Talk:Puducherry (union territory)/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Untitled

1. The map of India used is wrong for the state of Jammu & Kashmir. Can it be deleted? Also, the population is shown as 0,97 million. Is this 970,000? Maybe needs to be more clear.

2. The map of India is a partial. 'Jammu and Kashmir' landscape has been altered. Can you please replace the image with Complete India map image. - Srinibas

is a crucial syllable omitted from the following?

...Ponnuthammbi Pillai, moved the Paris court and won the case in which he was awarded a penalty by a French Magistrate in Pondicherry for walking into the court with footwear.

I would think it was probably withOUT footwear

Texteditor 19:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced accusations

On several occasions, the articles contains statements such as The elections were rigged etc. I know little about the topic, but I think that accusations, especially accusations with possible political biases, should come with a source. David.Monniaux 13:05, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

About rigging of elections - too common in the history of India!

About possible political biases - if you see one... rewrite it so that its a more neutral point of view. if you can't do so- delete it!

good luck... hydkat 09:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do change the second map .its not the truth

Split the page

This article should be about present-day Pondicherry and less about the [History of Pondicherry] for which we can have a seperate entry?

I would prefer the article shortened to give more details about the present-day Pondicherry Union-Territory.

hydkat 09:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. Text from the History section has been transferred to History of Puducherry.--Victor D ^PARLE 21:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Official Languages

Is Tamil and French the only official languages of Pondicherry? I dont think they speak tamil or french in Mahé or Yamen. Also, the Malayalam language page says Malayalam is an official language of pondicherry. Perhaps someone can sort out this inconsistency. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK} 14:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Spellin gmistake?

If this is in face the case, concerning the name PoNdicherry:

At some point, the hand-written 'u' was mistaken for an 'n', and the misspelling stuck.

Then how does this explain, necessarily the following:

The territory is called புதுச்சேரி (Putuccēri) or பாண்டிச்சேரி (Pāṇṭiccēri) in Tamil, పుదుచ్చేరి (Puduccēri) in Telugu, and പോത്തുച്ചേരി (Pōttuccēri) or പോണ്ടിച്ചേരി (Pōṇṭiccēri) in Malayalam

A spelling mistake seems unlikely? Are there any sources to show this? was it called Panticceri and Ponticceri at all before the French arrived?

Sri Aurobindo Ashram?

There is little reference to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in this article. From 1910 onwards, when the yogi / philosopher Aurobindo Ghose arrived in Pondicherry, his Ashram has had a substantial influence, including changing the very 'feel' of the town, putting Pondicherry on the world map, and preserving the architectual heritage in the white town. Something more needs to be written about this...

Sri Aurobindo Ashram is outside Pondicherry (city or union territory) in Tamil Nadu state.

Are you referring to Auroville? As far as I know, since I reside there, the Sri Aurobindo Ashram is in the centre of "white-town" Pondicherry.Auro.ghosh 15:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Now Puducherry is official

Finally the law renaming the UT passed and now the official name is Puducherry. I think it is normal to change also here the name the same as for Mumbai and Chennai. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 18:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding. Mumbai and Chennai were moved on the grounds that English usage, including that of the inhabitants, had, in time, adopted the new name. I'm not convinced this is accurate for Madras; but it is at least plausible. Give it time to catch on. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, the name of the Union Territory is Puducherry, but its main enclave is still officially - Pondicherry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.134.182 (talk) 16:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Spelling Mistake

I've copy edited the first paragraph for greater clarity; however, I feel that the story about the "u" being mistaken for a "n" seems dubious, and not appropriate to an encylopedia. It needs to be reliably sourced (and not simply linked to a newspaper web site). Until such time as the reference appears, I have removed the sentence. Fowler&fowler 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merger

• Agreed Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 15:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• support merge. Chris 09:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
• Support for a merger.. No separate page for road network is necessary..--Prasad den 15:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Puducherry Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Puducherry workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Puducherry or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 09:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Puducherry (union territory)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I don't understand why the expletive was added after the "Roads" heading, but I cleaned it up by removing the expletive. If there is some reason for profanity on this page, for example, a political reason, it would be interesting to explore B1234 21:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 13:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 15:36, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Unsourced accusations

On several occasions, the articles contains statements such as The elections were rigged etc. I know little about the topic, but I think that accusations, especially accusations with possible political biases, should come with a source. David.Monniaux 13:05, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

About rigging of elections - too common in the history of India!

About possible political biases - if you see one... rewrite it so that its a more neutral point of view. if you can't do so- delete it!

good luck... hydkat 09:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Please do change the second map .its not the truth

is a crucial syllable omitted from the following?

...Ponnuthammbi Pillai, moved the Paris court and won the case in which he was awarded a penalty by a French Magistrate in Pondicherry for walking into the court with footwear.

I would think it was probably withOUT footwear

Texteditor 19:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Spelling Mistake

I've copy edited the first paragraph for greater clarity; however, I feel that the story about the "u" being mistaken for a "n" seems dubious, and not appropriate to an encylopedia. It needs to be reliably sourced (and not simply linked to a newspaper web site). Until such time as the reference appears, I have removed the sentence. Fowler&fowler 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merger

• Agreed Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! ^(Whisper...) 15:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• support merge. Chris 09:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
• Support for a merger.. No separate page for road network is necessary..--Prasad den 15:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Split the page

This article should be about present-day Pondicherry and less about the [History of Pondicherry] for which we can have a seperate entry?

I would prefer the article shortened to give more details about the present-day Pondicherry Union-Territory.

hydkat 09:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. Text from the History section has been transferred to History of Puducherry.--Victor D ^PARLE 21:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Now Puducherry is official

Finally the law renaming the UT passed and now the official name is Puducherry. I think it is normal to change also here the name the same as for Mumbai and Chennai. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 18:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a misunderstanding. Mumbai and Chennai were moved on the grounds that English usage, including that of the inhabitants, had, in time, adopted the new name. I'm not convinced this is accurate for Madras; but it is at least plausible. Give it time to catch on. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, the name of the Union Territory is Puducherry, but its main enclave is still officially - Pondicherry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.134.182 (talk) 16:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:INDIA Banner/Puducherry Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Puducherry workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Puducherry or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag ^TALK2ME 09:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Map

Where are the districts? Someone must have access to a decent map they can post 63.26.116.103 (talk) 07:22, 27 November 2008 (UTC)eric

Red links

This article has way too many redlinks for a B class article - they should either be removed or de-linked. – ukexpat (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Sri Aurobindo Ashram?

