Talk:Peter Gabriel/Archive 1

Archive 1

Vatche Housepian

I removed this section because it is off-topic and nearly unparsable. In nearly any album there are quibbles over credts. Why is this notable? If there is some notable dispute the reason it's meaningful needs to be clear, and I'd suggest it needs to go in the album article rather than here anyway. Jgm 15:47, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sub-headings

This article needs more sub-headings; but may require restructuring in order for them to be meaningful. Andy Mabbett 4 July 2005 20:54 (UTC)

The birthday is definitely Feb.

I'm new so I don't want to go trying to edit stuff on the main article but it was the Holmes Brothers and not the Blind Boys Of Alabama who sang on "Burn You Up, Burn You Down."

Links

Sorry, I don't know where to put this. But, on his page, the links on the left side are messed up. Specifically the "Main Page" link looks different.

Does this piece need the five external links? And if it does, how about some text explaining what they are? It seems a bit silly - and typical of music entries in here - that people just add links but there's no indication of their content or value. --138.37.188.109 11:17, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I fail to see how Gsl link to Peter Gabriel lyrics is classified as spam. Steven 07:10, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

(I think you want 195.50.201.11, not me. Geoff/Gsl 06:03, 2 October 2005 (UTC))

Name That Tune

A couple of years ago, I saw a video on VH1 for a song featuring Peter Gabriel's vocals on a track by some techno/eletronic group whose name I can't place. Anyway, the video is basically a guy falling out of the sky, hitting the earth, burrowing deep through the earth, coming out the other side, entering the earth's atmosphere, then (you guessed it,) falling back down to earth again and repeatin the process ad infinitum. Does anyone know the name of the track or the group he did this song with?

Radical AdZ

Afro Celt Sound System, "When You're Falling", IIRC --Calair 22:53, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Freeman of London

Peters father is a Freeman of London. This gives the holder and the inheritor via old London corporation law certain rights. The title is usually passed down the male line.

Discography link

Hey all, while adding "see also" links on the Genesis discography page, I wanted to include links to both Phil Collins' and Gabriel's discographies. However, I was surprised to see there wasn't a separate page for Gabriel's. I've decided to be bold and create a separate article for Gabriel's discography, copying much of the information already on this page for the discography as it's primarily a list at this time making the article look unprofessional. I think just including the albums and perhaps a few most popular singles for this page would be most appropriate. Let me know what you think. Thanks! --Ataricodfish 02:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Fan Site Links

Is there a need for all the fan site links? And if so, perhaps we should make it clearer which link is which? --DisneyFreak96 06:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

German songs?

How does Peter Gabriel speak German? Where has he learn it? Dr.Poison 12:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

With an atrocious English accent. He think he learned it at school, like me, but unlike me he kept up on it. --Fantailfan 12:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you (I am an Italian and I learned German and English at school). I always hated German because I thought it was too difficult, but after hearing Gabriel singing in German I started to appreciate it... I think that the sound of his music and the sound of his personal way of pronouncing German words are very well coupled...--Condor33 08:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I see in Secret World Live he is speaking Italian at the start of "Steam." I know (from somewhere else, I don't know) that his French is excellent. Fantailfan 13:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Musical Criticism

Just wondering if this could be a forum for musical criticism. The essay is great as far as it goes, and scholarly discussions of some of Gabriel's more enigmatic works would be a great addition.

For example, I was just listening to Kiss that Frog (for about the 100th time), and I was struck with the (obvious?) idea that while the song speaks to the general theme of transformation and rebirth (as implied in the main essay), it could also easily be read as pretty blunt metaphor for oral sex, with the frog representing male genitalia. This type of writing is exactly what we see in “Sledge Hammer.” "Come Talk to Me" also arguably contains allusions that are pregnant with similar meanings. An essay on this topic would examine lyrical themes and how they relate to musical themes, and would include supporting quotes and references.

(text below moved by Calair

re== Musical Criticism == first of all that is not musical criticism. He even said sledge hammer was an inuendo. [link to copyvio website removed] second "Come Talk to me" was about about the difficulty he had communicating with his daughter. [link to copyvio website removed] Kiss the frog was NOT about oral sex either. You need to do more research. Peter Gabriel is not some sick man who sings about stuff like that,except in sledgehammer of course ;).

