Talk:Ranghar

Musharaf

Please also consider listing Qaim Khan who was a Chauhan Rajput. His sub-tribe converted to Islam (time of Balban?) This is significant because subsequently they were called Qaimkhanis. General Perwez Musharraf is said to be a qaimkhani.

Actually, he is a Sayyid from Delhi and Panipat. Its in his book, in the Line of Fire.--WALTHAM2 (talk) 19:22, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Origin of the term

In the article, it is said that Ranghar may have emerged from Run (Battle) + Garh but it may also emerge from "Rana + Garh". That would make it synonymous with Garh Ranas or Garh Rajputs. I think there was a community in history that carried that sort of a name. Regards, 122.169.54.123 (talk) 11:45, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Rangars were Yaduvanshi Ahirs

Yaduvanshi Ahirs who were converted as Muslims are known as Rangars or Muslim Rajputs

http://books.google.com/books?id=9DU5AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA181&dq=muslim++rangars&hl=en&ei=Pđ20ITaKjB4P6lwezgvTxAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCoQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=muslim%20%20rangars&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=qCAAAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA2-PA61&dq=ahir+rulers&hl=en&ei=XWkITcfKFsK88gahhqB0&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=ahir&f=false

Cyclopædia of India and of eastern and southern Asia, commercial ..., Volume 2 edited by Edward Balfour--page 85

Vandalism

Someone keeps taking out reference to the Chauhan and Pundir. Generally every source from the People of India series to early gazetteers make mention the Chauhan as being the principal Ranghar clan. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, please stop deleting references to the Chauhan. The changes are being made by unregistered user 174.117.182.104. Perhaps editing can be restricted to registered users.

--WALTHAM2 (talk) 19:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

WALTHAM2 . Right. Truthfulsoldier (talk) 19:34, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Should the former-Ahir Ranghars be mentioned here?

Does the topic of Muslim Ahirs (also called Ranghar) belong in this article, or is there little similarity besides name and religion? The article Aheer is in very poor shape, and I'm not finding much occurrence of the term "Muslim Aheer" or "Muslim Ahir", and "Aheer" alone was often used for the Ahir (Hindus) in British books, so I'm skeptical as to whether the term Aheer really encapsulates "Ahirs who converted to Islam". Thanks for any insight. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:51, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

I cannot find any reference to the Ranghars being Muslim Ahir. Every record from the early 20th Century census reports to the People of India series refer to them as converted Rajputs.

--WALTHAM2 (talk) 19:19, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Ranghar (Hindu)

Is there also a separate Ranghar community which is purely Hindu in nature. I found some references in on-line books :-

1>A history of the Sikhs:from Nadir Shah's invasion to the rise of Ranjit Singh, 1739-1799 - There is a body of Hindu Ranghar too, the original issues of Rajput fathers and Musalman mothers...(page 196)

2>Implications In Industrial Performance By Ashok Pratap Singh& Patiraj Kumari - The Ranghar are generally Muslims, though a few Hindu Ranghars exist. (page 694). The Hindu brethren (read Ranghar) however place themselves with Kshatriyas. (page 695)

3>glossary of the tribes and castes of the Punjab and North-West ..., Volume 3 By H.A. Rose - RANGHAR, RANGAR - A class of Rajputs, usually Muhammadan, rarely Hindu. (page 822)

These books suggest there also existed or exists a minority community of Ranghar (Hindu) - a good subject for research. Could it be a possiblity that Ranghar were a Hindu caste, majority of which converted to Islam and a very few Ranghar remained as Hindu. ??

Jethwarp (talk) 05:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Ranghars who have not accepted Islam, were called Hindu Ranghar Rajput. Further their offsprings were Ranghreta. As their father was Hindu and mother was Muslim. They were boycotted from Hinduism. But after the beginning of Sikhism, they got hope and converted to Sikhism. Nowadays they were know as Ranghreta Sikh. As the above proof in book A history of sikh nadir shah invasion page 196 says. Sikh like Akali Phula Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Jiwan Singh, Hari Singh Narua was examples of Hindu Ranghar, Rangreta sikh warriors. 38.183.11.245 (talk) 18:34, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I haven't seen any current reference in the People of India Series on Hindu Ranghars. As Ibbetson said in the late 19th Century, in his summary to the 1881 Census of India, that any Hindu Rajput who converts to Islam is known as a Ranghar, although the term is seen as offending by them. However, if there is current evidence of subsisting Hindu Ranghars, then I am happy to include them in this article.