There is little reference to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram in this article. From 1910 onwards, when the yogi / philosopher Aurobindo Ghose arrived in Pondicherry, his Ashram has had a substantial influence, including changing the very 'feel' of the town, putting Pondicherry on the world map, and preserving the architectual heritage in the white town. Something more needs to be written about this...

Sri Aurobindo Ashram is outside Pondicherry (city or union territory) in Tamil Nadu state.

Are you referring to Auroville? As far as I know, since I reside there, the Sri Aurobindo Ashram is in the centre of "white-town" Pondicherry.Auro.ghosh 15:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Sri Aurobindo Asram actually situated in Tamil Nadu, though it closer to Pondicherry, many people unaware of this.... --Jai Kumara Yesappa (talk) 23:29, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

No citations for the History Section?

Pretty much the whole "History" section has no citations at all. I could not find any supporting research from a quick Google search either. Can the original author add cites? Chromic (talk) 04:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I see one citation was added for the History section (Thanks to Jai Kumara Yesappa), but the rest of the section is still unreferenced. Especially the first paragraph has statements like "various references", or "more than one writer", these don't really count as cites. See WP:Verify and WP:Cite for what constitutes a good reference. Chromic (talk) 06:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Not done. No consensus or evidence to support guideline to change. DMacks (talk) 00:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Puducherry → Pondicherry — As the article says, this is "still popularly known" as Pondicherry, the name it has borne in English since the city was founded; we don't do WP:Official names. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose As Septentrionalis knows only too well, Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source. The territory is located in India, and so we take what is the most common use in Indian English. To justify this move the proposer needs to provide evidence that Pondicherry is the most common use in Indian English for the territory, which so far he has failed to do. Note that we are only talking about the territory. The capital city is still named Pondicherry. Skinsmoke (talk) 01:47, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
  • But neither is there any proof that Indian usage has followed the ethnic position involved in the name change; it was moved to the present title the moment the official decree was passed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
    • Doesn't matter. You're the one proposing a change, so justify that change. Skinsmoke (talk) 06:59, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support Pondicherry is more commonly used in English. --RegentsPark (talk) 01:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment As national varieties of English come into play, it really isn't relevant what it is called in English. We need to know what it is called in Indian English. If you can demonstrate that it is more commonly called Pondicherry in Indian English, then I will be happy to go ahead with the move. But nobody has even made an attempt to demonstrate that. Incidentally, Google search result numbers aren't going to be much help, as we need to differentiate between the City of Pondicherry and the State (or Territory) of Puducherry. Skinsmoke (talk) 06:57, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
• What are other current reference works using? What are academic papers and media outlets using? Knepflerle (talk) 11:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment I've tried to go through the various search results to pick out examples not involving the Government of Puducherry or Government of India. Both terms appear, often hopelessly intermixed. Despite the fact that the city's name has not been changed, the city itself is often referred to as Puducherry; similarly the territory gets called Pondicherry. The following are examples that don't get confused:
  • Oscar-winning director Ang Lee returned a happy man from his second scouting trip to Puducherry on Friday and Saturday, satisfied with the locations he had seen in and around the former French colony. About 30 per cent of the movie, based on Yann Martel’s Booker-winning novel, will be filmed in the Union territory, about 150km from Chennai. from The Telegraph
  • The Territory of Puducherry was merged with the Indian Union on 1st November 1954 in terms of the defacto agreement signed between Government of India and Government of France on 21st October 1954, subsequently the dejure transfer of Puducherry took place on 16th August 1962. from http://www.indianbank.in/slbc/SLBC_About_Puducherry.pdf Indian Bank]
  • Vaithilingam later said that Paes had expressed his intention to set up the centre in Puducherry to prepare the youth on various sports activities on global standard. from http://sports.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/28/paes-to-set-up-sports-centre-in-puducherry.htm Rediff Sports]
  • As part of the drive to promote tourism, the government of Puducherry has a come up with the decision to construct the 101 metres tall tower, worth Rs 25-crore replica at Giriyampetta in Yanam. from http://news.oneindia.in/2010/01/12/replica-of-eiffel-tower-to-come-up-in-yanam.html Oneindia]
  • State owned telco BSNL has launched IPTV and Nova NetPC for broadband users in Puducherry on Tuesday from MediaNama
  • Friends Real Estates comes with 18 years of proven experience in dealing with properties and have successfully executed projects across Puducherry, Cuddalore, Chidambaram, Mayiladuthurai, Karaikal and Chennai. from Friends Real Estates
  • Puducherry is an Union Territory of Southern India covering an area of 480 sq km. The population of the territory as per 2001 census stood at 9.74 lakh. from Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy
  • Pondicherry Multipurpose Social Service Society (PMSSS) in partnership with NASSCOM Foundation and Accenture has recently launched a BPO training centrefor the under-served and under-privileged youth for the first time in Puducherry. from Cyber Media India Online
  • The Ousteri Lake is the most important fresh-water lake of Puducherry region. It is also one of the most important wetlands of Asia. The lake is situated near Oussudu village and is part of both Tamil Nadu and Puducherry. from Indian Academy of Sciences
  • S. Balaji of 12th B2 emerged out as Second in Tamilnadu and Puducherry in AIEEE model examination conducted by the Hindu Education Plus in collaboration with AIMS Education. He was awarded with a trophy and a cash prize of Rs.2500 by the Hindu. from Petit Seminaire Higher Secondary School
  • Puducherry is now part of a major innovation at the ongoing World Expo 2010 in Shanghai. from The Hindu
  • Airtel and MphasiS today jointly announced the inauguration of a new BPO facility in Puducherry. MphasiS will provide contact centre services exclusively to Bharti Airtel. This is the fourth MphasiS BPO facility that caters exclusively to Bharti Airtel, the other three being Ahmedabad, Bangalore and Noida. from Mphasis
  • As a result of its colonial past, there is a strong influence of French culture on Puducherry. This is evident through the architecture of the town. Puducherry is famous for The Sri Aurobindo Ashram. Sri Aurobindo was one of the most renowned Indian sages who decided to establish his Ashram in Puducherry because of its peaceful and harmonious environment. from Hotel Atithi
  • The old French colony has retrieved its indian character, but the scent of the French influence in "Puducherry" as we call now, can be found again in the red kepis of the police officers, French spelling on signboards and traffic signs and some buildings and old stones . from http://www.gingeefort.com/Puducherry.asp Gingee Fort
  • Chief Ministers of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Puducherry among others are expected to attend the meeting. from Business Standard
  • Accusing the UPA Government of ignoring the poor and pampering the rich, JD(U) General Secretary Arun Kumar on Sunday said the NDA's fight against price rise would continue till the goal was achieved. "The Congress led UPA Government at the Centre is ignoring the poor and the havenots but on the other hand is keen about pampering the rich and affluent," he told reporters in Puducherry after addressing an executive committee meeting of the local unit. from Hindustan Times
  • Police have registered a case against him. Since he had also committed a similar offence at Puducherry, he was arrested in Tirunelveli and handed over to the Puducherry police, which formally arrested him for his provocative address in the Union Territory. from News Today
  • Police said R Balaji, a second year student of Bachelor of Arts, was admitted to a hospital in neighbouring Puducherry, died today after battling for life for the last six days. He was suspended by the college authorites following complaints from four girls that he teased them. from MyNews
  • They said Sonia Gandhi would visit Puducherry this month and also inaugurate a housing project for tsunami affected fishermen families at Kalapet near here. from press Trust of India
  • Union minister of state for planning, parliamentary affairs and culture and chief minister V Vaithilingam had repeatedly assured on several occasions that the government will take all necessary steps to get the nod from the competent authority and will commence admissions to the college from the ensuing academic year. There are six private medical colleges besides an autonomous institution Jawaharlal Institute of Postgraduate Medical Education and Research (JIPMER) in the Union territory of Puducherry offering over 1,000 MBBS seats every year. from The Times of India
  • the French reliquished Puducherry in 1954—140 years after claiming it from the British from Lonely Planet: South India by Sarina Singh
  • This breezy inside-outside restaurant at Old harbour Hotel has the most intriguing menu in Kochi; the chef hails from Puducherry and clearly has a profound love of experimenting with local traditions, gearing them up for a fine dining experience by giving them an international spin. from Frommer's India by Pippa de Bruyn
  • Currently while Puducherry and the National Capital Territory of Delhi have legislatures and council of ministers, the others, namely Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Chandigarh, Dadra and Nagar Haveli, Daman and Diu and Lakshadweep, are administered directly by the Central Government. from Indian States at a Glance 2008–09 by Bhandari Laveesh
  • The French managed to acquire from the Nawab of Carnatic and from the ruler of Jinji several villages in and around Puducherry like Ariankuppam, Olugarai, Murungapakkam, Olandi, Pakkamudayanpattu, Karuvadikuppam, Kottakuppam and Kalapet. from Indian Ocean and Cultural Interaction AD 1400–1800 by Kuzhippalli Skaria Mathew
  • The Department of Stationery and printing is the nodal facilitator to meet the printing needs of the departments under the auspices of the Puducherry Administration including the Government companies, Corporations and local bodies. from Compendium of E-government Initiatives in india by Piyush Gupta and R K Blagga
  • The CMB should comprise a chairman and two members; two representatives of the Central Government and one representative each from Kerala, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Puducherry, besides a secretary. from Indian Affairs Annual 2006 by Mahendra Gaur
  • Poothurai is situated on the border of the Union Territory of Puducherry. from Communities, Panchayats and Governance at Grassroots by Ganapathy Palanithurai and Varadarajan Ragupathy
• Skinsmoke (talk) 13:52, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Comment Let's see how this googlefight goes:

