Talk:Pavel Durov

Opening sentence

@ASpacemanFalls: I saw your edit summary where you said that he is notable for Telegram, but he became notable in the first place because of VK, where he was often called "Mark Zuckerberg of Russia". So I do not think "Russian" can be removed here as a result. Of course Telegram came after exile so perhaps something else can be added here, like UAE if it is relevant. Mellk (talk) 23:36, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

It's been 8 years since he left VK though and, even looking at the page, it's a smaller paragraph, with the dismissal itself taking up more space. I think most people globally know him only thanks to Telegram, though I admit it might be my bias as I never really heard of VK before starting to use Telegram. Plus, there are multiple references to him being Russian, in his infobox in particular. But the current and, thus, most relevant status, is of a UAE citizen and resident. VK itself ran for 8 years, so at this point he's been out of it longer than he was "in" it. Does my logic make sense? ASpacemanFalls (talk) 09:47, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

I understand where you are getting at, however there is MOS:CONTEXTBIO, and VK is what made him notable and it is relevant to his notability, examples [1][2][3][4]. He is still a Russian national, and I would imagine "Russian-born" would still be included if this was disregarded. Mellk (talk) 14:08, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

All but one of those are quite old and the new one talks specifically about Telegram and its importance, which to me just gives more credence to the argument that Telegram is the main reason this guy is relevant at the moment. Ten years ago it was a different story, sure, but time has passed. MOS:CONTEXTBIO clearly states to list current residency and citizenship, which would be UAE in this case. Considering he has now ran to (similarly?) popular social network-type things, I think it's reasonable to focus on the one that he still runs, thus landing on a UAE-in-lead decision on my part. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 23:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Where in the MOS does it say that we should only focus on current activities? It does say: The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. And as mentioned, he is still a Russian national. The Guardian article still refers to him being called as the "Russian Mark Zuckerberg" and mentions his founding of VK. Even if you still disagree and that we should only think about Telegram, it does say previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability. In this case, even if he was no longer a Russian national, it would still be relevant. Now, I would not oppose mentioning current permanent residency alongside this. Mellk (talk) 05:16, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

It also says In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident. Durov is not a resident of Russia any longer, even if he still holds the citizenship. For the UAE, he's both a resident and a citizen and it's where his current project gained notoriety. VK is no longer his claim to fame. If I ask a passerby on the street, they won't know what VK is, though I understand it's a different matter from someone from Russia and that general region. There are similarly articles about Telegram that make no mention of VK, even when mentioning Durov: [5], [6], [7]. Mentioning that he was born in Russia is okay, certainly, but the lead spotlighting VK and Russia when these are more related to his past is a bit of a misrepresentation, in my opinion, of course. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 09:12, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I am OK with adding onto "Russian" or "Russian-born", but it is tricky because he only became an Emirati citizen in 2021, according to this article. And it also states that he obtained Saint Kitts and Nevis citizenship after he left Russia, however Telegram was launched in 2013 while he was still in Russia (of course it was years later that it became very popular). Mellk (talk) 14:14, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

He, and the app that he's famous for, were based in Dubai for nearly a decade now, overtaking his tenure at VK. Besides, VK is now a completely different entity and owned by different company (state-owned?), meaning that it's barely relevant to his page at this point. It's like calling Elon Musk a South African entrepreneur - more of a technicality than a representative picture of him. Seeing as Telegram is regularly in the top 10 most downloaded apps, it's pretty clear that it's surpassed any level of notoriety that VK, a rather local thing, had, leading me to conclude that Telegram's the main claim to fame for this guy. The lead isn't meant to be a historical record, it's a summary of what makes someone notable (see MOS:FIRSTBIO), and in this case it's the UAE-based app that comes attached with a UAE residency and citizenship.

I've edited the lead to include "Russian-born" and Emirati, which I believe addresses your argument too. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 15:55, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I disagree with that comparison because Musk became notable long after he left South Africa. Durov became notable when he was in Russia. Notice how in the MOS (as you linked MOS:FIRSTBIO) for context it refers to activities that made the person notable, it is not only about current activities. VK made him notable, otherwise there would not have been lots of Western media coverage on him before Telegram became a thing. As notability is based on RS, if you personally were unaware of Durov before Telegram, I'm sorry but it is not relevant here. Mellk (talk) 16:59, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

VK made him notable in Russia but not worldwide. I understand your desire, as a Russian, to claim him for Russia, but Telegram is the more popular of the two projects and has garnered that popularity not based on prior work but based on its own merits. His tenure at VK was mostly reported on in terms of money made and his stake being sold. Telegram is getting nearly daily coverage for a variety of reasons, both good and bad. I don't see how an honest comparison can be drawn between the two. Either way, the edit's been made and I believe the discussion (at least one that pertains to it) has run its course. ASpacemanFalls (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

VK made him notable in Russia but not worldwide. Does WP:N work this way? Also, this is not about my personal opinions, this is about policies. Regards. Mellk (talk) 11:35, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Добрый день ,вопрос наверное не по теме , ну просто не знаю куда написать .Подскажите пожалуйста как я могу восстановить свой удвоенный аккаунт , мне именно он нужен . Почему нет информации о восстановлении , но это же не возможно чтобы ничего нельзя восстановить ? 85.26.232.7 (talk) 11:46, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Has he renounced Russian and Kittitian citizenship?

These are mentioned in the infobox, has he renounced them, no source is being referred.

• Russian (1991–2015)
• Kittitian (2015–2021)

192.89.123.43 (talk) 11:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

It's very unlikely that an individual would renounce these two citizenships, especially within its circumstances. Although it's very likely that Pavel Durov it's only using the French and Emirati Passport right now FaDarW (talk) 18:30, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Scammer in telegram

I was robbed by scammers in telegram 2409:40D5:100D:2529:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 06:22, 5 November 2024 (UTC)