--WALTHAM2 (talk) 09:05, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Provided that the sources comply with WP:RS, of course. And that they are not passing mentions. Actually, the People of India series is considered by many people not to be a reliable source - we really should avoid it if possible. - Sitush (talk) 09:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Added info that Ranghar are related to Bhatti Rajput ruler named Ranghar and that a minority Hindu ranghars existed at least in 19th Century citing above and other sources. Jethwarp (talk) 09:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Did you actually read what Waltham2 & myself said? Crooke, Blunt, Ibbetson etc are not modern reliable sources, while the Singh/Kumari source is not authoritative for this point. Ibbetson, despite being a census commissioner, actually went so far as to say that the Raj census report were hopeless when it came to identifying communities etc. . - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Dear Sitush, I am sure you are better judge about RS. I just thought that since both Crooke & Blunt mention that Ranghar probably got their name after their eponymous ancestor from a person named Ranghar, who was son of one Bhatti Rajput ruler, Jaswant Rao of Nanamau. Most of Ranghars converted to Islam during reign of Qutb-ud-din Aibak and Alauddin Khilji was worth a mention. If you feel so, then pl add them back. Thanks.Jethwarp (talk) 12:40, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I've done a fair amount of work on these various British Raj ethnologists etc. I've recently got H. H. Risley through WP:GA and James Tod through WP:FA, and am also the major contributor to the articles about the likes of Crooke, Gait, Rose, Russell etc. Almost without exception, they were screwed-up people with poor or inappropriately applied skills and a somewhat Machiavellian trait: they wanted to make Indian history fit their preconceptions. Now, I could still be wrong but I would much prefer that we use modern sources, as Waltham2 seems also to infer. And I really would not rely on the dreadful AnSI People of India (state series) books either, since they mostly plagiarise the Raj ethnologists. The original AnSI national series works, published by Oxford University Press, are ok but the state series is very, very poor - see my articles on Kumar Suresh Singh and The People of India. - Sitush (talk) 12:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Ranghar term in himachal is applied to high class rajputs such as Chandels, Minhas, etc. And the community is purely Hindu with no muslim connections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.239.232.9 (talk) 16:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Notable Ranghars

there are more notables ranghars some one deleting out the refrence of more notable ranghars — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.48.170.230 (talk) 06:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Etmology

some one is deleting the etmology section — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.48.55.253 (talk) 10:37, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Global Vision

The addition of this source has just been reverted by me. There is no way those authors have expertise in the matter for which they were being cited and in any event the source is published by Global Vision, an outfit which we simply do not accept. - Sitush (talk) 23:55, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Mislabeling as Sindhi

Refrain from including Ranghar in the 'Sindhi tribes' category. There is no link between it and Sindh or any Sindhi tribes. This mislabeling is leading to incorrect information being posted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.244.173.189 (talk) 23:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

To answer this a little belatedly, I know nothing about the subject matter or about what links there might or might not be. But if you want to have the categorisation removed, you will need to provide some reliable sources (see WP:RS) to challenge the current content of the articles. (Note this applies to all of the articles from which you removed the same categories, not just this one.) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:20, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I am a Sindhi and it is common knowledge that the mislabeled ethnic group is not a Sindhi tribe. Here is the concerned page from the Joshua Project in which you can see there is no mention of Ranghars being native to Sindh, as they are found only natively in the Punjab and Haryana, a region in India: (https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/21805/IN). Also notice that in the language section, the language of this group is Urdu. The native languages of Sindhi tribes is restricted to Sindhi and related dialects. Knowing a bit about the subject matter myself, the mislabeling is due to the presence of migrants of this group to Sindh in the aftermath of the creation of Pakistan and India. These migrants, who arrived in the region only after 1947, aren't native to the region and certainly can't be considered a Sindhi tribe. They may, however, be considered a tribe of the Punjab or Haryana regions. I have taken the liberty of removing the miscategorization of this group as a Sindhi tribe.113.203.204.235 (talk) 10:58, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I'm sorry, but we can't use your personal reasoning or what you say is "common knowledge". That's an example of WP:Synthesis and WP:Original research, both of which are not acceptable. Also, there are two problems with using joshuaproject.net as a source. Firstly, we can't use a source that doesn't mention something as a source for that something - as the old saying goes, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Secondly, I don't think joshuaproject.net would be considered a reliable source by Wikipedia's WP:RS standards (especially in the subject areas of castes, tribes and ethnic groups from the region, as there are countless poor sources out there). The site itself has a disclaimer that says "Joshua Project data is drawn from many sources and of varying accuracy depending on source and editorial decisions", which suggests it does not have the degree of editorial oversight that Wikiedia reequires of a source (and it also seems to have a pro-Rajput stance). What you need is a reliable source specifically about Ranghar communities, describing their locations and history. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:22, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi, the above poster is correct in that Ranghar is currently mislabeled as a Sindhi tribe. It is correctly categorized under 'Muhajir communities', which is a diasporic group of Indian Muslims which live in the Sindh province of Pakistan after having migrated there after 1947. To label it as a Sindhi tribe is a contradiction as they are different ethnic groups. Please see the 'Muhajir people' article for clarification. The poster is also correct, as are the Joshua Project links, in that the native language of this group, including Ranghar, is Urdu which isn't natively spoken in Sindh (please see the 'Sindhi people' article for clarification). So while the article is correct in that members of the group are found in Sindh, those are entirely members of the migrant Muhajir community which did not exist in Sindh before 1947. Here is a compiled version of Sir Richard F. Burton's work on Sindh, which lists major Sindhi tribes, for referencing: (http://sanipanhwar.com/Population%20of%20Sindh%20by%20R%20F%20Burton%20-%201847.pdf) Again, the correct categorization under 'Muhajir communities' should be enough for removing this article from the 'Sindhi tribes' category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2400:ADC1:10B:ED00:287A:F9E2:C6C8:770E (talk) 16:48, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Add Valid this Information about Ranghar