Puducherry: 5.64 Mghits \\7.12 kgnews (2006-2010) \\ 7.0 kgnewsarchive \\1860 gbooks (2006-2010) \\3070 gbooks \\ 1340 gscholar (2006-2010) \\ 1730 gscholar \\ 42 kgimages

Pondicherry: 31 Mghits \\ 5.07 kgnews (2006-2010) \\ 11.7 kgnewsarchive \\ 18100 gbooks (2006-2010) \\ 196000 gbooks \\ 8990 gscholar (2006-2010) \\ 27000 \\ 548 kgimages

Filtered for English and/or India:

Puducherry: 3.85 Mghits \\ 6.7 kgnews (2006-2010) \\ 6.7 kgnewsarchive \\ gbooks 1620 (2006-2010) \\ 2820 gbooks

Pondicherry: 19 Mghits \\ 4.66 kgnews (2006-2010) \\ 11.5 kgnewsarchive \\ 17500 gbooks (2006-2010) \\ 188000 gbooks
^walk victor falk ^talk 04:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• Terribly sorry. Completely missed that this about the state and not the city. ^walk victor falk ^talk 15:33, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

• • • It's OK mate, we all do it occasionally! Nice of you to acknowledge the fact, especially as I reacted a wee bit harshly! Sorry about that, there was no need for it! Skinsmoke (talk) 07:19, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
• Comment I'm sorry Special:Contributions/Victor_falk but your figures have no relevance whatever to this discussion. Did you even read the comments above? The city is still called Pondicherry, so of course it will show up in any search for that name. That does not mean that the territory is still referred to as Pondicherry, which is what we are discussing. As I stated above, a simple Google search will show nothing relevant, because it takes no account of the distinction between the territory and the city. Skinsmoke (talk) 00:36, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose where there is an official name and it is being used in English, even if interchangeably, I favour that it be used, and not some colonial hang up on a name that used to be. Sure there is a migration of use, however, it isn't wrong to be correct and to lead, not hang onto an antiquity, especially where we are leading straight to the article. In short there is neither clarification nor benefit in the change. billinghurst sDrewth 13:16, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Official Languages

Is Tamil and French the only official languages of Pondicherry? I dont think they speak tamil or french in Mahé or Yamen. Also, the Malayalam language page says Malayalam is an official language of pondicherry. Perhaps someone can sort out this inconsistency. -- thunderboltz^{a.k.a.Deepu_Joseph |TALK} 14:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Tamil and French are only official language of Pondicherry. Malayalam and Telugu are administrative languages of Mahe and Yanam region respectively. Its is like Hindi and English are official language of India, but regional languages are respective states administrative languages.... Got it clear.--99.254.242.12 (talk) 04:31, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Interwikis

Is there a correct interwikis in this article? For example, not exist article in russian Пондишери, but exist Пудучерри... --Treisijs (talk) 12:57, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I would be very careful "Pondicherry is a city, an urban agglomeration and a municipality in Pondicherry district in the Indian union territory of Puducherry." Therefore there are five entities that may or may not share the same name. It will be hard work to disentangle the interwikis if they are wrong, since all the articles in all the languages will need to be checked. Rich Farmbrough, 14:12, 17 March 2011 (UTC).

