Talk:Rødgrød

Criticism of 2005

Material to be discussed and edited:

The dish is accorded iconic status in Denmark, partly from its toungue twisting nature, but also for reasons that are deeply rooted in Danish culture.

Firstly, the immediate visual impression created by the red berries and white cream is a strong reminder of the colours of Dannebrog, the flag of Denmark. Merely serving the dish is perceived by many Danes as a way of expressing national pride. This may date back to the time of German occupation of Denmark during WW2, where non-overt forms of patriotism flourished. It is also in keeping with a strong Danish tendency to integrate patriotic expression in everyday activity and life, as visitors to Denmark will immediately recognise from the flag-pole with hoisted flag in most residential back gardens.

Secondly, the sheer simplicity of the dish resonates strongly with a core Danish value centered on rejection of aggrandisement and advocacy of the simple and the humble. This core value is in part recognised in Jante's Law, and finds expression most famously in some areas of Danish design - see for example Arne Jacobsen or Bang & Olufsen. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:49, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Let me first adddress the notion of having iconic status, and argue for the inclusion of this phrase in this entry.

Iconic status indicates having symbolic value which is widely recognised. A good example would be "motherhood and apple pie" - apple pie achieving iconic status as symbolic of values inherent in US culture. The notion of iconic status has gained currency in modern popular culture (easily verifiable through a Google search), and there are at least 2 examples of its use in Wikipedia. I know of no other phrase that captures the sentiment as precisely as this one. The term "national dish" is misleading in this context, in the same way it would be as a descriptor of apple pie as an american national dish. It does not concisely express the redolent symbolism embodied in the dish. The term "symbolic value" does not express the strength of the symbol.

In this case, the dish has symbolic value as an embodiment of Danish values and culture. This is reflected in use of the phrase "Rødgrød med fløde" as a well understood shorthand for something that is very Danish. Let me quote two examples, which will require a bit of translation.

1. "Forståelse af en anden kultur får man først, når man er i stand til at stille sig uden for sin egen kultur med Dannebrog, rødgrød med fløde og den danske velfærdsmoral". This translates to: "An understanding of another [foreign] culture is only possible once you can step outside your own [Danish] culture including Dannebrog [the flag], rødgrød med fløde and the Danish welfare ethic." This quote is from a school text on the concept of culture, published by the Danish Ministry of Education ( see [1]).

2. "Fra de på den anden side, der er vokset op med "Du gamla, du fria" som nationalsang, er lysten til rødgrød med fløde også blevet større i løbet af 2003.". This is an article from Børsen, Denmark's largest Business daily, commenting on Swedish emigration to Denmark following the building of the øresunds bridge link between the two countries. The translation is: "Of those from the other side [Sweden] who grew up with "Du gamla, du fria" as their national anthem, the desire for rødgrød med fløde grew during 2003". To patronisingly join the dots, some Swedes emigrated to Denmark, started becoming more like Danes, characterised by a growing appetite for rødgrød med fløde (see [2])

Both examples illustrate the use of the dish to symbolise something central about being Danish. Consequently, I would argue that the dish has iconic status in Denmark - which is stronger than just symbolic value. It is also important to note that the root cause of this symbolism is not just the widespread use of the phrase as a tongue twister, although this is a contributing factor. Consequently, I would argue for an entry along the lines of:

The dish is accorded iconic status in Denmark, partly from its use a tongue twister (note: English spelling used), but also for reasons that are deeply rooted in Danish culture

Further comments on the subsequent entry under discussion to follow. --132.185.240.120 Lars Mouritzen 16:24, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Compromise

How about this: The dish is accorded iconic status in Denmark (rather like apple pie in the United States), partly because the red berries and white cream are a strong reminder of the colours of the flag of Denmark. Much of the rest is at least partly speculative (it might be this, and could be that). This gets the point across without overbalancing the article or going against the Wikipedia policy against speculation and original research. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:24, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Rødgrød and Rote Grütze

I merged Rote Grütze (where I had given information on the actual dish and an image of the Schleswig-Holstein family recipe) with Rødgrød med fløde at the present destination Rødgrød where I turned the shibboleth story into a sub chapter of the dish. I feel the dish itself is basically the same in Denmark and Germany; a good deal of variation is already notable in Schleswig-Holstein. --Olaf Simons (talk) 13:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

"Tastes very good!"

Does this line really belong in an encyclopedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1670:FF00:400:90C7:8E66:AFBC:2986 (talk) 21:00, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

It does not, but let's take a vote. Anybody here whole doesn't like it ;-) ? If all are in favor the statement is probably representing objective fact and has to stay. Just joking obviously :-) ... JB. --92.195.104.120 (talk) 03:35, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Right, it's delicious but we don't have to discuss obvious utterances that just don't belong to an encyclopedic article according to WP:NPOV, do we? ;-) Best regards, GeoTrinity (talk) 09:17, 9 June 2018 (UTC)