Talk:Order of St. George

St. George's Weapon (gold sabre)

I see in several articles mention of the gold sabre awarded for bravery (St. George's Weapon) but there being no mention that it is also considered to be an Order of St. George award. These recipients also need to be included, albeit under a separate section about the award.

For example, Apollon Galafeyev mentions "a gold sabre inscribed 'For Bravery'". It's more than just a gold sabre. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 18:42, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

The reason is simple, this article deals solely with the modern, current Order of the Russian Federation. I've had a look at the Russian Wikipedia article on the imperial award (where the sabre/sword of honour is mentioned), it's quite extensive and really deserves translation and inclusion into English Wikipedia. Give me a few weeks and I'll do it. It will however be a stand alone article dealing only with the imperial Order. Cheers! Fdutil (talk) 01:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I have tracked down and obtained a quite excellent English language reference. I'll take a look at the RU WP article for cues for organizing Russian Empire versus later Russian Federation. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 19:37, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

(Having seen RU WP has two articles...) in view of this being an English language encyclopedia, I think it would be confusing to have separate articles on the historical imperial and current federation awards as its fundamental purpose has not changed and its current instantiation is an updated reinstatement of the imperial award. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 19:41, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Link to RU.WIKI

I changed the link to the Russian article, it now goes to the current modern award, it used to go to the imperial award. Fdutil (talk) 04:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. For this article, I think a combination would be best, as I've noted. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 19:47, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 13 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved (as to each). This is a single close of multiple related contemporaneous moves requests by one nominator – in no particular order, of:

• Talk:Cross of St. George#Requested move 13 December 2015;
• Talk:Order of St. Gregory the Great#Requested move 13 December 2015;
• Talk:St Joseph's Day#Requested move 12 December 2015;
• Talk:St Mark's Eve#Requested move 12 December 2015;
• Talk:St. Martin's Day#Requested move 12 December 2015;
• Talk:St. Andrew's Day#Requested move 12 December 2015;
• Talk:Order of St. George#Requested move 13 December 2015; and
• Talk:Fort St. Angelo#Requested move 12 December 2015.

The nomination text is near identical as to each ("To recover/relief/remove from/the abbrevation") and opaque to the extent that we can only infer that abbreviations in article titles are considered poor or improper for unspecified reasons and without a policy- or guideline-based rationale. Each has been opposed on the basis that there is no overarching prohibition or preference in our naming conventions against the use of abbreviations and that the common names policy does not support the move—that the use of St/St. as to each title is more common in a preponderance of reliable English language sources, than is Saint spelled out. Since that was only supported by assertion and by reference to a web search (as opposed to a search that tends to concentrate reliable sources, such as of books), I have done a spot check and it is borne out by quite a significant margin, e.g., this versus this. The chief ground for supports was to avoid contests/edit wars over whether or not to affix a period to the abbreviation, i.e, St versus St. We generally do not choose titles based on the possibility of edit wars but rather based on what title is proper, on the merits, under our naming conventions. If any user wishes to take on a requested move on that issue, that can be done separately – though they should probably read all subsections of Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English first. Finally, I note that though one contributor was found to be a sockpuppet and his or her !vote was struck where it appeared, the sockpuppet charge as to the nominator was returned unsubstantiated, and does not figure in this close.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:24, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

---

Order of St. George → Order of Saint George – To relief the abbrevation. Chicbyaccident (talk) 09:20, 13 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose on grounds offered. There is no rule against abbreviations. WP:COMMONNAME is all that matters, so please provide sources showing that "Saint" is spelled out. A quick check of Refs/Links shows most of them in Cyrillic, but the one that's in English uses "St. George" exclusively. SnowFire (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
• Support fully the replacement of abbreviations by clear informative full names. Peco Wikau (talk) 22:02, 17 December 2015 (UTC). BLOCKED SOCKPUPPET ACCOUNT.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The result of this discussion may be impacted by the sockpuppet investigation of the proposer, and should await its outcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose PER WP:COMMONNAME. Google says 351k vs 126k. Alsee (talk) 17:31, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Grand Cordon of the Order of St. George?

In researching the awards given to Swedish King, and former Napoleonic Marshal, Carl XIV Johan, I came across a couple sources that say he was awarded the Grand Cordon of the Order by Alexander I for Bernadotte's victory over Ney at the Battle of Dennewitz.

The information cited here states that only four grades exist, though I assume, like all Chivalric Orders of this nature, that a grand collar or cordon exists for the monarch and for distribution to other heads of state.

Can anyone confirm this so that I might update Carl Johan's entry on the page?

SJCreecy (talk) 12:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

• @SJCreecy:, I checked Russian sources and there's no trace of anything except 1st class. Perhaps, foreign sources merely used Grand Cordon in place of 1st Class, or there actually was a one-of-a-kind physical piece - the answer lies in Swedish royal treasury. "exists ... for distribution to other heads of state" - I doubt that this was ever planned before Bernadotte, the order being strictly a combat award. Retired electrician (talk) 18:47, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

List of awards - grossly incorrect

The list mixes up awards of the Order of St George (for officers) and the Cross of St George (for enlisted men). Of the Recipients of the Order first class only two actually were, others were awarded the enlisted men's cross. Lists of 1st, 2nd and 3rd degrees are well researched, cf. ru:Кавалеры ордена Святого Георгия I класса, ru:Кавалеры ордена Святого Георгия II класса (complete lists). Perhaps, if it's impossible to maintain correct lists here, they'd better be deleted? Retired electrician (talk) 18:34, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Recipients list missing recipients

There are two more recipients

Field marshal prince Alexander ivanovich Baryatinsky who was awarded the order of st George 2nd class in 1859

And Field marshal prince Alexander chernyshov who earned it 4th class

This can even be easily double checked by visiting their Wikipedia pages or even through famous portraits of theirs 2A02:1388:209D:CAB9:819A:A20:D202:A816 (talk) 08:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)