Needs a simple colonial section, and (esp) the dates of French control in the intro.

I googled this page to get the dates the French left, but this is hidden away. I like the fact that I can google a famous figure and see the main dates in the two lines shown so I don't have to click the links.

People will come to this page if they want to find out about Pondicherry's role in colonial India, and these students should be catered for. It would be like an 'England' page skipping over Willliam the Conqueror but saying in section 3 that we do have quite a few French words in the English language due to 1066.

Or like a page about North America starting with the Pilgrim Fathers and then jumping straight to the Declaration of Independence. Though in fairness, many of them do.

(Ganpati23 (talk) 01:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC))

Moving

I'm not sure why there's so much confusion about Pondicherry or Puducherry. The Indian Govt. renamed the place in 2006 to Puducherry and the offical name of the local govt is Puducherry. It doesn't matter what everyone else calls it. The official name is always what the govt calls it. So it should be called Puducherry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mushroom9 (talk • contribs) 16:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

No, we go with the WP:COMMONNAME. It doesn't matter what the govt. calls it. Germany is officially Bundesrepublik Deutschland, but we just call it Germany. Similarly, we would not move India and China if they decided they wanted to be called Bharat and Zhongguo unless common usage followed those decisions. Cf. Orissa, Burma, Tibet, and Ganges. — kwami (talk) 19:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Colonial names are inherently insulting.  Buaidh  21:44, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps kwami would like to explain why he moved this article, without discussion, just a year after the move discussion decided not to. That is something else we "don't do on Wikipedia". Skinsmoke (talk) 20:09, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move January 2013

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. This is a clear-cut WP:ENGVAR issue with particularly strong national ties, and there appears to be no argument that "Puducherry" has become far and away more common in Indian English sources. Appeals to "Pondicherry" as the common name without accounting for the national ties were given less consideration. Some editors advocated "Pondicherry" per WP:COMMONALITY; however, it appears that "Puducherry" has become increasingly common in foreign sources as well, and that trend is likely to continue. Cúchullain ^t/c 17:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

---

---

Pondicherry → Puducherry – It is requested to move protect the article after moving or not moving to requested title I can see a 2010 long move request discussion which ended with "no consensus". That requested move was done some time later but I could not find any discussion. The current article title is "Pondicherry", in the edit mode, I saw this text: {{DISPLAYTITLE:Puducherry}}. Anyway,
Official site, several reliable newspapers are also using the requested name. So, I think we should stop saying the old point "Common name" and move the article now! Tito Dutta (talk) 20:17, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support Kwamikagami showed poor judgment in unilaterally moving this article back to Pondicherry when a previous RM went against that. The renaming of cities in India hasn't always produced common names in English (Bengaluru?), but Puducherry is a form I hear pretty consistently these days, as with Kolkata and Mumbai. --BDD (talk) 21:02, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Whilst Kolkata and Mumbai have now moved into the mainstream English language, it's insufficient to use these examples to justify a move away from Pondicherry – few people have heard of the latter appelation. -- Ohconfucius ^{ping / poke} 02:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Greetings, please clarify what do you mean by "mainstream English"? Please click here to see few best news medias have been using the requested name. Unless it is denied that they use "mainstream English", the requested title is in mainstream English. --Tito Dutta (talk) 12:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per Ohconfucius. Paris1127 (talk) 02:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment Google search for Pondicherry: 30,900,000 hits, Puducherry: 8,760,000. In addition, the government tourism website uses Puducherry in its name, but its logo says "Peaceful Pondicherry". From the New York Times: "Today, Puducherry, as it is officially known but rarely called"; BBC: "and Pondicherry (also known as Puducherry)", Deccan Chronicle and Hindustan Times use both, while The Hindu uses Puducherry. Conclusion: both are used, but in non-Indian English media it seems that Pondicherry is preferred. Paris1127 (talk) 17:51, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I request not to count Google search results in this discussion. And in the RFC below it has been attempted to show that the requested title is also used in world media like New York Times etc. --Tito Dutta (talk) 09:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose. Pondicherry is still the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support Firstly, what the territory is known as outside India is of no relevance to this discussion. As the article in on a subject within India, Wikipedia guidelines are that Indian English is the appropriate form of the language for the article. We need to then examine useage in Indian English. Unfortunately, even advanced Google search figures are not much use, as Pondicherry is also the name of the city, which has not changed its name. Only the territory's name was changed to Puducherry. However, examining the first few individual hits of an Advanced Google search for Puducherry excluding Wikipedia, restricted to websites in English in India during the last year suggests that the media in India customarily uses Puducherry, including:
  • The Hindu
  • NDTV
  • India Today
  • IBN Live
  • India Times
  • Times of India
  • DNA
  • The Indian Express
  • Firstpost India
  • ZeeNews
• A similar search for Pondicherry excluding Wikipedia shows no hits from authoritative websites, with the exception of one hit from The Economic Times, which states "Almost anyone who has been to The Union Territory of Pondicherry (now called Puducherry)". It looks pretty clear, that useage in Indian English is pretty conclusively for Puducherry when referring to the territory. Skinsmoke (talk) 18:48, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually what it is called outside of India does matter very much, for better or worse, according to WP policy. N-HH talk/edits 23:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per COMMONNAME. — kwami (talk) 20:22, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment That is the whole point. The common name in Indian English is Puducherry. WP:National varieties of English applies very clearly in this case. Skinsmoke (talk) 22:53, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Does it? See WP:COMMONALITY: "Universally used terms are often preferable to less widely distributed terms, especially in article titles." This has been the consensus for articles like Ganges. — kwami (talk) 03:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami, sorry but you really should first somewhere explain why you moved counter an RM, for which citing Ganges does not remove the trout In ictu oculi (talk) 06:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

"Ganga" is translated as "Ganges" (though it is a proper name), not applicable for Bengaluru or Puducherry. --Tito Dutta (talk) 06:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

There is an RFC below to discuss if it really covered by WP:COMMONNAME. --Tito Dutta (talk) 21:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support I am in favour of using Indian English but the principal of not moving articles counter RM results is more important. There have been several other RMs starting from the wrong end (the post-undiscussed move end) and this isn't the way to do it. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. As with Orissa, I'm not sure it's a question of "Indian English" or ENGVAR, as if we were talking about spelling or generic terminology where there are "right" or "wrong" options. It's proper/place name where even in Indian sources, usage varies. However, going back – as we should – to COMMONNAME, I would argue that Puducherry is quite possibly the better title on that basis anyway. I won't explicitly support a move as I haven't looked into it deeply enough, but it gets more Google News hits and it may well have hit Kolkata/Mumbai levels of global preference. N-HH talk/edits 15:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per Paris1127. Proponents of the move have not demonstrated that "Puducherry" is the dominant form outside of Indian media outlets, and "Pondicherry" remains the global norm and recognizable, common name. Shrigley (talk) 22:34, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Switched to support per Kauffner's sensible comment below. --regentspark (comment) 23:36, 11 January 2013 (UTC) per WP:COMMONNAME. While I do see the use of Puducherry increasing in non-Indian sources, I don't think we're at the tipping point as yet. --regentspark (comment) 16:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC) While this is anecdotal and therefore please ignore it, I have yet to hear even vacationing Indians say "we're going to Puducherry for Christmas"!--regentspark (comment) 16:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support. On Highbeam for the last two years, I found 662 examples of "Pondicherry", 797 for Puducherry. Update: If this RM is approved, Pondicherry (city) should be moved to Pondicherry. Kauffner (talk) 01:59, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment None of those opposing this move on the grounds that "Pondicherry" is the global norm for the territory (the city is still named "Pondicherry"), have yet demonstrated any evidence to back their claim. There have been several assertions that "Pondicherry" is still the norm, but not one shred of evidence has been given. Skinsmoke (talk) 18:34, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
• Comment I would agree with Kauffner on the city. We would, of course, need to amend the hatnotes on the articles for the union territory, district and city. Skinsmoke (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support It has been convincingly demonstrated that tertiary sources like Britannica, majority of journalistic and scholarly sources have shifted to Puducherry. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 17:40, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

On WP:COMMONNAME questions

In this article and also in Talk:Bangalore WP:COMMONNAME is being quoted to oppose the move. But, the explanation and examples in that page does not completely match here. For example there it is written 1) we use Confucius (not Kong Qiu, Kong Fuzi, or K'ung Fu-tzu), we use Guinea pig (not Cavia porcellus) 2)as determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources, but here the requested titles are also accepted and used
Now the question is if the alternative name (which is also the official name) is also accepted and regularly used by "reliable English language sources" (unlike Kong Qiu or Cavia porcellus), then what? Should we move ahead with time or wait? --Tito Dutta (talk) 13:11, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

• Comment – WP:COMMONNAME still applies in this case. You just have to prove that the name you are suggesting is the more popular one or that most English sources have shifted from one to the other. In the move requests above only Indian news agencies and websites were referred. If you are arguing for Puducherry, it might make sense to see what news agencies world over like NYTimes, BBC, Sydney Morining Herald, other tertiary sources like Britannica and tools from google like google trends have to say about this.I have not separated the city and UT data. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 16:01, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

* I am confused. your examples above shows the use of "Puducherry"! Including Britannica Encyclopedia is using the name. More or less New York Times too!--Tito Dutta (talk) 09:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I was not trying to establish that either Pondicherry or Puducherry were more prevalent in English language sources. My point was that non–Indian sources should also have been included in the evaluation. It might also make sense to compare dates of articles in journalistic sources. For instance, do NYT articles use Pondicherry before 2009 and Puducherry after it? If they do, this might be an argument to change from one to the other. It might also help to take a look at Talk:Myanmar/Archive 11#Reasons for the move. It was a long and controversial discussion which was closed and reopened multiple times. You'll notice how sources which use Myannmar and sources which use Burma have been enlisted separately. If you think both Pondicherry and Puducherry are equally prevalent in sources, it might make sense to enumerate sources on each side here as well. On a side note, that discussion does not include Indian English language sources. I tried to rectify it through my comment there, but it had little effect. Correct Knowledge^«৳alk» 10:16, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Ya, everyone is saying the same old thing "COMMONNAME"! --Tito Dutta (talk) 21:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Read the very next section, MOS:COMMONALITY: "Universally used terms are often preferable to less widely distributed terms, especially in article titles." — kwami (talk) 03:49, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

That has been point here, wrong interpretation of WP:COMMONNAME. Just, coloring the next sentence to highlight the point of this RFC, don't think, I am writing to you in bold face: The examples of WP:COMMONNAME page is very much different from these RMs, they should add such one example (Bengaluru, Puducherry) there. And examples above shows NYT, Britannica etc also using "Puducherry"! --Tito Dutta (talk) 06:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Skinsmoke has attempted to prove that "useage in Indian English is pretty conclusively for Puducherry", but that quite naturally going to be the case because of sample bias. Also, it is not what needs to be proven. I'm still open to being persuaded that we should adopt that 'new' name if indeed it is the universally most common name, but that has yet to be demonstrated. -- Ohconfucius ^{ping / poke} 04:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Bollocks! A similar exercise for Bangalore shows emphatically that Bengaluru is not the common name in Indian English. So why doesn't your alleged sample bias work in that case? Skinsmoke (talk) 11:41, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Question - much as Talk:Orissa, is it confirmed that Indian English is covered by WP:ENGVAR? Someone please link. Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 06:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Of course Indian English is covered by ENGVAR. Why wouldn't it be? It's a variety of English. Bazonka (talk) 10:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

See also, use of Indian English in Wikipedia articles! --Tito Dutta (talk) 10:56, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

If you read WP:ENGVAR, it specifically mentions Indian English, when it states:

An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation. For example:

• Great Fire of London (British English)
• American Civil War (American English)
• Institutions of the European Union (British or Irish English)
• Australian Defence Force (Australian English)
• Vancouver, B.C. (Canadian English)
• Usain Bolt (Jamaican Standard English)
• Taj Mahal (Indian English)

