Talk:Profound Morality/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Chchcheckit (talk · contribs) 22:46, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 15:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll review this over the next few days :) Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 15:19, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you!! Chchcheckit (talk) 16:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Finished this for now. Will have another read over this, some concerns about it reading like it was written by a fan, although some of that might be systematic to being so detailed on a niche topic. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Please voice your concerns. // Chchcheckit (talk) 11:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

When the last points are addressed it should be fine. It was mostly issues with attribution, MOS:SAID and overly detailed in sections. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• • All uses of "Noted" and "Noting" are gone. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:53, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Prose and content

• It is the band's first release as a quartet featuring guitarist and vocalist Debbie Gough, who joined in 2019 had they been a quartet before?
  • This context is explained in the "Background and recording"; they formed as a trio. // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

There is some ambiguity in the sentence over whether it is their first release as a quartet, or their first release as a quartet featuring... Debbie Gough. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I added a comma. // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• in the span of five days filler words
  • agreed // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• inspired by the "rhetoric of wealth and class" attribute this better, avoid wikivoice making this proclamation. Could you also tell me what it means here?
  • Probably more an attribution issue: This is what Debbie Gough said in this stereogum interview.

You guys wrote Profound Morality at the height of the pandemic. Did those circumstances influence how that EP turned out?
GOUGH: I think so, yeah. I think a lot of the points that we were trying to make come down to those two factors of wealth and class and how those influence the way that the world runs, or the way that life goes. And obviously speaking about the concept of morality and how class and wealth comes into that, that was really the most prominent time for everybody to think about it as a world. The divide was very, very clear and there was no real way of disguising that. And things were kinda tipped on its head, like key workers being people who previously the government would not have praised as key workers at all. I think it just allowed for you to ask more and more questions which led to the broader theme of the EP. I think that rhetoric of wealth and class during COVID definitely made a lasting impression us.

(Underline by me) // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

• the morals of oneself and others when you say others, do you mean interpersonally? If not, it can just be cut to "morality"
  • I need to redo this one // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• During 2022, Heriot performed at several festivals including 2000trees... this sentence reads as a non-sequitur, link in the relationship with the album
  • So like, "To promote the EP, Heriot performed..." etc etc // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• supported in the past redundant
• that allowed them to reinvent their sound and become more methodical about how they operated some puffery in this sentence, aim for more objectivity, careful with wikivoice
  • Again quoting the band: rock sound: Jake: "As bad and weird as the lockdown was for everybody, we really tried to take advantage of that back in 2020. We tried to be a bit more methodical about how we did stuff, so we launched ourselves with the singles. and Knotfest: Gage - The lockdown ended up being a creative release for us in all honesty! With time on our hands, we’ve been able to really put our all into this new music and re-invent the band’s sound. I guess I could word/phrase this better. // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  I have redone this, focusing on Gage's quote because of it's relevance to the creative work(s)? Idk. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:22, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• "so I think there was an element of trust in going with them." better integrate this quote
  • sure // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• Soon after signing with Church Road, Heriot "quickly realised we actually had to make something", according to Gage. cut this
  • this line was more to do with why the recording may have been five days. but i see the problem there, yes. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• as they still wanted the freedom to experiment with their sound you need to attribute this. It is silly for Wikipedia to say that you can't experiment with your sound on an album
  • Didn't clarify this well, my bad. Guitarist Erhan Alman better explained it in a recent interview: "[T]he only reason it’s taken until now to get the record written and released is that you only get one go on a debut album so we wanted to do ourselves justice and do it when it was the right time." // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  Also: quoting Deb Gough: “We didn’t want to commit to an album so early on with being a four piece, as there’s still loads of different things we’re experimenting with, and we know there still a lot more to come. If we recorded an album straight away, we could have missed out on exploring loads of different sounds and textures that the EP has allowed us to dip our toe into.” Chchcheckit (talk) 13:02, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  OK, have redone this. Chchcheckit (talk) 12:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• and the band subsequently "worked backward towards it" according to Gage what does this mean?
  • Removed. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:24, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• I don't think Abaddon is spelt like that. Same with Abattoir.
  • it is spelt as such // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the problem is the article doesn't spell it like that. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Where? Sorry I may be blind // Chchcheckit (talk) 11:39, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Do a control F on "Abb". Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Just fixed. thanks Chchcheckit (talk) 12:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Boolin Tunes noted the videos for their "murky orange glow" MOS:SAID, I'm not sure what "noted" is doing here
  • my bad // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

  Fixed??? Chchcheckit (talk) 13:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Good, but remove the comma after "glow" WP:CINS

Done // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• no more than 400 people at a show, and for three nights in a row. reads awkwardly, the reader expects the second clause to also be modified by "no more than" but the "for" interrupts it.
  • Removed the paragraph because the more I look at it the more wp:synth-y it gets. F.
• the Dogtooth Stage why is this stage significant?
  • In terms of popularity, I guess. They headlined it (the stage). If I find a better source I'll use it. // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC) (Correction: they OPENED the stage.)

If you can find a source attributing importance to it, integrate it, else cut it.

• Heriot performed at six more festivals; and then you list 5? Also, I think a colon rather than a semicolon is appropriate here
  • OOPS // Chchcheckit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
• Profound Morality received generally positive reviews from critics. I'm sorry to be awful, but can you cut this, unless it's sourced to reliable sources?
  • Kerrang, Pitchfork and Metal Hammer are all reliable sources per Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Sources, and I'd argue that Brooklynvegan (which is published by project m group)falls under Wikipedia:Verifiability#What counts as a reliable source. I'm not sure about New Noise Magazine; we can debate this. Looking at the review's contents I'd assume you'd come to the same conclusion of reception? the second best option is to cite promotional jargon, articles or interviews which go on about "critical acclaim" i.e, metal hammer: "The Bristol quartet’s 2022 EP, Profound Morality, was released via Church Road Records and received critical acclaim." I'd rather not do that because 1. it's, well, promotional, and 2. the second paragraph displays how some critics found the album not perfect (INCLUDING metal hammer). // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:30, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

The issue isn't the individual sources, it's the aggregation being synth/or. We usually use metacritic to make these determinations, but I know it doesn't exist for this EP. If sources doing aggregations are promotional, best to just cut it and discuss what the sources say. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I understand, but I don't believe articles from before Metacritic don't have rough sentiment summaries?? i'd prefer to keep it, but if i have to, ill compromise. I have two ideas:

• 1. remove it
• 2. "critics praised..." notwithstanding of any "generally positive reviews" sentiment. I guess that too would imply a consensus.

// Chchcheckit (talk) 13:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Have a read of the convo going on right now on WT:GA as I think has a good variety of opinions. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 13:31, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks; was looking for something like that given Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Album article style advice#Critical reception doesn't say much. I guess judging by way of theme, the first recption paragraph focuses on what the album does right and the second on what it could improve from. I didn't exactly see it that way until right now. Either way, i'll use/incorporate your suggestion. // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Though noting that Heriot more MOS:SAID
  • fixed // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:03, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• In an interview with RushOnRock, Gage said that Heriot saw their relaunch in 2020 bit weird to attribute relaunch and then immediately use it in wikivoice in an efn
  • Not exactly. In the cited RushonRock interview, Gage says: "I think it’s very much a different band. We kind of relaunched in 2020. We see that as a fresh start: the only thing that really stayed is the name." I cited it as such (with Metal Hammer) so the idea of "relaunching" the band wasn't WP:OR as the interview does not refer to "Cleansed Existence". // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• Noted for its genre-blending sound don't use "noted" here.
  • Done // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• on the accountability why "the"?
  • typo from bad copyedit // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Suggestions

• and they ultimately enjoyed the experience of playing there does this need three sources supporting it haha? There is some WP:REFCLUTTER throughout
  • That was originally from a since scrapped idea. I'll fix this // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Still refclutter throughout. For instance, does "hardcore" need two sources? Not a GACR but still overwhelming. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Would it be better to format the genre references like in Deftones#Musical style, influences and legacy (1st paragraph), or just to use 1 ref per genre? Chchcheckit (talk) 12:42, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Just one each. The Deftones section is unreadable and ridiculous. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:47, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• In the tour section, you mention the year after every date. You don't need to do this, unless it has changed years, or it would be unexpected it's a new year.
  • already done // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:05, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• You don't have to link concision (or really blame)
  • yeah, WP:Overlink // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Sources

• I see you attribute the Source interview to "falber", why do you do this? And if you are attributing it to falber, why do you not give the surname "Teles"?
  • where's the surname?? I couldn't find it // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:38, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

In the website's about section. Although I couldn't see the name "falber" on the webpage, can you point it out? Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I think this came from the reference generator. Either way, I’ll add the surname. Chchcheckit (talk) 11:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

[Pausing ... ... ]

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 03:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll respond to these slowly as I'm doing things, I'll ping you when done. Any blue text is quoting sources.Chchcheckit (talk) 07:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Definitely agree that I worried about using "said" too much, thanks for pointing it out Chchcheckit (talk) 12:36, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

@Rollinginhisgrave Alright I've tried doing what you've suggested. Tick (as in, "Y") off anything you're happy with and tell me if I've misunderstood/missed anything. Thanks a lot. I suck with words. // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:49, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Continuing

Sources

• [5a] Y
• [10] Y
• [15] Y
• [20] Y
• [25] AGF
• [30] Y
• [35] N They only supported the November dates
• [40] Y
• [45] Y
• [50] Y but cut , but lost to Wargasm
  • Fixed [35] // Chchcheckit (talk) 12:28, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Other

• Images/media appropriately tagged caption Y. Samples appropriate length/quality.
• Neutral clock It has some issues with leanings, reading like it was written by a fan, but these have generally been addressed. A bit left.
• Stable Y
• Broad / summary style Y
• No OR / COPYVIO Y wp:earwig giving 27.5% from quotes

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

If you want me to provide the text of reference 25 (metal hammer January 2023) I will Chchcheckit (talk) 11:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

It's okay, your text-source fidelity is good. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:04, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@Rollinginhisgrave Alright I think I've done everything, and then some. How's it looking? Chchcheckit (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Looking good, just the Dogtooth comment and then good to pass. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 13:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Almost forgot; oops. // Chchcheckit (talk) 13:57, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Chchcheckit (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

(by which i mean; i cut the stage out) Chchcheckit (talk) 14:01, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.