Although you're probably right, be careful with using songfacts.com as a source for accurate information. For example, one of the facts on that Sledgehammer link says that Genesis had a #1 with "Invisible Touch" a few weeks after Gabriel, when really it was Genesis who was number one, and the following week, Gabriel knocked his former bandmates from the top spot. Only time that happened in Billboard history, too.--Ataricodfish 16:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC) (end moved material - --Calair 02:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC))

Sexual themes, positive and negative, are actually quite common in PG's songs. For instance:

• 'Sledgehammer', as above;
• 'Steam' (if the lyrics seem ambiguous, watching the video clip will settle any doubts on that score);
• 'Barry Williams Show' ("My SM lover hurt me, my girl became a man...");
• 'Counting Out Time', a Genesis-era song about a young man learning to make love from a book ("Erogenous zones, I question you/ Without you, mankind handkinds through the blues...";
• The end of 'Big Time' ("Look at my circumstance/ And the bulge in my big big big..." - while he doesn't complete the rhyme, the intent is obvious);
• 'Intruder' ("I know where to find precious things in all your cupboards and drawers... I like the touch and the smell of all the pretty dresses you wear...");
• 'Blood of Eden' - "In the blood of Eden/ Lie the woman and the man/ The man in the woman/ And the woman in the man". There are other ways that could also be taken, but it's hard to imagine that he didn't recognise the sexual interpretation.

FYI, the iTunes album review cites Kiss That Frog as a "fellatio ode" ... 18.220.1.58 03:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I would actually be fairly surprised if PG hadn't realised that 'Kiss That Frog' could be taken sexually; it comes across as tongue-in-cheek to me. But Wikipedia isn't the place to conduct original research, including literary criticism and analysis; the most we can do here is summarize and point readers to pre-existing discussion on these topics. --Calair 02:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Cousin to Phil Collins?

IMDB trivia and an Amazon review claim PG is Phil Collins' cousin - neither of those are really convincing sources, though. Anybody seen this mentioned elsewhere?

I've never heard such a thing. 10-20 years ago I picked over Gabriel/Genesis trivia pretty carefully. It's possible, I suppose. In the early 1980s a number of people made observations like "Peter Gabriel sure sounds/sings a lot like Phil Collins." But in fact Collins had been the drummer doing background vocals for several years behind Gabriel, and Collins' singing was heavily influenced for many years as a result. You can hear Collins in (for example) "The Colony of Slippermen" singing with Gabriel and he sounds very similar. By the time of Security and Abacab, Gabriel and Collins didn't sound that much alike anymore. Maybe this is the sort of thing that leads people to think they are related. Joseph N Hall 11:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Gabriel + Laurie Anderson Live on MTV on New Year's Day, 198?

Gabriel and Laurie Anderson performed live at around midnight, New Year's Day, on MTV. I don't remember the year. Maybe it was 1985? They performed a very sparse setpiece-like version of "Excellent Birds." I was watching, saw it, et cetera. Does anyone remember this and/or have a reference for it? Joseph N Hall 11:31, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

SEX Scene in music video

ok, listen to this. i was just watching the video for games without frontiers (its a dvd so no link) and i swear i can see a girl giving head in the movie. its at the part where peter says jane plays with lotti, lotti plays with jane and on the t.v. in the background theres a girl giving head. am i going crazy or can anyone else see it? if its there worth mentioning... - unsigned comment by 69.158.109.88 on 00:32 (UTC), August 19 2006

I believe you are in error. I saw no such scene. What is displayed on the television monitors is the cycle of images of Peter playing with his face- the same sort of images that are full screen just before he starts to sing. link-[1] - Jeffrywith1e 09:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the YouTube link. That's just stunning. Gabriel said repeatedly in the 80s that he would never include the video for Games without Frontiers in a collection. That is in fact the first time I've ever seen it. It got extremely limited airplay. Do you know where that interview+video is from? Joseph N Hall 11:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I suspect that's a re-edited video, and not the original. The version I'm more familiar with is available here. - EurekaLott 18:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

That interview segment is from the DVD - PLAY (with the introduction option turned on). - Jeffrywith1e 19:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The video you posted is quite different in parts. I wonder if there was an issue with any of those children and release forms or something. Thanks for the link. - Jeffrywith1e 19:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Obligatory Twain quote here

Reverted edits by 69.142.21.24 claiming that PG had died on September 4 2006 as apparent vandalism (Googling turned up nothing by way of substantiation). --Calair 07:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo

A more actual photo would be better. --141.43.142.156 16:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

While I'm not 100% sure what "a more actual photo" means, I think a current photo needs to be used in the infobox. The older photo can be used later in the article, but a date, or at least year, of the photo should be given. I did some looking around but I couldn't find any good photos, hopefully someone can find a better photo. Naufana : talk 22:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Recon

Peter Gabriel starred in a short (very short) film called Recon. You can see it here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1v5YAuooeo

Here's the blurb from YouTube;