Skinsmoke (talk) 11:33, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for answer, sorry for stupid question, and thanks Tito Dutta for what links here Indian English template. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:16, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pondicherry (city)

This discussion has been copied to Talk:Pondicherry (city). Please add any further comments there. Skinsmoke (talk) 15:51, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Note: I moved Pondicherry (city) to Pondicherry since disambiguation is no longer necessary. Feel free to let me know if this was not a good idea. --regentspark (comment) 18:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about that. The fact that the territory was formerly located there suggests readers who type in or click on "Pondicherry" are looking for that article. The city's name look like it's been changed as well.[1]Cúchullain ^t/c 19:14, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Since this city is the most prominent area in the union territory and the city article has links of the district and the union territory, the reader won't get lost. As far as I know, the city, the district and the union territory all are now known as Puducherry. However, it may take some more time for Wikipedia editors to accept that.--GDibyendu (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I got the impression from the RM above that the city was still known as Pondicherry? An alternative is to make Pondicherry a disambiguation page and keep the city article at Pondicherry (city). I'm personally unsure as to whether the city or the UT is the primary topic (except that most Chennaites, the ones I know anyway, don't really differentiate and refer to the place as Pondy).

I think we need clarification on this. If the city is still widely known as Pondicherry, but the territory is known as Puducherry, the city should (presumably) be at Pondicherry. However, if the city has also become known as Puducherry, then we need some real evidence as to which article readers are looking for when they type in "Pondicherry" - and possibly an RM for the city. The fact that this article was formerly located at that title suggests the territory may the better target for the redirect.Cúchullain ^t/c 21:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

There is much more confusion over the city, than there is over the territory. As far as I could see, last time I looked, the city change had not been finally approved (a bit like Bangalore). There are consequently a considerable number of sources, even in India, that still refer to the city as Pondicherry. However, there are also many sources that now refer to all three (the territory, district and city) as Puducherry. A case could be made out that the common use of the city is now Puducherry, but it isn't anything like as clear as the case for the territory. I've added a hatnote (not a very good one) to the city article in the meantime. If anyone can improve on it, please do. Skinsmoke (talk) 11:49, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Incidentally, in the two moves, the Talk page for the city has become detached from the article page, and the territory Talk page substituted. The link needs restoring urgently. Skinsmoke (talk) 11:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

I was going to undo the move while we discuss this but cuc beat me to it. All fixed for now. --regentspark (comment) 13:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, guess I got to it first. It probably bears further discussion as to what should be located, or redirected, where. I've also created a dab page at Pondicherry (disambiguation); honestly, that might should be at Pondicherry, at least until we figure out what readers are typically looking for when typing in "Pondicherry".--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Right now, Pondicherry is redirecting to Puducherry (this article page), but probably it would be better to redirect it to the city page. Most often, when people talk about Pondicherry, they would usually mean the city. The UT consists of 3 other districts, Mahe is surrounded by Kerala, Yanam is surrounded by Andhra Pradesh. The other two, Pondicherry city and Karaikal are surrounded by Tamil Nadu. What I mean to say is this: if I say I am going travel to Pondicherry, then I would mean the city or at most Karaikal too, but not the other two places, Yanam and Mahe, as they are far away from the Pondicherry city. If I am planning to go to Yanam, then most likely I would use the name Yanam rather than referring to Pondicherry.--GDibyendu (talk) 06:27, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I would leave things as they are for the time being. Firstly, the incoming links at both the territory and city pages need checking. Many are simply linking to the wrong article. There are hundreds of incoming links, and I have started to go through those linking to the territory. I've checked about 600 so far.

Secondly, we need to avoid the mess that occurred when, following the territory move, the city article was moved to Pondicherry. This resulted in the city talkpage becoming detached (and vanishing into the great white void), and the territory talk page attaching itself to the city article, and had to be undone by Cúchullain.

It is also worth remembering that the territory page was at Pondicherry because it had been deemed to be the primary meaning. Unless things have changed, the primary meaning would still be the redirect to the territory. There may well be an argument that the city is now the primary meaning, but even in your suggestion you acknowledge that the primary meaning of Pondicherry is unclear: it could possibly even be Pondicherry district.

In any case, let's get the cleanup from the territory move sorted first, and check the incoming links to the city article, and then maybe look at this in a couple of months time when things have settled down. Skinsmoke (talk) 12:13, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Undiscussed move

I reverted the undiscussed move of this article to Puducherry (Union Territory). Considering how confused our articles on the various entities known as "Puducherry"/"Pondicherry" are already, that would really need to be discussed first.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:13, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Cúchullain has outlined the situation well in his closing comments on the move request in January 2013. There doesn't seem to be any change or new significant evidence to the contrary. Chamal ^T•C 04:19, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

---

Puducherry → Pondicherry (Union Territory) – The previous discussion is several years old, the more common in English both in India and especially elsewhere is Pondicherry, and even the government in official publications uses Pondicherry for the territory. See for example:Usage here by Panchayat Informatics Division in the National Panchayat Directory; and Only Kerala and Pondicherry have sex ratio in favor of females for all the areas, Manipur has preponderance of females in urban areas (1009). from [Census 2011: Gender Composition]. Bejnar (talk) 20:49, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:NOTAGAIN. Three months ago is not "several years old". Timrollpickering (talk) 21:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose likewise per WP:NOTAGAIN. Also, why wasn't the {Indian English} template added to Talk here also as discussed on the other RM? done added In ictu oculi (talk) 00:40, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
• Support per use common name. --regentspark (comment) 01:18, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:ENGVAR, WP:NATURAL, and lack of any changes since the previous discussion. --BDD (talk) 20:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Thoughts for additions

The article could do with a concise discussion about how the territory was formed, and the basis of the handover from the French government, dates, reference to any treaty. These components seem relevant to understanding the basis of the existing structure, especially related to the discontiguous nature of the state and why they were not incorporated to their surrounding states, and how they may have a difference in nature due to their colonial nature. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:39, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

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New map

I took the liberty of replacing the top map by another one I found in Wikipedia Commons. Much better map. I also simplified the introductory paragraph. Most of the info I deleted is found in the 2nd paragraph. I think it make for easier reading. --Lubiesque (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I find the colored map of India is not right one. India occupied J&K has a different color comparing other states. As J&K is a democratic part of india and india holds public election for governance, its part of India's constitution. The map needs to be replaced immediately making the color of indian states same including J&K -- talk —Preceding undated comment added 05:56, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Considerations for rework

Rework of intro for added clarity

Puducherry, (/ˌpɒndɪˈtʃɛri/; literally New Town in Tamil) and formerly known as Pondicherry (Pāṇṭiccēri) is a union territory of India. It was formed out of four exclaves of former French India, namely Pondicherry, Karaikal, Yanam and Mahe. The union territory (UT) was named after the largest district Pondicherry, and changed its official name to Puducherry (Putuccēri) on 20 September 2006.

