Talk:Polenta

Merging

Oppose. It seems that there are already a half dozen articles on specific cultural preparations of boiled cornmeal mush, from Europe, Africa, and South America. As they are all interlinked with "see also," I don't see it as particularly necessary that they all be included in one huge article entitled "Cornmeal mush" (or, worse yet, that the Italian term be used as the title of an article which also discusses southern African sadza and Romanian mamaliga).

What's wrong with having an article on cornmeal mush? It wouldn't be "huge" if properly merged because much of the content is redundant. I think it's much more ridiculous to have a half dozen articles on different names for cornmeal mush. —Keenan Pepper 14:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

They're more than just names - they go with different preparations of maize meal, different resulting textures and different accompaniments. BarryNorton 22:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I should have guessed: a member of the mergist society!  :) Badagnani 18:00, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

If they had a card, I'd carry it. =P —Keenan Pepper 20:39, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Grits vs Polenta

Polenta it's yuppie for Grits. They are the same thing really!

Grits is a very regionally specific thing - very US centric. Polenta is relatively similar to Pap or Sadza in Southern Africa/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.179.225 (talk) 13:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

that's very american-centric, people in other countries would have noi idea what grits are, whereas they know what polenta is Franny-K (talk) 18:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, grits and polenta are extremely similar, but polenta is made with ordinary cornmeal (used for bread in the US). Grits are made from hominy, which is white corn that has had the outer hull of the kernels removed by disvolving in sodium-hydroxide. Grits are NOT gritty in texture, except before cooking. Please do not alter the article to include statements like "grittier still," which is inaccurate. Thank you

Perhaps they were gritty originally? --bonzi (talk) 08:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

This is incorrect. I've purchased many varieties of Italian and North American-produced polenta, and the grind and color are not the same as "ordinary corn meal." Badagnani 05:53, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll take your work for this, then. But as a Southerner, I can assure you that grits are made from hominy. Does polenta include the hull?

As a descendant of northern Italians, ;) I'm sure it doesn't include the hull. But I don't think hominy does either; posole doesn't either. Badagnani 06:05, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I, OTOH, am sure it does. I am Croat of Dalmatian descent, and both in my parents' hometown (or rather 'homevillage') and here around Zagreb polenta (pura and žganci, respectively) was staple (and to some extent still is: there are dozens of dishes that go with it). You simply grind whole kernels. Even very popular instant variety (which takes 2 or 3 minutes of boiling to cook and gives rather decent result; I think it is prepared by blanching and toasting the meal) has the same intensely yellow colour and somewhat gritty texture. Regrettably, I never tasted grits, but South African pap is paler, smoother and blander. --bonzi (talk) 08:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Although grits may be made from ground hominy and polenta made from ground (non-nixtamalized/hominy-ized) corn, I think they taste fairly similar. Although the grits I usually get at places like Denny's or Perkins are white in color and polenta is usually yellow. Badagnani 06:10, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Without anymore knowledge about the hull issue, let's leave the article as is. I agree that grits do indeed look different from polenta, but the taste (or lack thereof) is very similar. Most of the flavor comes from what you add of course. Hominy is white.--Drsjmitchell 06:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Polenta and cornmeal mush are the same thing according to Julia Childs. Unless you can make cornbread and grits from the same meal, grits is not polenta.Nitpyck (talk) 21:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

• As a northern Italian, I suggest you to try the polenta (only made from ground yellow corn!) sliced and then fried: it's great! Garr, 05/01/2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.148.63.215 (talk) 15:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

McMuffin

McDonald's McMuffins are dusted with finely ground polenta. < you mean the English muffin (bread) part of an Egg McMuffin? Isn't that just regular corn meal/cracked corn? Polenta is the dish made out of boiled corn meal. Not sure if this is appropriate here.> Hide, AFAIK this is not true, polenta is a very different thing-->

Moved from article to discussionWarrington (talk) 09:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Gruel/porridge

