Talk:Papal mediation in the Beagle conflict

pope "own initiative"

I saw once on a TV doc that at the imminence of the invasion was actually venezuelan president (carlos andres perez) who called us president (carter) in order to mediate and in turn carter phoned the pope. --Jor70 (talk) 13:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

30 Anniversary

Having read the discussion here, I don't see any consensus to remove that image. It seems germane to the article and the text whilst not perfect for English grammar is relevant. I see no reason to remove it, particularly when the justiification is labelling it "propaganda". Justin talk 17:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Justin,

nice to meet you here. I hope you stay by a long time and help to improve the article, like now.

It is true what you say. It seems germane to the article. The foto is about the 30. Aniversary of the treaty but not of the Mediation. The Mediation- the treaty - the celebtation. It is not the same.

In Commons we can find fotos of Pope JP II, Pinochet, Videla, Galtieri, and Alfonsin. This persons are directly involved in the Mediation and the treaty. Every one of them has influenced the course of the mediation and/or the text of the treaty.

Ms. Bachelet, Ms. Fernandez and Mr. Ratzinger weren't involved in the mediation and neither influenced the text of the treaty. That is not a value judgement. They were simply not there. (Exception of Ms Fernandez, she refused to accept the treaty during the Argentine Plesbicite 1984 as you read in Talk:Treaty 1984) and Images must be relevant to the article that they appear in and be significantly related to the article's topic. Take a look to the photos I put in the article before, the pope, members of the delegation, members of the mediation staff. No more. There should/could be also Pinochet and Alfonsin, but too many photos overloaded the article and distract the reader.

I think you will accept the fact that they weren't involved in the mediation. It is a fact.

Why should we put a foto of them in the WP-article?

• because they celebrete the treaty? But the presidents Alwyn, Frei, Lagos, Alfonsin, Menem, De la Rua, and a lot of people also celebrated the treaty!. e.g. Pope JP II! He, JP II, took the incalculable risk of the mediation with Argentina, a not easy negotiating party as the Beagle channel history demostrated.
• because we have a pretty foto of them? No problem, I can prepare a cool collage of all the mentioned persons!
• because Ms. Fernandez needs a little bit help in order to do fix her international relations? A good idea but not in WP!

So, I dont see any good reason to put a foto of Mr. Ratzinger and delete the foto of JPII. That same for Ms Fernandez and Ms.Bachelet. It is only propaganda.

Please, tell me what was the contribution of B+R+F to the Mediation or to the treaty? What is the difference between Alfonsin, Menem, De la Rua, Frei, Alwyn and Lagos to Fernandez and Bachelet?

You see no reason to delete the foto of M+R+F. I see it. If we want to put fotos of all the people that celebrate the treaty, ..., I would say WP is not a family photo album. --Keysanger 14:24, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

No it isn't a photo album, nor is it censored because you happen to dislike the Kirschners. Personally I despise her and her government, that doesn't mean I'll accept censorship of her image though. The celebration of the 30th Anniversary is relevant and no matter what you think of her, she is the president of Argentina and so relevancy is established. Now if you wish to add an image of the signing of the treaty by all means do so, that is of itself a separate issue and not germane to your repeated removal of relevant material. Justin talk 14:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Justin,

Please, don't accept censorship from any one, not even of me. But in this case, censorship isn't the issue. It regards importance and ,at all, the relation with the issue of the article. You accepted (do you?) that none of the three persons of the photo influenced the negotiations or the text of the treaty. But unfortunately you didn't answer my questions: The 30th anniversary is relevant, but what about the 29th, and the 28th and so on?. She is the president of Argentina, but what about Menem, Alfonsin and De la Rua? And Alwyn, Frei, Lagos? Why should we show her and not the others? . So, you attack me if you wish to add an image of the signing of the treaty by all means do so, but what about yourself? I put images that have to do with the content of the article. The image you put, have nothing to do with the negotiation and the treaty. I please you to respond about the relevance of your photo regarding other anniversaries, presidents and, mainly, with the content of Papal mediation in the Beagle conflict. --Keysanger 17:37, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Because a 30th Anniversary is significant, whereas a 29th isn't; illogical but true. I happen to think the way you dealt with the issue surrounding her previous denunciation of the treaty is the way to deal with it. Provide the reader with the information and let them make up their minds. IMHO letting the reader decide she is an opportunistic hypocrite, is better than forming that opinion ourselves and removing relevant information as propaganda. yes/no? Justin talk 20:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)