different sport in its own right!Ofs0176 17:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

If you are talking about football especially an English team 37.60.107.34 (talk) 07:31, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Sheffield FC play in some lower-level competition, Melbourne and Geelong Football Clubs play at the highest level of professional football in Australia. It would be more accurate if the article described Notts as the oldest Association Football club in the world. Soccer does not own the name football.

A note on British English

British English should be used for articles on Britain related topics. Likewise, American English should be used on articles pertaining to American topics. For a clearer example, please visit this sub-section on the differences between their usage. However, is" works better than "are" with the term club as it is a singular and not a plural noun. (Compare with the word team which is a plural noun) --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 13:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Here in Britain a club is seen as the sum of its parts so is usually considered as plural. I'm not going to change it as I really don't spend more time arguing about it. If you want to change all the clubs to singular, I suspect you'll have a lot of edit wars with the British. Ram4eva 13:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you Ram4eva. Palmiped 17:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Palmiped. Taking an example from the BBC. [1]. This uses the club name as a plural. 'Derby have' and not 'Derby has'. I think the article is about the club rather than the team. Although often the line is blurred. Ram4eva 19:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your valuable feedback. However, I want you guys to read the following comments on this talk page. Moreover, please look into my talkpage as well with regards to this matter. Personally, I too feel that the usage of British grammar here lacks consistency. I feel we need the advise of an expert on the usage of the English language here. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 20:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The issue is that sometimes plural works and sometimes it doesn't - I put this down to what isn't being said in sentences "Derby have" is short for "Derby County Football Club" but equallly in another sentence could be Derby County Football club team members...." GraemeLeggett 09:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not aware of any formal authority on this point, but I believe that written English should, or at any rate can legitimately, be composed to reflect accepted norms of spoken English. In spoken ENglish it is clearly acceptable, and not regarded as ungrammatical, to say either "Notts County is" or "Notts County are". No further investigation is needed in my view; either is acceptable in vernacular spoken English and should be in writing, too. 11:43, 26 December 2006 User: MattW (UTC)

I feel you need to practise your English usage. "We need the advice of an expert" or "we need an expert to advise us". Arachrah (talk) 16:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Relegation/promotion in trivia

It says they've been promoted relegated more time than any other team with 14 and 15. I read somewhere Leicester had 22 of each. 82.163.157.251 13:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Leicester City have had a TOTAL of 22 Leicester City (Leicester Fosse) [22 moves] up: 11: 1908, 1925, 1937, 1954, 1957, 1971, 1980, 1983, 1994, 1996, 2003 down: 11: 1909, 1935, 1939, 1955, 1969, 1978, 1981, 1987, 1995, 2002, 2004 Palmiped 16:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

My mistake just checking. Just read it somewhere must have read it wrong. Jimmmmmmmmm 23:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I make it 12 promotions and 15 relegations (which makes sense, as they started in Div 1 and are now in what's effectively Div 4, so you'd expect there to have been 3 more relegations than promotions). It's still the record though. (Gimsby and Birmingham city are second on 25, though Brum have been promoted 13 times, which IS a record.Stevew2022 (talk) 01:22, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Notts County badge.jpg

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Notts for Nottinghamshire

While Notts is of course the abbreviation for Nottinghamshire, it strikes me as odd that the club is always Notts County and never Nottingham County or Nottinghamshire. The official site's history page implies it was originally "Nottingham Football Club": when did the abbreviated "Notts" form become official, as opposed to merely a common short form of "Nottingham" akin to "Man." for "Manchester" in "Man. United"? jnestorius^(talk) 22:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Not sure how much use this is but I grew up in Nottingham. Notts is generally interchangeable with Nottingham OR Nottinghamshire. It doesn't mean one or the other. If anything its more likely to refer to the City of Nottingham Borough (as in "I'm going clothes shopping in Notts"). Notts County are the only professional football team from Nottinghamshire within the borders of the City (Forest are over the River Trent in Rushcliffe Borough but are known as Nottingham Forest). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.189.157.74 (talk) 13:15, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Article self-contradiction

I thought I'd have a go at copyediting the article (consistent verb agreement as discussed above, punctuation/number formats per the Manual of Style, that sort of thing). I noticed that one sentence claims the club to be a founding member of the football league in 1885, but the next sentence claims it in 1888. I added the self-contradiction template, but I'm going to just stick to the copyediting and leave resolution of this to someone more familiar with the subject. Doonhamer (talk) 05:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• corrected founding member of the football league date including referance. Palmiped (talk) 13:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Cheers Palmiped. Doonhamer (talk) 15:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Check external links in main article

Check links--palmiped |  Talk  22:41, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Trivia

The main article was in August 2009 viewed 75,826 times compared to 7,645 times in August 2008. --palmiped |  Talk  00:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Oldest Professional (Football League Club) Club in the World?

I don't agree with this wording. It implies that Notts County were the first professional club, which theu weren't as Southern clubs became professional before Northern and Midlands teams which is why they weren't allowed in the Football League. It also implies they are the oldest football league club in the world, which they are, but are one of 11 (12 originally, Accrington no longer exist), so Everton, Aston Villa, Preston North End etc. could all make these claims. They started out as an amateur club, so this wording is misleading.

IMO, this should be the "oldest football team in the world who are currently professional" I know it's a bit wordy, but "currently" rather than "now" is a better term because Sheffield F.C. or Hallam F.C. could turn professional at any point if they wish. --MIR17 (talk) 17:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

• The five oldest football clubs in the world are: 1.Sheffield F.C. (1857), members of the Northern Premier League Division One South; 2. Hallam F.C. (1860) also a Sheffield football club, playing a division below the oldest club (Northern Counties East League Premier Division) =. Cray Wanderers F.C.(1860) 4. Worksop Town F.C. (1861); 5. Notts County(1862). But Notts are the are the oldest of all the clubs in the world that are now professional.--palmiped |  Talk  20:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

"Southern clubs became professional before Northern and Midlands teams which is why they weren't allowed in the Football League" - none of that is true..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Managerial Statistics

I've added a section for managerial statistics for previous manager - pretty important I think to club history.

Please add in more detail / previous managers if you have any info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.223.168 (talk) 11:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

• Here's some tenure details: http://www.thesackrace.com/teams/notts-county ʤɛfiːpiː (talk) 18:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

• • Thesackrace site is not correct especially the early years as team selection was by committee, see ref in article. --palmiped |  Talk  19:07, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Squad number

With 18 or so new players for the 2015/16 season here is official list of squad numbers at 6 August 2015.[2]

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Honours section

This is a total mess and the terminology incorrect. It needs revising to make clear what division the team was in – and when – and exactly what honours were achieved Billsmith60 (talk) 01:26, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Formation date

From edit by JST-TV on 4 May 2022

Exact founding date of the club. 25 November 1962. This is on basis of information of the club itself stating "The opening of the Nottingham Football Club commenced on Tuesday last at Cremorne Gardens. A aide was chosen by W. Arkwright and Chas. Deakin. A very spirited game resulted in the latter scoring two goals and two rouges against one and one.' - The Nottingham Guardian from 28 November 1862." Looked back to November 1862 and saw that the Tuesday that is spoken of is the 25th. palmiped^Talk 20:25, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Cremorne Gardens is/was in Sheffield. The report relates to Milton Football Club, which was the club established on 25th November 1862, not Notts County. A journalistic error at the time transposed Nottingham Football Club for Milton. This error has propagated almost unchecked for over 150 years. Notts County's founding date is 7th December 1864. Hammarbya (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

That is certainly the date that Notts were formally organised, and I agree that the specific date of November 1862 isn't correct, but there remains evidence that the origins of Notts lie before the meeting of 7 December 1864. I've incorporated the bits in the histories into the article (I'm in the process of fully overhauling it) but early members and early histories of football relate that the origins of Notts lie in football being practiced in The Park area of Nottingham before December 1864, and none of these accounts seem to trace back to the erroneous news article discussed above. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 12:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Notts first game was held at Cremorne Gardens, Nottingham, situated alongside the south end of Queens Walk, in the Meadows area. palmiped^Talk 14:43, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Darrin Foss's Notts County FC and the Birth of Modern Football (p.15) says this was mistaken reference to a Milton Football Club from the Sheffield area (as @Hammarbya says); Foss thinks the reference to a Nottingham Football Club was actually an error in an earlier edition of that day's Nottingham Guardian which was later corrected. He ultimately concludes that it isn't relevant to establishing Notts County's foundation date. Keith Warsop isn't convinced the report relates to Notts either (unfortunately, while http://www.archive.org is down, I can't give you an exact page).

I guess from an encyclopedic view, the information about the report should be included, but it should also be mentioned that this isn't universally accepted? Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 15:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)