Talk:Oil exploration in Puntland

GA failed

This article has a long way to go to reach GA, unfortunately

• I'm afraid this article doesnt even have an opening sentence, let alone a lead
• The key players section needs to be expanded to a get a more historical perspective of oil politics in the region, rather than just a list of parties to the negotiations
• When was oil first discovered here
• Large sections are unsourced with no references
• The references need to be fully filled out with things like publisher date, author, see {{cite web}} among others
• The article should not be written in present tense like a live play-by-play sports commentary
• Why is a fiar use image being stored on commons and used in this article
• The prose needs to be tightened up substantially
• The date formats are inconsistent
• scare quotes:Dr. Abdirahman Farole, is "relieved" of his duty -> POV without a source
• Sources needed for content that implies invovlement of living people in suspicious deaths
• Why does it use "$...USD" -> "dollars US dollars"
• Why are people constantly referred to by their nicknames with quote marks around them

Best regards, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Oil has not been discovered in Puntland in commercial quantities. People here seem to forget that. TastyCakes (talk) 05:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Criticisms

The article is NOT expanding the greater context of the situation is Somali. The fact that Somalia does not have a fully functional government that can legally sign contracts with Oil companies should be stated. Also, it should be stated the prospect of OIL is prelonging the suffering of Somali people for warlords are fighting over these resources. This is a BLOOD OIL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abdicrm (talk • contribs) 17:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Well first there is no oil yet, bloody or otherwise. Second, Puntland does have a relatively stable government, and these deals were signed with the consent of the national governing bodies as well, ineffective as they are at present. Third, this is a desperately poor part of the world. Are you suggesting they should not be allowed to exploit their natural resources to try and improve their lot in life? Should they have to wait until the outside world deems them "stable" or "transparent" enough to "deserve" that? Because I think you'll find such thinking becomes something of a Catch 22. Further, I don't think it's clear that oil is what's causing the friction between these regions and clans, at lesat not all of it. 128.83.167.129 (talk) 18:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Puntland isn't a recogonised country. It's a piece of land taken over by a warlords that pretends to be democratic. Somaliland is more democratic. Puntland has no right to sign a deal. The only one who does is the TFG and half vast majority of the Somali people hate them with pure anger don't believe they are the right ones. Adding Oil to the mix is only going to fuel the tradegy of this nation. Oil in Africa has never been a good thing. In fact having Oil is one of the worsting that can happen to a non arab african nation. It will lead to corruption,instability and coups. Add that to Somali a country which barely exists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.77.223 (talk) 16:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

"you predict". Of course you have no way of actually "knowing". And again, the deals were signed with the TFG as well as Puntland's. 128.83.167.129 (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Well first of all. Puntland isn't stable. Their intelligence agents are being killed by people who they are meant to catch. The Islamic Courts Union are walking around there Puntland. Arms are entering the area and they can't even do anything at all. They are right next to the Pirates base yet in the there has only been four attempts to arrest them. Once by Puntland, once by the French and twice by the Islamic Courts. This state in a state is fracturing at this moment. The Islamic Courts have moved in right next to them and they haven't even been able to do anything about it. Somaliland has taken the opportunity to attack them and take some land they claim is there. They denied what happened and when it was revealed to the Somalis in the world who have access to the internet ( a surprisingly large amount for a country in Africa) they said they would take back their land in January. They've failed.

The ICU held sway in Puntland? That's news to me, and whoever wrote its article apparently... TastyCakes (talk) 19:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

The only reason why they have been "allowed" to go on with the deal is because the TFG is split. The President who used to rule the state wants them to go on with the deal while the Prime minster and the other MPs are against it since it undermines the Transitional government. To cap it all off. Puntland MPs have been stealing money meant to develop their state. They just had an emergency meeting to find out where the money went. Imagine what will happen if there is oil. They would have access to millions of dollars. Do you really think they would improve their record? The oil companies don't care about how money is spent has long has they can extract oil. Look at Nigeria. Furious Stormrage (talk) 01:38, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much. The fact that African Oil and Range have their own private army to protect their rig site just makes things even more bizarre. --Ingoman (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it's pretty pathetic that this is allowed to happen. If the international community made sure that their companies acted ethically and some of the money was at least spent on the country. They would save themselves billions in aid money. All though the biggest blame lies in my people ruining every chance they are given. Furious Stormrage (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I figure all I can do is document this whole sordid affair in it's entirety, for all to see. Knowledge is a weapon against tyranny and corruption. --Ingoman (talk) 23:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

This whole article is almost comically misinformed, exaggerated, one sided and poorly written. I am stunned that someone had the tenacity to nominate this for good article status. TastyCakes (talk) 04:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey thanks :)

In my defence, I seem to have been the only person on Wikipedia who bothered to write anything about it at all. --Ingoman (talk) 05:36, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I looked at the history, most of the stuff that really annoyed me (eg the NSUM stuff) was by some anonymous ip, likely in Africa. I think you've been doing your best to put in good information with what is a bunch of misinformation put out by so called news sources in Somalia and elsewhere. This is obvious a very murky region. But for the record, I think Garowe Online in particular is particularly untrustworthy. TastyCakes (talk) 05:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Garowe Online used to be really good, but it changed about a year ago. --Ingoman (talk) 17:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Prospecting for oil

Every mention of prospecting for oil brings protests that the companies are in it for their own profit. But that's the way of the world (even if it is a red-flag-waving National Oil Company in its own or an other country). Long before Buntilandi was invented oil companies (AGIP, CONOCO, Sinclair..) searched for oil in that part of the world, found nothing and left, millions of currency units out of pocket. In the 1950s geophysical prospecting for oil was the major industry in the Somalilands. Who wants Oil in zxzxzxland? The oil companies because that's their business* and whichever politicians can claim to be in charge and worth (though not worthy of) sacks of figurative sugar.

