Talk:Official languages of Puducherry

Status of French

(moved from User talk:Ugog Nizdast on 10:10, 15 June 2015 (UTC))

After the back and forth on it on various pagesfor a while, I found a good ref for it from the District courts of Pondicherry. It appears that it's not as simple as our article makes it out to be, so perhaps a clarification note is needed. The same note can be used across all the pages (I can think of at least four currently). —SpacemanSpiff 08:42, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Good find. I've got this ref too: [1] but it doesn't mention French...odd. Your ref mentions "its official status was preserved by the Treaty of Cession signed by the Indian Union and the French Republic on 28 May 1956." Let's dig in more. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:03, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I think the confusion on French is because of this. According to the Treaty of Cession, French will continue until replaced. This Act by Pondicherry legislature made Tamil etc official languages, but it appears to be silent on French. So I'm guessing that some people treat the silence as "replaced" some people treat it as "additional". I haven't been able to find anything else that is reasonable! However, I have seen new road signs etc in French during my last visit, so not sure what the deal is. —SpacemanSpiff 09:14, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

So further search simply shows that so some say, some don't mention it and no one explicitly denies it. TOI mentions a "four-language system" but I think they're referring to English. We're forced to just state that "per the Act of 1965 French is the official language until replaced" and then mention "Tamil, Telugu and Malayalam are the three...". I'll get to it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:24, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Hope that puts a stop to the constant back and forth edits. —SpacemanSpiff 09:35, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I think the change looks good. Once you think you're done, can you also add that text as a note within Puducherry, Languages with official status in India. As you are the author of the text if you add it I wouldn't have to worry about attribution syntax! cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 07:36, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

I did think of doing that but felt unsure given that we still aren't sure whether there are three or four languages, that would confuse even more readers. Not much we can do here though, I'll get to it. Good day. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 07:42, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Still there? I just began at Puducherry#Official languages of government and it blatantly proclaims that "Contrary to a still widespread belief, the French language has no official status" using this as a source. I did use translate on it and towards the end it does mention something about French, but I didn't find it explicitly implying it, maybe a case of OR. Could you take a look at it and assess its reliability? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 13:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

This ref seems reasonable, sort of what I had alluded to -- the Official Language Act being silent on French which leads some to think that it eliminated French while others say that it just doesn't address the status of French. The court website says one thing, the languages commission says another and so on. I'm going to ask @Abecedare: to chime in here as he makes good sense of language problems. —SpacemanSpiff 03:47, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Maybe busy on a weekend so no reply. I've read it again, it just questions the lack of any mention about French as you said, nowhere any explicit mention that it isn't. Thus, the "contrary to popular belief..." statement misrepresents the source to some extent. Then I'll remove that part and replace it with the new summary of it. ‑Ugog Nizdast (talk) 16:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

I saw a vacation notice put up for until the 25th and that he might not respond quick enough. We've had this piece of the 'pedia messed up for so long that I don't think the next dozen days ought to matter much. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 16:46, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Tamil "added" to French as an official language !!??

See also: fr:User talk:Bsskchaitanya § Statut du français dans le territoire de Pondichéry

The argument that French may somehow have survived as an official language is pathetic. Had it been so, the Act, which deals with official languages after all, would clearly have stated such a key element. It would have mentioned that Tamil is "also" an official language or that it is "added" to French. Everywhere, the wording of the Act clearly indicates that French is (rather unceremoniously) eliminated. Also note that Section 3 is titled Official language of the Union Territory (and not Official languages)--Lubiesque (talk) 12:53, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

The 1965 Act WAS DRAFTED IN ENGLISH ONLY by the Legislative Assembly of Pondicherry. Surely, had French been the official language, it would have been drafted in French, or at least have a French version.......--Lubiesque (talk) 12:59, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

On the official side, the French language has survived in the trilingual name of the Official gazette of the Union Territory, but that's quaint trivia. The gazette is in fact published exclusively in English http://gstcouncil.gov.in/sites/default/files/sgst-notification/PUD-(R)-21.pdf; http://clinicalestablishments.gov.in/WriteReadData/589.pdf--Lubiesque (talk) 14:47, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

When you start poking around, official Puducherry looks like this: -- English: a lot. Tamil: some. French: none--Lubiesque--Lubiesque (talk) 14:47, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

LubiesqueThank you so much for such a detailed understanding on the official status of French in Puducherry. Actually, this article was created by me many years ago. I am native of Yanam (part of Puducherry) and currently living in France. What was observed by me from official records maintained by Yanam Municipality and Yanam revenue department is that atleast until late 1970s and early 1980s, French was used in official documents (by the working staff who belonged to older generation). Until a decade ago, many official seals were still in French. Example, a marriage certificate of my father issued by Yanam municipality in 2001 had official seal mentioning Mairie, État de Pondichéry and Commune de Yanaon. French is still taught by government schools in Pondicherry and Karikal. At college and university level, French is offered as subject. My view is that since, French has not been officially replaced by 1965 Act, it still has official status. As validly pointed out, it all depends on the interpretation of 1965 act. The natives of Pondicherry are very francophile. So, as a token of respect, I prefer to keep mention of French as official language. I will try to gather information related to official status via filing an RTI at relevant department in Puducherry. Though it may take time. Take care.Bsskchaitanya (talk) 12:25, 7 June 2020 (UTC)