Talk:Rapid transit in the United Kingdom

RM

It just seems logical to move it as possibly metro here is more common but...

Simply south (talk) 19:00, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Currently, this article covers both metro and tram systems. So I don't think that Metro systems in the United Kingom is a good name. But if this article is intended to deal with metro systems only, I will support the proposal. Otherwise, what about Light rail and metro systems in the United Kingdom? --Kildor (talk) 19:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Well actually both the DLR and the Tyne and Wear Metro are not trams but they do use light rail technology. They are light rail systems but completely different from trams in many ways e.g. they do not run on roads, they are fully grade separated etc. Simply south (talk) 20:40, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes. But I was referring to the tram section of the article: "There are many tram systems in the UK. These include the Sheffield Supertram, Tramlink in South London, Nottingham Express Transit and the Manchester Metrolink...". These are certainly not metro systems. And if the article is named Metro systems in the United Kingom, that section should be left out. --Kildor (talk) 20:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not really sure. Probably the second suggestion is better actually because some of the examples mentioned do fall into both. Simply south (talk) 14:42, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Or we could just keep the current name. The term rapid transit is often used in a way that includes both metro and light rail... --Kildor (talk) 14:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a little odd to call the London Underground a "metro system", since it predates the name "metro" by quite some time (as I understand it). Rapid transit seems more sensible to me. Sam Staton (talk) 16:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Street running trams are not Rapid Transit. --2A01:4B00:881D:3700:2511:F4E6:FE30:7B11 (talk) 13:52, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

A distinction must be made between street running trams (Manchester, Sheffield, etc) and light rail (DLR and Tyne & Wear Metro). --2A01:4B00:881D:3700:2511:F4E6:FE30:7B11 (talk) 13:52, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Merseyrail

I'm interested to know why Merseyrail is considered a rapid transit system in the same vein as the other four systems. Although it does include the most impressive underground loop, a fine achievement for UK rail development outside the capital, it is, as far as I understand, a heavy-rail commuter/suburban service - albeit one of the best in Britain - and if Merseyrail stays in this list (IMHO it should not), surely the suburban commuter routes of other cities ought to be included too (ie Glasgow, Greater Manchester, W. Mids and West Yorks plus most of the London Suburban commuter rail networks)?? --Mapmark (talk) 12:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Merseyrail is clearly a Rapid Transit network. It is a mini London Underground, the biggest and best in the UK outside London. It is not one line end-to-end urban commuter lines only running into a city centre. The centres of Liverpool and Birkenhead are underground. It is a complete segregated fast (rapid) network. Brand new rolling stock is being rolled out this year, with battery train trials next year to extend the network onto unelectrified track. --2A01:4B00:881D:3700:2511:F4E6:FE30:7B11 (talk) 13:48, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Merseyrail has characteristics of rapid transit like underground sections in Liverpool, Birkenhead etc, third rail operation & complete segregation, but I still wouldn't call it a true rapid transit system because it is owned by National Rail, some of the lines extend beyond the urban core of Liverpool (to Chester & Southport, both of which are separate to the Liverpool region) and the trains (including the new ones, despite them being named Metro Stadler trains) have a more commuter-oriented seating layout. So I'd say its best kept in the commuter rail with aspects of rapid transit section (just like the Elizabeth Line & London Overground). Broman178 (talk) 13:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

In addition to what I've stated in my comment above, its also worth pointing out that this source in the Merseyrail article lead does confirm that the system is commuter rail and not rapid transit - https://www.railengineer.co.uk/new-merseyrail-connected-trains/. So stating that it is rapid transit when sources like that say otherwise is largely speculative and mostly based on opinion. Broman178 (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Midland Metro

Is there a reason why the Midland Metro hasn't been included? If there are no particular reasons for not having, then I may well add it in. I would suppose that the Midland Metro is a Rapid Transit system. Isaacrg (talk) 10:38, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

It is a tram system not rapid transit. --2A01:4B00:881D:3700:2511:F4E6:FE30:7B11 (talk) 15:14, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Comprehensive table listing

Should a comprehensive table be added at the bottom of the page, for all of the rapid transit systems in the UK? This could perhaps include a columns for the number of lines, the transport authority responsible, and maybe even the number of passengers a year. Isaacrg (talk) 10:38, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Thameslink

Since my recent edit to add the Thameslink into this article got reverted by Mattdaviesfsic, I just thought I'd raise the issue here as he suggested in his edit summary. I personally would consider any commuter rail network/line which has a core section with frequencies in the 5-10 min range which matches rapid transit frequencies (Thameslink from what I've checked, can have a peak frequency of 4 minutes in the core section between Farringdon & St Pancras), third rail sections and even partially tunnelled stations to have aspects of rapid transit (I would say Thameslink is similar to the Elizabeth line in that multiple branches merge into one core line which has some tunnelled sections). In any case, not all rapid transit systems/commuter rail systems with similar rapid transit features have extensively tunnelled sections (The DLR being a good example of that in the UK).

Of course, as Mattdaviesfsic mentioned in his edit summary, I do agree that not all commuter/national rail lines with tunnelled stations can be counted as having rapid transit features - the Heathrow Express for example has tunnelled stations through Heathrow Airport, but with its frequency of just 15 minutes and the fact that it operates as a non-stop express service between Heathrow Terminals 2 & 3 and Paddington means that it wouldn't be counted as having true rapid transit features - but the Thameslink with some third rail sections, its peak frequency of being 5 mins or below due to many branches into the core section (like the Elizabeth line), with a few stations underground and having multiple stops within its core section in Central London might just match barely having rapid transit features. I would be grateful to hear what other people think and if anyone else thinks Thameslink doesn't match the criteria needed to be mentioned in this article (I think a criteria for mention/definitions section would be useful for this article, especially for the systems which aren't true rapid transit like the Elizabeth line & Merseyrail), then I am happy to exclude it from mention, many thanks. Broman178 (talk) 14:03, 28 June 2023 (UTC)