K.C Yadav in his book "The Revolt of 1857 in Haryana" writes about Ranghars, (Page No. 08 of Book),

"Another important Muslim caste was that of the Ranghars (6%), who were probably the Regars of old, and not Rajputs as some early British writers would have us believe. They had embraced Islam during the medieval times and lived in large villages in the Districts of Rohtak, Hissar and Panipat. Financially they were throughout in bad shape. Thus poor and needy they took to anti-social activities almost everywhere. They became freebooters and thieves, never caring for law and violating it with great ease."

Book Name: The Revolt of 1857 in Haryana Writer: K.C Yadev Date of Publication: 1977 Publisher: New Delhi : Manohar Book Service Pages : 192 ISBN: UCAL:B3187262 NKFJKFIFFF (talk) 18:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 August 2022

Add Rangri dialect (Haryanvi) as their language too. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 15:24, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Padgriffin ^{Griffin's Nest} 06:19, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Here - https://kjlr.pk/index.php/kjlr/article/download/148/86 Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 21:02, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Hindu Ranghar were know day know as Ranghreta Sikh

Hindu Ranghars who have not accepted Islam and who have Hindu father and Muslim mother, now days know as Ranghreta. As they have been socially boycotted by Bhramins as their offsprings have one generation Muslim mothers So their kids were called as Ranghreta, Ranghretrd and know das Rangreta.You will find them mainly in Sikhsim. A research have been done by Naranjan Aarfi, Baba Nihang Mandeep Singh Vidyarthi, And Shamsher Singh Ashok a historian. So they stayed as Untouchables. But after rising of Sikhism, they adopted this religion as it have no caste system. And they were treated normal after adopting Sikhism. AKALI PHULA SINGH, Banda Singh Bahadur, Baba Deep Singh, Baba Jiwan Singh, and Hari Singh Narua was Hindu Ranghar ( Ranghreta Sikh ).

Page no 196 Hari Ram Gupta historian.

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=NqEKAQAAIAAJ&q=ranghar+hindu&dq=ranghar+hindu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Sn5hT8KKLMrtrQfp0sHiBw&ved=0CGAQ6AEwCA

And this is Research by Naranjan Aarfi, Shamsher Singh Ashok Historian, Mandeep Singh Vidyarthi And it has been approved by

Prof Dr Kuldeep Singh Head department of history of central university of Punjab, Former HRD minister, GOI

Dr. Amandeep Kaur chairperson jallianwala bagh, Head of Guru Nanak Dev University Amritsar

https://archive.org/details/rangreta-sikh-and-hindu-ranghar-history-by-naranjan-aarfi/page/200/mode/1up

See after Page no 200 for English version.

You can even make a research or documantary on this. That how Hindu Ranghar Rajput have been discriminated and have been socially boycotted and forced to left Hinduism. And at last Sikhism have gave them their lost respect. As sikh warriors like Akali phula singh, Baba Deep Singh, Hari Singh Narua, they all were Rangreta sikh ( Hindu Ranghar Rajput ). You can see full video and documantary created by Naranjan Aarfi, Swarn singh IAS, Mandeep Singh vidyarthi on YouTube channel. They will explain all the incidents and circumstances that Hindu Ranghar have faced during that time. And how they have ambrassed Sikhism. 38.183.11.245 (talk) 19:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC)