Talk:Personal computer/Archive 1

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Moved here

(Formerly, "Personal Computers" was redirected to "Home Computers", which discusses early machines like Apple ][s only. We ought to have a more comprehensuve article here linked to "Home Computers" for early history.)

Isn't the term personal computer formalized only after IBM's introduction of the PC? Before then, only home computer was the common name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aldie (talk • contribs) 04:12, 6 August 2002

Nope. That's what the IBM PC was: the IBM Personal computer, as opposed to all the other personal computers that were already on the market. THere were lots. Tannin 22:05 20 May 2003 (UTC)

Bottom half of article

The bottom half of this article is absolutely bad. What's with all the "of"s? Someone needs to fix it. - RadRafe 22:43, 20 May 2003 (UTC)

Quite so. Also, it's not about personal computers in any casse, it seems to be some rough notes about the development of mini computers - which are an entirely different thing. Tannin Text follows:

History

The first computers that can be called 'personal' were the first non-mainframe computers, the LINC and the PDP-8. By today's standards they were big (about the size of a refrigerator), expensive (around $50,000 US), and had small magnetic core memories (about 4096 12-bit words for the LINC). However, they were small enough and cheap enough for individual laboratories and research projects to use, freeing them from the batch processing and bureaucracy of the typical industrial or university computing center. In addition, they were moderately interactive and soon had their own operating systems. Eventually, this category became known as the mini-computer, usually with time-sharing and program development facilities. Eventually, the mini-computer grew up to encompass the VAX and larger mini-computers from Data General, Prime, and others. Deployment of mini-computer systems was a model for how personal computers would be used, but few of the mini-computer makers managed to profit from it. Personal computer - computer (computer) for the personal use.Before the appearance of the first personal computers, the existing computers were very expensive in the price and in the operation, which excluded the possibility of the acquisition of such machines by individual people.Computers could be found in the large corporations, in the universities, in the centers of studies and in the state establishments.Personal computers became possible in the Seventies, when amateurs began to construct their personal computers only in order in principle of having the capability to brag by this uncommon object/subject.Raniye personal computers did not have practical application, and they were extended very slowly. On 23 December, 1947, three scientific in the laboratories companies Bell, William Shokley, Walter Brateyn and John Bardeen invented the point transistor amplifier (transistor), which allowed decreases in the sizes/dimensions of the computers, which to this moment/torque used electron tubes. During September 1958, the jack frame Of kilbi from the company Texas by Instruments built the first electronic microcircuit, where five components were integrated on one pay of Germany, with size/dimension in one-and-a-half centimeter into dlinnu and 1-2 millimeters into the thickness. In 1959, Robert Noys from Fairchyuild Of semichonduchtor, it built the integrated electronic microcircuit where of the component they were soyedeneny with each other alyuminivymi lines on the oxidized surface of silicon (silichon-okhide). In 1960 the company Of digital Of etsuipment presented the first minicomputer Of pdp-y (PDP - program, date, processor), which was sold for 120000 American dollars.this was the first commercial computer equipped with keyboard and monitor. In 1963, Douglas engelbart invented computer mouse - the input equipment into the computer by the method of "tyka ':) In 1964, John Kemeny and Thomas Kyurtts in the college To dartmoutyu, they developed the language of programming BASICH.BASICH this reduction, which is read as Beginners of All -purpose Symbolich Of instruchtion To chode, or the multipurpose language of the symbolic codes of instructions for the novices (MYASKIN? In 1964 the American association of standards assumes/takes new seven-bit standard for exchanging the information ASCHII (Americhan of Standard To chode of the odds Of information To interchyuange.) In 1965 Gordon Moore, chief for research and developments for Fairchyuild Of semichonduchtor of company formulates the collection of different observations about the rate of the development of technology for decreasing the transistor in the microcircuits.Popular opinion in the fact that Moore establishes law (Moore's law) who it says that transistor density in the integrated microcircuits it will be doubled every 12 months in the course of the following ten years. During May 1966, Stephen Grey bases the society of computer amateurs (Amateur Of chomputer Of sochiyety) or ACHS, and he begins to publish the news of cloud/club.(there is an opinion that this it served as the generation of personal computers.) On 4 June, 1966, American ofis of patents issues doctor Robert Dennard from the company OF IBM, patent 3387286 for single-transistor storage cell (DRAMAS Of dynamich By random Of achchess Of memory or dynamic access to the random memory) and to the base idea of three-transistor storage cell.This type of memory is used for the short term retention of information in the computer. In 1966, Robert Noys and Gordon Moore base corporation Intel.this company is begun from the creation of the micros-chip of memory, but gradually it is converted into the company for the production of microprocessors. In 1966, Douglas engelbart from the research institute of Stanford, presents system consisting of the literal keyboard, the tsifernoy keyboard, the mouse and the program of the supporting output information to screen in the different ' windows '.At the demonstration is shown text editor, the system that solving to construct references to the information and program for the collective work. In 1969, the company Of yuoneyshell lets out Yuey' "kitchen computer", first domestic computer for 10600 American dollars.

Images

The image in this page contains a message advocating the bombing of motor vehicals. I don't think that is encyclopaedia-appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crusadeonilliteracy (talk • contribs) 15:44, 9 August 2003

The picture is so dark you can hardly see the computer so it isn't very good anyway. Rmhermen 15:21, Aug 9, 2003 (UTC)

More criticising of the photos

Both pictures actually lack showing the main case of the PC! *All* the other components are in fact non-unique to PCs. A decent picture of a full PC system would be helpful. :-) (most components might be part of a Net Computer, or Dumb Terminal system.)

As for the picture with the TV, modern graphics cards contain TV in and out (again, in case you're old enough to remember ), and I have seen tvs connected up to part of a PC system.

Also note that people in "Real Life" keep using very old PCs indeed, without replacing them at all, and people often personalize their personal machines, though I'm not sure how to best illustrate this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kim Bruning (talk • contribs) 20:54, 2 January 2004

I hope the pic of my tower (Evesham, 3 GHz) answers your comments on the pic of my general set-up. Obviously a view inside the tower would be good as well, but I'm not willing to open up (I'm chicken!).

For your interest, the TV is not in any way relevant to my computer, I don't want to miss Coronation Street or Eastenders while I do Wiki work (I live in England)!

Adrian Pingstone 21:03, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Okay well, I don't mind opening up one of my PCs. I've made some pictures and added them to my photo dir. Are any of those useful? There's a 2nd computer in the background, but that shouldn't be a big deal. Pictures include: tower, tower interior, tower rear, shots of the desktop. (In varying quality and lighting). The machine itself is a white label Pentium 4, using an nvidia geforce 2 graphics card, drives in the drive bays (from top to bottom) are CD-writer, DVD-RW, 20 Gb hard disk (cheap one, thrown in with the deal), hard disk 160 Gb. I haven't owned it long enough to really hack around with it, so I guess the hardware is still fairly typical. :-) (Click on the required resolution, then click on the relevant thumbnail to obtain the actual image) Kim Bruning 16:34, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think this one is good but it's overexposed. Could someone with photo shop fix it up? [1] BrokenSegue 16:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I work at a IT department, and right now I have lots of Dell's (GX260-280, SX260-280, GX620), Compaq DeskproEN's, HP d530's and others, both SFF and regular form factory. Anyone interested in photos? -- Pål Grønås Drange 15:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Components

Also, is there no article on wikipedia about the components of a computer, Expansion slots (PCI, AGP, ISA) hard drive, video, RAM etc? BrokenSegue 16:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

More history

We need more about the history of personal computers (the lack of a reference to the Xerox Alto is a major oversight), and in fact there's so much one could say (see the material above) that it could probably be a separate article, with a brief overwiew, and link, from here. Noel (talk) 00:32, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

the data on the history of computers is not enough we need extra knowledge about the comper history-- Saptesh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.246.138.22 (talk • contribs) 07:32, 8 August 2006

After reviewing some timelines and the OldComputerMuseum's pages I see several machines that should be mentioned and aren't. Like Intel's Intellec Intellec-8 circa 1973 and IBM's IBM 5100 circa 1975. Both important contributions from major players which are obviously hardware precursors of personal computers when viewed but fail to be called personal computers cause of the $2300 in 1974 dollars for the Intellec or the $9500 in 1975 dollars for the IBM 5100. Alatari 18:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Image choice

It's great to see a system pictured, but I'd like to see a better system layout than that one, with no TV and the system case clearly shown. Anybody have a camera, and everthing in one clear layout, without extra details? Radagast 01:43, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

Definition

The article gives a definition of Personal Computer as

A personal computer is an inexpensive microcomputer, originally designed to be used by only one person at a time, and which is IBM PC compatible - (though in common usage it may sometimes refer to non-compatible machines).

