Talk:Received Pronunciation

The Queen's/King's English

I see that the term "The Queen's/King's English" has been reinstated in the lead after being removed yesterday. I see also that the author has cited the British Library paper on RP that seems, unfortunately, to have become the standard reference on RP (apart, of course, from the Wikipedia article itself). I can't object to this paper being quoted, but for the record, I have never heard "The Queen's/King's English" used to refer specifically to Received Pronunciation, and I believe the BL paper is wrong to suggest that it is a proper term to use in this context. RoachPeter (talk) 08:35, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Here's the definition of "Queen's English" in some dictionaries:

• Oxford English Dictionary: "the English language regarded as under the guardianship of the Queen; hence, standard or correct English"
• Cambridge Dictionary: "the English language as it is spoken in the south of England, considered by some people as a standard of good English"
• Merriam-Webster: "standard, pure, or correct English speech or usage[;] king's english —used especially when the British monarch is a queen"
• American Heritage Dictionary: "English speech or usage that is considered standard or accepted"

If major dictionaries can be trusted this looks like evidence that the term doesn't specifically refer to an accent. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 11:26, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Cambridge's definition sounds like RP though, no? And even the cited British Library source says "Popular terms for this accent, such as 'the Queen's English' ... are all a little misleading". So naming it as an alternative term without much contextualization, as done in the current version of the article, is indeed misleading, but I don't think it hurts to mention that the term(s) can refer to the accent, preferably in the "Alternative names" section. Nardog (talk) 11:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

• To suggest that London is in the South Midlands borders on silly. The angle which is lacking on the page is the effect of education. It would be more true to say that RP is spoken by most southerners and many others who have had higher education. The other thing I wanted to raise is that the effect of radio and television has been to spread RP in Britain simply because the BBC has had such a dominance of the spoken word in our society. Regional accents have withered in comparison. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

  “RP spoken by most southerners” is laughable. The south and south east has a variety of accents (as does London) and the vast majority of people speak with accents that sound absolutely nothing like RP. You could say most RP speakers are in the south east, but most people in the south east have their own distinct non RP accents. 81.99.178.220 (talk) 08:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

I was mildly surprised to see that the spread of RP and the creation of mass media/BBC has not really been made here. RP is/was the regional form of English of those in charge, and with the advent of mass communication the strength of the other regional varieties have weakened, even more so now with the web and the adoption of many American phrases/words/pronunciations etc.Halbared (talk) 10:19, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

nowadays it's called RP English 94.31.86.250 (talk) 13:07, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Standard Southern British

This article makes it sound as though SSB is merely a modern update of RP, but both of these separate forms exist now. Much has been written about the differences between RP and SSB. I recommend we begin a new article for SSB.Ordinary Person (talk) 11:25, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence for your claim? RoachPeter (talk) 19:48, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Alternative notation

The symbols given in the "Alternative notation" section are claimed to come from this source: "Case Studies – Received Pronunciation Phonology – RP Vowel Sounds". British Library.. However, this is clearly not the case (or no longer so). Can someone verify where these symbols are really coming from? Is it Upton? Wolfdog (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Alternative names

I have just reverted a contribution adding "cut-glass", on the grounds that this is an adjective rather than a name, and that the proposal is not backed up by a substantial reference. While looking again at Alternative Names I was reminded that the current final piece of the section, on Marghanita Laski and "Gentry", is barely relevant and somewhat ambivalent. Does anyone want to argue for its retention? RoachPeter (talk) 19:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)