• he who sells only a goat is in business.--SilasW (talk) 17:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

As I understand it, Conoco left after declaring force majeur as the security situation deteriorated in the 90s, not because they didn't find any oil. I've heard their early indicators were actually quite good. TastyCakes (talk) 19:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

That (unless I'm confused) was their second bite at the Somali cherry stone.

But by then, I'd guess, there had been ten or a dozen unsuccessful concessions in Somalia. Didn't Sinclair, who stayed there the longest, present a minister with a bottle holding their total production from Afgoi #1?--SilasW (talk) 21:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Amsas edit

I think this is very interesting the edit made below, it isn't vandalism at all but a rather revealing little post.

We will give you a brief summary of the legal case that was lodged at the Puntland High Court (Dated 11th December 2007), that has attached copies to the TFG, the Council of Elders, The Puntland Parliament. The case is still in the courts and we would not like to deal much in the details (Please Download Full Document Lodged 2MB).

The case looks at the following main issues:

• 1. Contract and International Law and in particular "force Majeure" and "Nationalization" when can that be done?and who should own the concerned assets? and how do you get out of "force majeure"? and was that done legally by the Puntland Government or the TFG?
• 2. Who owns the rights to Land ownership and concessions for Natural Resources?
• 3. Competition and Monopolities Law - how transparent was the original contract that was given to Consort Pty Ltd when Dr.Ali Abdullahi showed interest in the Resources of Puntland even before Consort Pty.Ltd that farmed-in to Range Resources and then latter to CANMEX that has latter changed name to Africa Oil Ltd. The Chronology of events for Dr.Ali Abdullahi's Amsas Consulting goes back to 1996, while that of Consort,Range Resources and African Oil started only 2 years ago. African Oil Corporation that is a vehicle for the Lundins is also on the spot light for dishonesty and circumvention of contract.
• 4.Lastly, what have these companies done for the last 3 years? Amsas Consulting (an Australian company that is owned by me) did not go for any concessions in Puntland since it tried to respect the "force majeure" that was declared by original concession holders in late 1980's.Dr.Ali Abdullahi is advocating and petitioning the courts that for real ownership to be either with the Government or with an Indegenous company that is registered and owned by Somali (PUNTLANDERS).

Dr.Ali Abdullahi was one of the founding fathers of Puntland and the TFG before he fell out with both former Presidents Abdullahi Yusuf of the TFG and Adde Muse of Puntland.He was also a former Presidential candidate and an energy and Mining Management expert.

International companies can be invited latter when Somalia's Federal Government that has International recognition comes out of its political challenges by 2009, when we hope a constitution will be in place. The amounts involved in the case runs into the Billions of Dollars.

Interesting, yes, but appropriate? This is a guy that, from what I can see, is saying "this wasn't fair, I didn't look to buy a concession because these other companies declared Force Majeur in the 80s!", and he filed a law suit (years ago, to apparently no effect) trying to say what? That he deserves to be paid because an opportunity was denied to him? He then says something like "I deserve the concession because I'm Somalian and my "company" has existed since 1996!" The inescapable logic dulled perhaps only by the fact that he in all likelihood had no means to develop the concession at any time in its history, read: he had no money, expertise or appetite for the risk involved in the project. If there are legal questions to be answered regarding the awarding of the concession, it's with the companies that declared force majeur in the first place and gave up their own concessions, but since they aren't suing the pants off of Range and Africa Oil there presumably isn't a case there. This lawsuit appears to be totally bogus, and it seems this guy is plugging it into the article to try and bolster his claims. TastyCakes (talk) 16:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I was talking more about the fact that this touches upon the dispute between Puntland and the Transitional Government in 2007 over who exactly has the right to sell exploration rights. Lawsuits regarding legalities should probably be included in the article for a broader picture. Ingoman (talk) 19:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Except that both of those governments endorsed this PSA, so I'm not sure how this lawsuit demonstrates such a dispute. And I do not agree that a frivolous law suit (as this one appears to be) is a useful addition to the article. TastyCakes (talk) 20:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Clean Up

It's a horribly written article, I'll have to clean it up. 26oo (talk) 05:16, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Oil exploration in Puntland/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs cleanup and copyediting before achieving higher class ranking.Beagel (talk) 15:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 15:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 01:45, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Confusing first sentence

The lede says “in Somalia, an autonomous region in northeastern Somalia...” That doesn’t make sense. Trilotat (talk) 18:54, 3 January 2019 (UTC)