I would say that only the initials "PC" are ever taken to indicate an IBM/Intel/Windows-standard personal computer. (ex. usage "Do you own a Mac or a PC?" but never "Do you own a Mac or a Personal Computer?") and the rest of the article text would seem to corroborate this, with discussion of many pre-IBM-PC microcomputers. Exia 05:08, 7 January 2005 (UTC)

History moved

I think we need to tell people about the Elder Days. So, I've moved the great stuff about LINC and PDP 8 back into the article. The "generations" of personal computers seems to be something specific to this article, I don't think I've seen that cateogorization elsewhere. There's so much overlap between, for example, the Commodore 64 style "home" computer and the cheap IBM compatible that I'm sure many households had both at the same time, thoough I imagine the use of a C64 in an office would have been very rare. --Wtshymanski 05:05, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Currently, this content is divided among the microcomputer, home computer, and personal computer wikis. The division appears to coincide (roughly) with the changes in marketing nomenclature over the years. However, to date, none of the articles offer a pictorial history that tells the story of the micro (or PC, or whatever you want to call it).

As for the personal computer article in particular, I feel that the gallery of photos lacks a certain historical objectivity. While I believe that photos illustrating PCs with character (i.e., examples illustrating real-life contexts, and not just machines as they would appear on a box cover or in a clean room) have their place in the article, the examples fail to illustrate the evolution of PC industrial design and technological innovation; endless submissions of contemporary, x86-compatible home computers do not serve to edify. Is there an article on computer customization or "hot-rodding"? — Ringbang 21:57, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

{By the late 1980s, "home computers" were slowly being replaced by "personal computers" because the graphics and sound capacities of "home" systems were matched by those intended for "business" purposes. This, combined with a general decrease in costs of personal computers, caused the two market segments to fuse. These computers were pre-assembled, often pre-configured with bundled software, and required little technical knowledge to operate.} REmoved this for confusing the definitions of personal and home computers and having the date's inaccurate.

{A cynic once said: "Apple never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Ironically, in 1997, a leading computer magazine declared that Apple's new iMac computer was the best-selling personal computer on the market, with nearly 10% market share. The magazine printed a list of computers by several different manufacturers, in order of sales volume: they were not separated by operating system, despite the fact that in that year very few retailers displayed IBM PC's and Macintosh computers side by side.} The cynic needs to be named as does the computer magazine. It certainly isn't clear that iMac outsold Dell's most popular modules those years so again citations/verifications must back these statements up. Alatari 10:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Press mention

Forbes has an article claiming an innaccuracy in this article [2] concerning the first mention of the term "personal computer". The author found a reference in a New York Times article from 1962 (the author does not claim that this is the first mention) whereas the Wikipedia entry cited a New Scientist article in 1964. Can someone with access to the New York Times archive please check this out, and have a quick look for any previous mentions of the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.102.254 (talk • contribs) 01:56, 29 July 2005

Review this interesting piece: http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml They were not called 'personal computers' but they fit the definition. And this research piece found the first device which 'personal computer' was used to describe it: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.12/mustread.html?pg=11 Alatari 15:23, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

There's one they forgot...

They forgot Simon.

http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml

Scroll to the very bottom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.33.129.100 (talk • contribs) 03:02, 2 December 2005

Agreed can anyone confirm that the article is accurate (i.e. Simon can be considered the first Personal computer). If it is then the info in it should be included in the history section or at least a link to the article. Qazzian 09:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

The confusion here is that the Simon was never called a 'personal computer' during it's time period. That term didn't come into being until 1962 (earlier references I can not find although they may exist). Do we want to define 'personal computer' and then go back and reevaluate every machine in history by that definition or do we stick to the actual usage of what machines were called 'personla computers' from their inception? Alatari 23:16, 30 July 2007 (UTC)