"Peter Gabriel starred in a student film written and directed by Breck Eisner, son of Disney boss Michael Eisner. PG plays a cop named John Grant who pursues villians via technology, it was filmed in the LA Subway system in 1994. It was never released to the public. It was only shown at some film festivals. From The Box issue 3.1 (December 1994): 'Peter Gabriel has recently taken the lead role in a short film produced by Wild Track Productions in Hollywood. In the film, entitled "RECON", Peter plays the character of future cop John Grant, a man with no face, on a criminal investigation which takes him across the boundaries of time. The original screenplay was written by Director Breck Eisner and producer Steven Cantor. Music composed by Jonathan Elias. Filming took place in October on location in the new LA subway system. The experience was described by Peter as "exciting, and lots of fun, but exhausting!""--DizFreak ^{talk Contributions} 05:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how accurate this is...certainly Gabriel's character has a face, but regardless it's an interesting project for him and I'd like to know more about it.

Mattcolville 18:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It is accurate. PBS mentions it when they discuss Cantor's career including the film RECON. Last I heard the only way to see the actual film is to get a bootleg or You Tube. It was a college project for Eisner and Cantor.--DizFreak ^{talk Contributions} 05:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Peter Gabriel a fan of Wikipedia?

This article claims that Peter Gabriel is a fan of Wikipedia.

Another article by Gabriel himself in the news recently mentions Wikipedia, and another article related to Gabriel gives Wikipedia a passing mention.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 01:09, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

If so, then a big hello to Peter from an Australian fan of Genesis and his solo albums! :-) 210.50.56.103 04:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Place of birth

Quite a few other source indicate Woking as Gabriel's place of birth (most recently, this Guardian interview: http://music.guardian.co.uk/pop/story/0,,2106277,00.html ), while Chobham's only mentioned as the place where he lived & went to school. So which is it? I thought he was born in Santiago, Canada. This is really news to me. Thanks!

Yes, which is? Encyclopaedia Britannica says Woking while Grove Music says Cobham but everywhere else it's (C(h)obham with no consensus. Hazel75 11:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Musicians and Collaborators

I have deleted the first line of this paragraph,

While the gaps between his studio album releases have become longer and longer (six years between So and Us, ten between Us and Up),

because it is demonstrably false. Gabriel's next studio album after "So" (1986) was not "Us" (1992) but "Passion" (1989). Similarly, Gabriel's next studio albums after "Us" were "Ovo" and "Long Walk Home" in 2000, and not "Up" as stated. Given that introducing qualifiers into the first would seem to amount to nit-picking, I thought it better to get rid of it altogether. --Justificatus (talk) 20:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Big Blue Ball

I saw an edit to the article that included this title and Googled it (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002950818) the resulting Billboard article is nearly a year old. I know Gabriel doesn't rush, but is this release still planned?

Yes, his latest song that was released on the Long Way Down soundtrack ("Whole Thing") is said to be the first single from it.70.247.40.231 (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Bipolar disorder...

Well, as far as I'm aware, this bipolar disorder story was never confirmed... It's just a rumor and, despite some claims, the man never confirmed it. So, I think the sentence "It has been reported that he has bipolar disorder." does not belong in an encyclopedia, which needs to get its facts straight. For instance, the article could mention that he's known to be a vegetarianm although he recently admitted enjoying fish every now and then.

• I removed the cat. that suggested Gabriel is Bi-Polar. I have been a fan for 20 years and have never read or heard of anything that even suggests this. In my opinion it's nonsense and any cat. addition or entry that states this, should be supported with some facts, references or links Stephenjh 22:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of speculation out there to that effect (googling 'peter gabriel bipolar' will pull up dozens of examples), probably fuelled by some of his lyrics, but I don't know of anything solid enough to justify categorisation here. --Calair 00:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but Googling something doesn't make it true. Just finding Gabriel's name on a list doesn't make it worthy of encyclopeadic entry. I would be more interested in finding this Bipolar issue in print in a newspaper, or magazine (and therefore archived on the net). I'm rather surprised to see it listed at www.IMDB.com too. I think it's just "net rumour" and / exaggeration. Stephenjh 08:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Anybody can submit information for IMDB's 'trivia' sections, and AFAICT that stuff doesn't get checked very carefully. (You'll note that the same section also claims he's Phil Collins' cousin, which also seems fairly shaky.) I'm not arguing that the claim that PG is bipolar is true or that it should be included in the article, just that it's a fairly common piece of speculation and I'm surprised you haven't encountered it before.