Why did someone add gruel/porridge as synonyms? These are thin in texture, while polenta is quite thick. Please explain here. Badagnani 06:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I did that (Mitchell). Gruel is usually thinner, but porridge is thick. The porridge article (the same article as gruel) lists grits and polenta as types of corn porridge. The polenta article should link to porridge.--Drsjmitchell 06:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

My mistake, but I'm still not familiar with a thin, gruel-like version of polenta, at least not in the conventional sense of the term. Or are you referring to the original non-maize-based food as eaten by the Romans? Badagnani 06:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I meant that polenta is related to the roman dishes and gruel. Gruel is an ancient dish. --Drsjmitchell 20:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture

Is a picture of deep fried cornmeal really reprentative of a traditionally boiled, peasant dish? Does anyone out there have a better picture? If you do PLEASE remove the current picture and add your own. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.88.59.219 (talk) 21:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree that this picture does not represent European polenta. I'd propose deleting it, even if there is no replacement. - David Bürge, Switzerland 83.76.51.140 20:02, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the picture, please someone replace it with a new one. I will try to make polenta this week and take a picture of it to post. - tvinniet, 17 March 2007 --—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tvinniet (talk • contribs)

Christopher Kimball/Cook's illustrated citation

at least one authority (Christopher Kimball of Cook's Illustrated magazine) has asserted that cooking polenta using modern ingredients should take only seven minutes.

Where does he say this?
I use the Cook's Illustrated polenta recipe—in fact I made the Parmesan and butter variation just the other day—and the listed cooking time is "about 30 minutes".
JFD 15:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. Found it. It was in an article about microwave cookery as opposed to an article primarily about polenta. JFD 01:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 05:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed Slovenia from the list of countries that call polenta žganci since in my whole life of living in Slovenia I have never heard anyone confuse the two. Swizec (talk) 02:15, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Contradiction

This statement:

Polenta is originally an Italian word, derived from the Latin for hulled and crushed grain, especially barley-meal; the source of cornmeal, maize, was not cultivated in Europe until the early 16th century.[2] It also comes from the same base as "pollen"[1].

...seems to be in direct contradiction to what is said in the article on Chestnuts:

Chestnuts can be dried and milled into flour, which can then be used to prepare breads, cakes, pancakes, pastas (it is the original ingredient for polenta,[5] known in Corsica as pulenda)...

Pollifax (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:37, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the report, I've corrected Chestnut. I actually doubt there's an "original ingredient" for polenta, which is a common name for a a poor food made of different flours across ages (indeed barley in Latin, according to DELI). The peak of polenta was in the maize era, though, so that's what the word currently means. --Nemo 12:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This talk of pulmentum and pollen obscures a simpler fact that Latin had the word "polenta" (Apuleius has someone choke on it in the Metamorphoses, where it is combined with cheese), although it meant barley groats then and has since changed its meaning. Vince Calegon 10:57, 2 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Calegon (talk • contribs)

Central Italy or Northern Italy?

Is polenta really popular in Central Italy? Polenta can be found mostly in the central and upper Lombardy and in the North East of Italy. Do we even find the word polenta in Tuscany (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_toscana)? Or in Emilia (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_emiliana)? Or in Marche (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_marchigiana)? No we don't but we do here: Lombardy (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_lombarda) and here: Veneto (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneto#Cucina), and, what do you know, even here: Friaul (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_friulana) and here: Trentino (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucina_trentina). Kind regards, --Mondschein English (talk) 00:08, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Well yes, it's popular at least in Tuscany (where I live). My grandparents used to eat a lot of polènta (yes, with open e!) during winter days. It was cooked in a large paiolo (a Tuscan word, indeed!) made of copper, it was put over a blanket and cutted with a tight spago. The slices of polenta were served with olive oil and parmesan, sometimes also with mushroom sauce. There was also a sweet variant made of chestnut wheat called polenta dolce or pattona (corn polenta was called polenta gialla). Nowadays fried slices of polenta gialla are very popular in street food sagre around Tuscany. Kind regards.--Carnby (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Why do you accuse me of vandalizing a page? Your opinion is duly noted, and I am glad your grandparents used to make it for you, I hope you enjoyed it, but this is Wikipedia and we need sources: until you find reliable sources that state that Polènta with an open e is popular in Tuscany, we need to keep it out. Also, given that Polenta is popular in Northern Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Croatia, etc. it is indeed a Central European dish. Ciao, --Mondschein English (talk) 01:55, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Paiolo a tuscan word? It does not look that way: http://www.etimo.it/?term=paiuolo You need to provide sources, not original research. Ciao, --Mondschein English (talk) 02:18, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

I added reference for Tuscany; the presence of polenta in Switzerland, Austria, Croatia must be referenced. As far as I know true polenta is popular only in Italy (roughly) North of Rome (call it a Central-Northern Italian dish or, if you prefer, a Northern-Central Italian dish, but not a Northern Italian dish); thus it cannot be considered "Central European" (yes, Northern Italy and Croatia are in Southern Europe, at least accoding to United Nations geoscheme for Europe). Note also that in Northern Italian pronunciation preconsonantal /n/ is velar (take a look at this, even if it is about dialects not the regional pronunciation of Italian). As far as paiolo is concerned, it is a Tuscan word since it comes from VII c. Latin parjolum < *parium and /-rj-/ > /-j-/ is typical of Tuscan area (were it Northern or Southern Italian it would have been *parolo). Regards.--Carnby (talk) 22:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

the UN map is meaningless as it's a map that looks at political boundaries and puts all of Italy and thus northern italy in southern europe simply because most of italy is, while food mostly sticks to (physical) geography and in part ethnic boundaries. It makes no sense when talking about food to put south tyrol in southern Europe, apart from Austria, and to argue that Ticino is not in the same ethnogeographical area of Lombardy (the languages, cuisine and polenta are the same). Now if you consider the combined Padan-Venetian watershed as a coherent food space, whether that's in central or southern Europe is debatable, for me it's hard to say it's in southern europe given that the traditional fat is butter and not olive oil and the cuisine is unrelated to southern italy. Formagella (talk) 21:21, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

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Morokil

The Elhuyar dictionary clearly glosses morokil as gacha, farinetas (specie de papilla), which means it's not technically polenta though the demarcation between such dishes as not clear-cut. But it would be a stretch to say that the Basque word for polenta is morokil. The Interwiki goes to morokil but that's dubious and it says in the text that Azken aldian italierazko polenta hitza entzuten hasi da, morokilaren parekoa den janari italiar bat "Since recently the Italian word polenta can be heard, an Italian foodstuff similar to morokil" i.e. even the article makes a distinction between morokil and polenta. Either way, there's really little point to adding all potential translations/synonyms of polenta to the main text body, at best that's something for the See Also section. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Polenta#Etymology

Would anyone like to help me with this paragraph? JacktheBrown (talk) 14:00, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Overlap between Polenta, Mămăligă, Kačamak, Žganci, Mush (cornmeal)

These articles all appear to cover minor variations on the same dish. Some of them also have extensive lists of foreign equivalents which overlap greatly. I would propose a merge but each of the articles has a number of foreign language links, so it would be difficult and would leave a lot of article groups without an English equivalent.

A more feasible option would be to have each article cover the variants present in a particular culture or region (which according to comments on various talk pages sometimes differ slightly), and strictly separate them with links between them but without extensive descriptions as are found at Mămăligă. So polenta for example would cover only the places where cornmeal porridge is known as polenta: Italy, Brazil, Slovenia, Croatia, possibly others, but excluding Romania and Yemen. Un assiolo (talk) 18:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I happened to also notice that the cooked corn dish is oddly described - in Croatian these two words describe basically the same thing: žganci and palenta, and kačamak is explicitly defined as a synonym. I suppose we could upmerge all into mush (cornmeal) and piss off everyone equally? :) --Joy (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Though it would make sense to first use the more natural disambiguation in that title, corn mush? --Joy (talk) 09:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)