Puducherry lies in the southern part of the Indian Peninsula. The areas of Puducherry and Karaikal are bound by the state of Tamil Nadu, while Yanam is enclosed by the state of Andhra Pradesh and Mayyazhi (Malayalam for Mahe) by Kerala. As of 2005, Puducherry was the 29th most populous and the third most densely populated state/UT in India. It has a GDP of ₹0.21 lakh crore (US$2.5 billion) and ranks 27th in India.

Two articles that are similar

History of Puducherry and French India — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bnitin (talk • contribs) 14:06, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

References

Spellin gmistake?

If this is in face the case, concerning the name PoNdicherry:

At some point, the hand-written 'u' was mistaken for an 'n', and the misspelling stuck.

Then how does this explain, necessarily the following:

The territory is called புதுச்சேரி (Putuccēri) or பாண்டிச்சேரி (Pāṇṭiccēri) in Tamil, పుదుచ్చేరి (Puduccēri) in Telugu, and പോത്തുച്ചേരി (Pōttuccēri) or പോണ്ടിച്ചേരി (Pōṇṭiccēri) in Malayalam

A spelling mistake seems unlikely? Are there any sources to show this? was it called Panticceri and Ponticceri at all before the French arrived?

No spelling mistake! The n comes from the standard French orthography (on) of the nasalised o vowel, it has never been pronounced as a consonnant in French. The exact value of the vocalic phonem varies depending on Indian languages between u, ā, ō, with also a clear nazalisation also in these languages.

As well Indian languages vary between d and t phonems.

And it was also correct when it used a single r (where English misspelled the name Pondichéry, transforming -chéry into -cherry like the fruit, even if it was OK in English to remove the distinctive French acute accent to get more precise pronunciation of the e, because English does not make a clear distinction like French between é, è)

Note that French does not need an accent on e if it precedes a geminated consonnant, but English incorrectly geminates the r. (Today, French rarely distringuish phonetically the geminated consonnants from non geminated ones, but the orthographic tradition of not writing any accent before a geminated consonnant persists and this was not a reason to write -chéry as cherry which would be incorrectly pronouced like if it was chèry...)

So the French orthography was not (and is still not) wrong: it's a good compromize between various transliterations of multiple Indian languages and their local dialects (note that the territory is spread on very distant locations with different Indian linguistic backgrounds).

The official change of name from Pondichéry to Puducherry however comes from the transliteration of modern Tamil, the main official language: புதுச்சேரி -> Putuccēri. But the double r adopted comes from the old English misspelling ! A concession was made to Telugu (secondary language) for keeping the d still used in French (official language). The nasalisation from Malayalam was also ignored, but the d kept in English is still correct for the **dental** t of both Malayalam and Tamil. Tamil, the first official language is not clear at all about the traditional vocalic value or nasalisation of the first syllable. The choice of Tamil to guide the name comes from the fact that the most important part of the territory is in a Tamil-speaking region. verdy_p (talk) 17:09, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Citations for use of French name and French's status

I found the following Government of India documents, which have a preface in Tamil, French and English.

• http://gstcouncil.gov.in/sites/default/files/sgst-notification/PUD-(R)-21.pdf
• https://gst.py.gov.in/ctd/gst/THE-PUDUCHERRY-GOODS-AND-SERVICES-TAX-(AMENDMENT)-ACT-2018.pdf
• https://labour.py.gov.in/sites/default/file/2017/The%20Puducherry%20Loading%20and%20Unloading%20(Regulation%20of%20Employment%20and%20Welfare)%20Act,%202017.pdf
• https://lad.py.gov.in/images/pdf/GO/Profession%20Tax%20for%20panchayat%20Act%20No.%204.pdf

I have also found this Government of India portal stating that French is preserved as an official language: https://web.archive.org/web/20150402195506/http://ecourts.gov.in/pondicherry/historyv✘ anonymousвهii 15:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

✘ anonymousвهii 20:05, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Repeated addition of French to infobox/lead

Anonymousboii, I have reverted your edits as you did not address any of the concerns I raised in my earlier edit summary and in the discussion on my talk page. Instead, you seem to have added my observation to the article when doing so would be WP:OR. —Gazoth (talk) 12:58, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Which is why I put it in a ref tag. The Gazette isn't a third-party source, it's from the Government of India (by virtue of UT)/Government of Puducherry, if they weren't official sources, I wouldn't put anything in the article. Although English and Tamil are official, French is also used (making it cultural/additional). According to Part XVII of the constitution, correspondence can be requested in other languages, though states and UTs do this only in their official language. The fact is that French exists in the Gazette, the Pondicherry languages Act hasn't repealed French and established English and Tamil as the sole official languages. I'm not making any of this up, and if the Government is doing this since the 1960s, it sure as hell isn't a mistake.✘ anonymousвهii 13:20, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, as I have told you multiple times now, everything that you've saying is original research. A determination that you made that usage of a language in one page of official documents results in it being an official language is original research. Unless the gazette explicitly states that French is an official language, it is not a source. I can't make this any clearer. —Gazoth (talk) 13:26, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, also you seem to have completely sidestepped my arguments about inclusion of French in infobox/lead over Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam. These languages have been explicitly declared as official language or additional official languages, and including French over them gives undue weight to it. It also violates the spirit, if not the letter of MOS:IS. Reiterating my argument here, the policy became necessary as there were multiple official languages that could qualify for the lead, due to which verifiability and criteria for inclusion became a problem. While the policy was written down as excluding Indic scripts, that doesn't mean that quasi-official non-Indic scripts are acceptable for the lead. —Gazoth (talk) 13:31, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

"While the policy was written down as excluding Indic scripts, that doesn't mean that quasi-official non-Indic scripts are acceptable for the lead" Isn't this also original research? Fine, your first paragraph seems sensible enough, I'll move the names to another section, away from the lead, but how on earth isn't French Cultural? The French in the gazette is just icing on the cake. I think the best solution for the infobox would be Official:English, Tamil, Additional: Malayalam, Telugu, Cultural: French. In the Languages section, I will also add the Pondicherry official languages act citation, and describe the presence of French.✘ anonymousвهii 13:38, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, there is no such thing as a "cultural language". You can't make up designations. My arguments about MOS:IS are obviously not original research as I'm reasoning about policy, not deriving unstated conclusions and adding them to the article. WP:OR only applies to the content that is actually added to the article. —Gazoth (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

If you have a problem with "cultural language", that is a separate issue. Chandernagore and Panjim have their own unique culture based around the Romi Konkani and Indian French languages. It also doesn't violate MOS:IB, unless the MOS specifically states only official languages must be used. Please refrain from false accusations. ✘ anonymousвهii 14:07, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, I didn't express a dislike for the term, I told you that such a term does not exist. You are making it up and you haven't provided any sources for it. It is clearly WP:OR. The convention among all articles on Indian states and territories is to only add official languages are spoken languages can cross into double digits. If you want to add the mention of French, add it to article body with proper references. You have once again failed to address my arguments about inclusion of French names in infobox/lead over Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam. —Gazoth (talk) 14:24, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

I am not giving it any precedence over Malayalam or Telugu, it is a term used on the Chandernagore page. French is spoken by about 5,500 people in the Pondicherry UT. I promise to cite everything to the best of my ability, since I use visually impaired peripherals to use my PC, I need some time. ✘ anonymousвهii 14:32, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, existence of unsourced content on other pages is not a justification for adding them to this page too. You are once again not addressing the issues and concerns that I have previously raised, and this is getting to WP:IDHT territory. —Gazoth (talk) 14:47, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Honestly, if the 2011 Census's "other languages", the Pondicherry Gazette, the former French colonies and French diaspora/French OCIs in Pondicherry isn't enough evidence for French culture in Pondicherry, I don't know what is. I could accuse you of WP:IDHT too, but a pissing contest isn't how consensus should be reached, in my opinion. If you can give me any proof of zero French in Pondicherry, I will revert all my edits.✘ anonymousвهii 14:58, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, as I've repeatedly explained to you, none of those are acceptable sources for terming French as the "cultural language" or "official language" or "additional language" in the article. You have not rebutted any of my arguments, but you keep jumping from one topic to the other. The standard for exclusion of any language from the infobox is not having zero speakers, rather the standard for inclusion is that it has to be an official language in some capacity. —Gazoth (talk) 15:02, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Please read the last paragraph of this official Government of India source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150402195506/http://ecourts.gov.in/pondicherry/history ✘ anonymousвهii 15:06, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, that's the first valid reference that you have provided. This would allow French to to mentioned under languages section. However, it still does not address my arguments about French names in infobox/lead. —Gazoth (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Like I said, I'm visually impaired, so I can't do this rapidly, since I use TTS, Braille Numpads and a friend's help. I know dealing with me is annoying, but I will try to improve the page.✘ anonymousвهii 15:15, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Anonymousboii, it's been three days since we discussed this matter at my talk page and I have given you two days after you asked for more time. I've seen no reply from you. I'm going to remove the French names from the article. —Gazoth (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

@Anonymousboii: You have shown no interest to address the concerns I raised, but seem to content to cling to any flimsy reason to keep your edits. Usage of French in headers of gazettes is not a sufficient reason to add it to the lead/infobox. —Gazoth (talk) 13:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Declutter the talk page

Dear fellow Wikipedians, Can you plaesewipe this page clean of all the discussions prior to 2010..…. Also I think all the sections have valid citations. So please remove the improper citation template... Cheers. ANUPAM DUTTA 12:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anupamdutta73 (talk • contribs)

Deployed User:Lowercase sigmabot III, which will archive any discussions older than a year. --Soumya-8974 (he) ^talk _contribs ^subpages 16:18, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 15 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved first two, not moved city. Necrothesp's support would leave Puducherry redirecting to a qualified title; since most of the topics in the disambiguation page are titled Puducherry, moving the dab there rather than redirecting Puducherry to Pondicherry (disambiguation). -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:35, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

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• Puducherry → Puducherry (union territory)
• Pondicherry (disambiguation) → Puducherry
• Pondicherry → Puducherry (city)

– Both "Puducherry" and its alternative spelling "Pondicherry" could mean either a union territory, a district, a taluk or a city. This means that neither "Puducherry" nor "Pondicherry" has a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Therefore, I am requesting to disambiguate both the union territory and the city, and undisambiguate the dab page à la Jammu and Kashmir. Soumya-8974 (he) ^talk _contribs ^subpages 16:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

• I have tweaked the nomination to propose renaming Pondicherry to Puducherry (city) instead of Pondicherry (city) because:

1. The "Puducherry" article has higher page view than the "Pondicherry" article.[2]
2. Both "Pondicherry" and "Puducherry" are commonly recognisable names, and it is better to bring harmony in names rather than diversifying, except in personal names.
3. "Puducherry" is the official name of the union territory, district, taluk and city.

--Soumya-8974 (he) ^talk _contribs ^subpages 16:38, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Strong Support: not sure why this hasn't been done already, having two different common names in use only serves to cause confusion. Soumya-8974's reasoning also seems perfectly reasonable and well laid out. Prolix 💬 18:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Oppose To my surprise, the official website of the municipality uses "Pondicherry municipality, Puducherry". This suggests that the natural naming disambiguation currently used here has some basis in actual usage. There's no reason why we should seek "harmony" between different article names when there is reason to use them differently. The reasoning is different, but Derry and County Londonderry has been a longstanding distinction reflected across articles. Pondicherry appears to remain overall more common [3]. CMD (talk) 02:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support first one. Oppose others. The city is still commonly known as Pondicherry and is the primary topic for that name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Untitled

1. The map of India used is wrong for the state of Jammu & Kashmir. Can it be deleted? Also, the population is shown as 0,97 million. Is this 970,000? Maybe needs to be more clear.

2. The map of India is a partial. 'Jammu and Kashmir' landscape has been altered. Can you please replace the image with Complete India map image. - Srinibas