Gabriel has certainly alluded to depression of some form; this Evening Standard article states that "[PG] has, in the past, talked at length about his own depression in his forties", and in this Yahoo interview he says "I have a depressive part of my nature and a hopeful, energetic side... It still oscillates between moments of depression and moments of joy and happiness." Combining such comments with his work patterns and some of his songs, there's plenty of fodder for speculation there.

That said, I am completely in agreement with you that the category doesn't belong on this article without stronger evidence than that. Articles should not be categorised on the strength of speculation, and IMHO people should not be categorised as bipolar unless we have evidence that they've been diagnosed as such by a competent psychiatrist. --Calair 11:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree with the above. I believe Gabriel was included in a list in a book by Kay Redfield Jamison, stated as the primary source of a list much reproduced on the internet, but don't have a copy to hand. Gabriel has spoken publicly of psychotherapy, but not as far as I know of bipolar or explicitly manic states. --195.248.116.49 (talk) 20:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

With respect, the comments he made are an observation of himself, and one that we could all make to a greater or lesser degree depending upon our own self awareness. As humans, we all have mood swings and experience 'opposites', how we define and discuss them is subjective. Unless Gabriel specifically stated he's Bipolar, or it's been printed (unchallenged) in the press, I wouldn't want to see him defined as Bipolar on a Living Person Wiki Bio. Stephenjh 12:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing on anything here :-) --Calair 13:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No we're not :) But, as I deleted the cat. I thought it important to state why, add some discussion here, and check the consensus. Sometimes these things end up in unnecessary conflicts. Stephenjh 16:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Birthday? Martin C. Strong's Great Rock Discography says PG was born May 13th, not Feb.

I have seen his birth certificate, it states Feb. 13 DisneyFreak96 05:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

To prevent No Original Research I am linking you to Real World Studios which mentions his birthday gifts in early March. "3-Mar-2007 This update brings talk of an emptier, more 'stripped-back' approach to audio in his current studio work, birthday gifts and high praise for the meastro of the upright bass Danny Thompson"--DizFreak ^{talk Contributions} 05:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Any speculation obviously doesn't meet WP:V, and we should be careful to cite WP:RS in a WP:BLP, especially for a guy who admits to reading Wikipedia...-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 22:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Peter Gabriel's EVE works on XP

I just read in the main page that the EVE game didn't work on modern Operative Systems, well... it so happens I'm actually playing EVE as I write this on my XP computer system. So it's wrong to assume they don't work just because they were planned for other OS, as they DO work in my XP SP3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dieubussy (talk • contribs) 20:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

New Album Title???

I am a little confused about the "Recent work and appearances" section of the article. It states that "... Peter Gabriel has announced that he will release his next album in the U.S. without the aid of a record company. Gabriel ... has raised £2 million towards recording and 'shipping' his next as-yet-untitled album in a venture with investment boutique Ingenious Media..."

The very next paragraph notes that "Gabriel's new album, Big Blue Ball, will be launched in America thanks to a venture capital trust initiative..." Is "Big Blue Ball" the official title of the album? Why does the previous paragraph state it is still untitled?

As a side note, I am a Gabriel fan but I have not been following the news recently. The last I heard, the new album was to be titled I/O (Input/Output), keeping up the tradition of two-letter words for the titles. Is "Big Blue Ball" the new name for I/O or is it an entirely different project? Thanks! 210.50.56.103 04:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Further to what I wrote above, it seems Wikipedia has web pages for I/O and Input/Output (!) but none for "Big Blue Ball". Here are the links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input/Output_%28album%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I/O_%28Peter_Gabriel%29

Is "Big Blue Ball" a reference to a Zorb ball by any chance????  ;-) 210.50.56.103 04:17, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Big New Ball is not the new album. It's a collaborative album that came out a while back. I/O is a separate and more recent project StevenEdmondson (talk) 20:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Track Listing Vandalism

So far I've detected two albums in the Peter Gabriel Discography in wich somebody added songs that are not in the album. The first I think was Peter Gabriel 2, can't be sure, it was a couple of weeks ago, I simply undid the edit, but today I found an extra song in "Passion" called "Is This The Newborn" wich isn't in the album, I checked against my CD, Amazon and the Official Peter Gabriel Discography just in case there was a special edition or something I was not aware of. I'll check the rest of the albums. Just be on the lookout if someone adds more fake songs.

gen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gen77c (talk • contribs) 03:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

what's the deal with the last paragraph in the personal life section? it talks about a lawsuit that p.g. "settled" with wiseau records and "ceo" tommy wisseau, something about wiseau and greg sestero cowrote songs from p.g.'s last five albums, and something about unauthorized use of songs in the movie the room. it then quotes p.g., claiming it's one of his "favorite films of all time"? the room is a notoriously "so bad it's hilarious" film "directed" and "starring" tommy wiseau. (sorry for all the irony quotes!)

i did cursory checking and this is most certainly completely fabricated. also, this information is arrributed to entertainment MONTHLY, with no link provided.

just letting you guys know.

thanks.

kevin k. Sauget.diblosio (talk) 09:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Everyone is an editor. Feel free to delete it. MrMarmite (talk) 10:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

The reference to gated drum sound

... Gabriel's third album is generally credited as the first LP to use the now-famous "gated drum" sound, invented by engineer Hugh Padgham and Gabriel's old Genesis band-mate Phil Collins.

I don't actually know what the gated drum sound is. Please can someone post a sample of audio demonstrating the gated drum sound.

Klynchk 12:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Think of the drums in the transition to chorus in Collins' "In the Air Tonight". Electonically gated refers to how the analog sound of the drum beat is abruptly distorted at the end of the beat in a noticeably electronic fashion. But "talking about music is like dancing about architecture", isn't it? Piperdown 03:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, there's a sample of that here. --Calair 09:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The 'gated drum' thing piqued my interest so I followed the link which goes to 'gated reverb.' That article discusses 'gated drum' and Hugh Padgham but nothing about XTC's "Drums & Wires." So what's the real story? We've got an apparent bit of 'gated drum history' in two separate articles, and they don't fit together to give me a whole picture.

I think someone should take out the claim that phil collin's invented the 'gated drum' sound, since peter used it in his 1980 album and in the air tonight came out after it, meaning that Peter used it first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.63.126 (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

"sigh" - Collins invented the sound for use on PG's album - and then carried on using the sound on his own work. -- Beardo (talk) 05:54, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Influences:

rock and roll hall of fame.

should it be noted that gabriel did not appear at the ceremony for genesis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.106.71 (talk) 21:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

It is mentioned, albeit in the future tense, at the bottom of the "Recent work" section. AtticusX (talk) 02:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Beavon?

Is the reference to Thomas Beavon correct or vandalism? "Us... explored the pain of recent personal problems; his failed first marriage, his relationship with Thomas Beavon, and the growing distance between him and his first daughter".

This phrase is not referenced, and I cannot find anything about this person on the internet. I think this is a "joke".85.240.144.184 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:35, 18 April 2010 (UTC).

Religious Persuasion

Is it known which religion - if any - he belongs to? I heard somewhere that he was Buddhist, but I'm not sure of that. It'd be nice if someone could add info on his religious persuasion somewhere in the article. 205.250.9.39 (talk) 21:08, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Work with Cyan Worlds and Myst

I noticed on his page that there was no mention of his involvement with the Myst franchise. While "Burn You Up, Burn You Down" was only featured in Uru: Ages Byeond Myst, he actually re-recorded and remixed an old B-Side song, "Curtains" for Myst IV: Revelation. He also provided voice work in the game. I added a little sentence or two about it in "other projects". Because this is him being an voice actor and not just having a song featured in the game, I also added Myst IV: Revelation to the "other" section of Template: Peter Gabriel. EDIT: I went and re-signed this page with my username now that I have an account. MagnumVsRockford (talk) 03:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! AtticusX (talk) 22:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

"Strawberry Fields Forever"

I am not sure if this information belongs in the article, but "Strawberry Fields Forever" was the first solo recording by Peter Gabriel to be released after his departure from the band Genesis. I recently deleted it from the article All This and World War II (where it didn't fit) and am trying to find a home for it. It looks like it might belong here, but I will leave it to others to decide. HairyWombat 23:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey! Makeup cannot emit light! Nor can cotton clothing!

It is listed us so under Costumes in his article. This just doesn't make sense. It is a bit ridiculous. Infact... I just might take a screenshot and post it on Reddit. You fools won't know what hit you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.126.46.148 (talk) 06:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

reference 1 Peter Gabriel Biography

Error 4040 - page not found -- 92.74.49.52 (talk) 19:38, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Current Photograph

Not to say that the current photo isn't up to date, but it's poor quality. With the release of his 'New Blood' film, documentation of the tour (and photos) should be plentiful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.65.56.23 (talk) 02:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to change this horrible picture of Peter ? Please... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benj750 (talk • contribs) 16:24, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Featured picture candidate...

I really want that some of you vote for this nomination, but, the final decision is yours (without forget that: Only registered contributors whose Commons accounts have at least 10 days and 50 edits can vote)... Greetings! --Araujojoan96 (talk) 15:08, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Peter Gabriel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I took a look at this article and it looks like a good, solid overview of Peter Gabriel's work. It could use some more references, though. The albums themselves would serve as the references to the personnel involved, but there could be some more referenceable material as far as his career progression. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 16:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 16:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 02:43, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Headline text

Quoting from this existing wiki on Peter Gabriel: "A lover of soul music, Gabriel was influenced by many different sources in his way of singing, mainly Nina Simone, Gary Brooker of Procol Harum and Cat Stevens. He also played the flute on Stevens' Mona Bone Jakon album in 1970." I strongly believe this list should include Otis Redding. Many years ago I read a quote from P. Gabriel saying something like: (only a paraphrase) Otis Redding is the greatest singer ever recorded." Or something similarly superlative. Sgsmith, nola 19:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Before modern times, Redding was more popular in England that the States - the album Otis Blue influenced just about every English aspiring singer of the era. It is highly probable that included PG - but an RS is required to state it.104.169.16.173 (talk) 02:32, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

guitar

I took guitar out of instruments since I never read anything about him playing one on any album. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.110.137.50 (talk) 17:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

And aren't we all thankful that he didn't! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.16.173 (talk) 02:35, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

My edits for Peter Gabriel Awards

Why did an ignorant user called Binksternet remove my edits? Hasn't that guy checked out what I edited? There are many mistakes by links for example the album Us is a link of the United States, the video album P.O.V. shows a television thing which has nothing to do with Peter Gabriel and so on. And I added Academy Awards, Golden Globe Awards and brought it all in a good looking form. By the way the overediting you did is worse and looks awful. Better check it out before removing my (improving) edits! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.20.171.32 (talk) 02:41, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

colloquial names for albums

hi, i know the colloquial album names for the self-titled albums are in the respective articles, but for navigation purposes these really seriously need to be on this page as well, otherwise the reader is presented with a list of self-titled articles in the discography section with no distinguishment. i added them after wanting to look up a specific one of them and finding no sensible way of doing it other than clicking on each one in turn. add them back. Playground Twist (talk) 12:35, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Instruments

While I believe many of the instruments listed were unnecessary, I would put flute, percussion (or tambourine), and keyboards back on. In Genesis, he was known as Genesis' vocalist and flautist. He also plays keyboards on every solo album. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 19:34, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I would restrict that to piano and not keyboards. Dabbled, perhaps, put the 88's is his bag.104.169.16.173 (talk) 02:36, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I would put vocals • flute • keyboards in there, without percussion. He plays keyboards on every solo album, ant the flute is being mentioned in the lede. Nowak Kowalski (talk) 20:50, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

@Nowak Kowalski: He's mainly known as a singer, all other instruments are secondary and per Template:Infobox musical artist#instrument, secondary should be addressed in the article body, which they are. Consensus would be needed to list any others in the infobox. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:58, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Humanitarian

NapoleonX (talk · contribs) has removed the word "humanitarian" from the lede and infobox three times in the last 18 hours, claiming it is "just a compliment" and "not an occupation".

• Definition of occupation, not that it matters, per MOS:OPENPARABIO, which says, "4. The notable position(s) the person held, activities they took part in, or roles they played";
• Peter Gabriel/Archive 1 § Activist for humanitarian causes shows extensively-cited coverage;
• Other examples that immediately came to mind are Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Bono, Larry Ellison, all of which mention "humanitarian" and/or "philanthropist" in the lede and/or infobox). Despite WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, examples often reflect community consensus, especially when they are high-profile.

Is there a policy, guideline, or other discussion somewhere that contradicts this? (pinging Esowteric (talk · contribs), who was also involved) —[AlanM1(talk)]— 03:46, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

A humanitarian is not a "position". A position is something such as president of a company, an actor, a singer. Also being occupied by something is not the same as an occupation. Your job is your occupation. Activist also is not an occupation. It is something that people put on rich or famous people. All people are active in political advocacy, just because they are famous does not make that their occupation. And philanthropist is different than a "humanitarian." A philanthropist usually has created a foundation. A humanitarian is somebody that some people see as so "special" because of their wealth or fame, and bestow this title on. Also just because Peter Gabriel's fame, his activities are noted by the press. This does not make him a "humanitarian." He is just a person like anybody else that contributes time to some causes, this just makes him a person not a "humanitarian." NapoleonX (talk) 04:16, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

• "4. The notable position(s) the person held, activities they took part in, or roles they played"
• humanitarian: "Definition of humanitarian : a person promoting human welfare and social reform : philanthropist"
• All people are active in political advocacy. No, they are not. Nor are all (or even many, relatively) people humanitarians/philanthropists. Peter Gabriel has, indeed, created a foundation, according to the cited article section and its cited (and plenty of other) sources. The sections above and below, too.

—[AlanM1(talk)]— 08:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I haven't checked wiki guidelines, this is just the "feeling" I get about this issue; the spirit of the law (equity) rather than the letter of the law, if you like. Perhaps we can arrive at a consensus here?

I think, NapoleonX, that you're dealing in semantics. To me, an occupation is whatever significant things you do to occupy your time or "working life", regardless of whether this is an "official" position and whether or not you are paid to do so; or something to which you are committed, a driving force in your life. So, for example, Emmeline Pankhurst is described in the first sentence of her lede as a "political activist and leader of the British suffragette movement" (though I guess you could argue that mention of her activism rests on the fact that she had a leadership role in that field); and someone else might be described as "a volunteer whatever." Regards, Esowteric+Talk 11:05, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

As for the lede, "The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents." and the humanitarian/philanthropic work that Peter Gabriel does is very significant in his life. It's an important part of what makes Peter, Peter; a well-rounded character.Esowteric+Talk 11:16, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Further input solicited at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography § Input requested at Talk:Peter Gabriel#Humanitarian —[AlanM1(talk)]— 20:49, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

• Comment: AlanM1 to answer your initial question, no there's no piece of policy (aside from the style guidance which you already identified at MOS:OPENPARABIO) which sets a default as to whether humanitarian work can or cannot be mentioned as an occupation; that is something which will be more or less appropriate for a given article by virtue of the WP:WEIGHT of descriptions of the subject in WP:reliable sources, as determined by the WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. I will say this much: for a certainty there are (at a minimum) hundreds of bios that use that descriptor on en.Wikipedia.

That said, the challenge you face as someone who wants to include the descriptor, is that it still has to be used directly by sources; you can't just look at all the wonderful things said about Mr. Gabriel in that activist section and then determine for yourself that he is worthy of a particular title/descriptor--no matter how solid the case seems to us, that would still be WP:original research by way of WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not permitted as a valid argument for including a given description in an article. What you will need is a few sources directly and explicitly describing Gabriel as a humanitarian. Probably more than one, to meet the WP:WEIGHT burden, but a small handful, maybe even as few as two will suffice, provided they use the description directly. Are there such sources in this case?

It's worth noting that this issue does come up from time to time in contemporary musician bios, with various variations of "humanitarian", "philanthropist", or "activist", with results all over the place; it really just does come down to how much the work has become an integral part of the artist's celebrity/notability--or more precisely, how they are commonly described in sources. Snow ^{let's rap} 23:32, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

@Snow Rise: I noted that the three large relevant sections of the article are well-cited and read some of the cites. I don't think any reasonable person could read those and conclude that the label "humanitarian" is mis-placed. However, just to be sure, I googled the exact phrase "humanitarian Peter Gabriel" and got 549 hits. Knowing how counts can be deceiving, I looked at the first few[2][3][4][5] just to be sure we weren't somehow being deceived by a PR campaign.

Having said that, I take issue with an absolute need for sources to have used the label directly. When someone is the founder of an organization (WITNESS) that has the express purpose of "activism for human rights", is the recipient of the Amnesty International "Ambassador of Conscience" award for "...leadership in the fight to protect and promote human rights",[6] the Council of Europe's "Lisbon North-South Prize" for "...individual rights protection"[7], and other awards, is repeatedly mentioned as helping to organize and participate in benefit concerts with other noted humanitarians and organizations whose express purposes are humanitarian in nature (see the cites in the article), per WP:FACTS, it's clear that he's a humanitarian, and it would seem silly to purposely leave it out of the lede and infobox while a good portion of the article is devoted to talking about it.

I'll note that's not even the argument the editor made for his removal of the long-standing label (three times in 18 hours, BTW) from the article, without discussion anywhere, as they have apparently done at a number of other articles. (last 'graph added) —[AlanM1(talk)]— 03:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Well, WP:BLUESKY is an essay, whereas WP:SYNTH is policy--and indeed, specifically a policy which touches upon one of the most basic, long-standing, and widely-accepted principles of community consensus. I also don't think that this is a great example of what the types of universally-accepted, non-controversial facts the authors of that essay were trying to get at. It may be difficult to accept at times that we can't apply our own idiosyncratic analysis of a subject when we are certain that the description is dead-on, but the process we have serves an important purpose, in removing our own bias from our presentation of the subject matter; that system would just not be feasible if we dropped the prohibition on SYNTH whenever we are "really, really sure" on this one.

All that said, it's worth looking at the specifics; as it happens, I ran exactly the same search as you did out of curiosity a few hours ago. I found the exact same two sources as you that use a direct reference to Gabriel as a "humanitarian"; there were others, but most of them were not WP:RS (indeed, most were obvious copies of our own article which has used that term in the lead for some time, apparently). However, I did find four other sources which used the term "humanitarian activist". It's possible that a search for more sources will turn up additional such uses--I searched through ten pages of results and only found those just mentioned, but I certainly would't rule out more sources in print using the same labels--Gabriel has been doing this kind of work for a long while, afterall, since well before the music/entertainment industry press was mostly online. In any event, you could make a good argument for using "humanitarian" based on even a small handful of cases--they may be enough to win over other respondents to this RfC as they arrive.

Alternatively, I think its worth considering using the label "humanitarian activist", since 1) it seems to appear at least as often in sources as "humanitarian" alone, and probably more often, 2) it's arguably more WP:PRECISE to the type of work being discussed, and 3)it may assuage the concerns expressed by NapoleonX, since it references a more specific quasi-professional role as a part of the description. Just food for thought. I'll come back in a day or two and look at what is going on with the sourcing before lodging my own !vote, but I suspect I will be willing to support either variation, though I lean towards the latter. Snow ^{let's rap} 03:28, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

It's definitely a WP:DUE problem, and MOS:OPENPARABIO is being misread. What we should be doing here is identifying Gabriel as a singer-songwriter in the lead sentence, then somewhere else in the lead paragraph mention his humanitarian work, without labeling him "a humanitarian" as if it's an occupation. It is not even close to tied to his notability. If Gabriel were just some random guy who had significant money (quietly inherited from obscure businesspeople parents, perhaps) and was devoting some of it and his time to humanitarian causes, he would not be notable and would not have an article here, any more than the at least hundreds of thousands of other people who have set up foundations and so on, and don't have articles here. His humanitarian activities get a bit of press because and only because he's already famous for entirely unrelated reasons, just as actors and politicians get coverage for their memoirs or for playing in charity golf tournaments who would never get any mention in the press for these things if they were not already notable as actors and politicians.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:16, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

It's more than a "bit of press" in this case. He is routinely labeled a humanitarian by sources. Should we not reflect this unless we can determine (with great certainty) that it's all wrong and some kind of PR stunt? What's the litmus test? How much time/money does one need to spend in order to qualify? Or are you objecting to the label entirely, for anyone? The quote above does not say it must be a "job" to be in the lede sentence ("activities they took part in, or roles they played"), and if we don't know for sure, shouldn't we follow the cited RSs? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 22:06, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I think Alan's got you there, McCandlish! On the one hand, I think your analysis of the coverage is, in pragmatic terms, probably spot on. I mean, insofar as you say "His humanitarian activities get a bit of press because and only because he's already famous for entirely unrelated reasons", we're obviously talking about conjecture and no one can ever know for certain (unless they have the ability to visit parallel realities), but I'd guess that you are likely correct. On the other hand, that's pretty much WP:original research on your part; it's not really for us as editors to deconstruct what we think are the probable causes of the attention someone gets, which would insert personal perspective and bias into our content. Rather we should use the labels and descriptions which have the most WP:WEIGHT in reliable sources, regardless of what we think about whether the subject would have earned that label if not for the fact that they were already famous, as that's not really in our purview to decide here. Now personally, I am on the fence about whether "humanitarian" is justified by the sources here--or at least the ones presented so far. Now that I've had time to re-evaluate the sources, I think maybe no, though I also think "humanitarian activist" may still be on the table, as that is used in quite a few more sources. But regardless, even if he loses the weight analysis in the long run, I think Alan has correctly identified that as the proper test under policy. Snow ^{let's rap} 05:03, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Concerts

I saw my first concert with you and Genesis at Massey Hall in Toronto Your Watcher of the Skies was my interest to music I also saw your show on my 18th birthday, just before I went to Spain Peter my favourite is Biko It means we have to forgive and remember Nance 67.71.60.149 (talk) 22:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Genre

I propose the genres be changed back to the heavily sourced sub genres of progressive rock, art rock, art pop, and worldbeat. The current ones are misleading, as few sources say that Gabriel performed these genres. 149.7.35.194 (talk) 19:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

You cannot propose that, as it is explicitly against the current guideline for the infobox. Less general genres can be specified at the individual articles covering his musical works. Piotr Jr. (talk) 00:10, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

So how come Genesis' page doesn't just say "Rock, pop" then? Why don't we dumb down every artist page on here? 194.81.169.3 (talk) 15:51, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

If generalized genres offend you, then that is something you should deal with on your own terms... I'm not interested in Genesis, so I haven't looked at the article... Piotr Jr. (talk) 05:00, 7 April 2022 (UTC)