Talk:Ryan O'Neal

Picture?

A picture would be useful here, I think.Zigzig20s 01:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

2008 incident

I removed this section because it is a word-for-word copy from the AP story. That is to say, copyright violation. Proxy User (talk) 21:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Paper Moon screenshot.jpg

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WP:BLP and WP:WEIGHT issues

I was startled to see that a significant proportion of this article is devoted to his legal troubles over the last two years. This would be warranted if O'Neal was noted for his legal troubles (as was, for instance, Lawrence Tierney). Failing that, I think this presents a serious issue under our policies. Reference can be made to his arrests and legal issues, but in much less space given the limited size of this article, the fact that this is a BLP, and that these issues are unrelated to his notability. I have, meanwhile, removed the legal issues segment in its entirety. Please discuss here before reinstating any of this removed material. Stetsonharry (talk) 19:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, what about using the material given but cutting out the level of detail? How about this:

O'Neal was arrested for allegedly assaulting his son, Griffin, in Malibu, California, police said on February 4, 2007. O'Neal was charged with assault with a deadly weapon and negligent discharge

O'Neal and his son Redmond were arrested September 17, 2008, after authorities said they found methamphetamine at the actor's Malibu home during a routine probation check on O'Neal's son. On January 9, 2009, O'Neal pleaded guilty to one felony count of possession of methamphetamine; he was sentenced to eighteen months in a drug rehabilitation program.

How's that? JoshuaZ (talk) 23:48, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be fine. It certainly can and should be mentioned, but not at the length as was previously. Stetsonharry (talk) 13:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this and find the expanded section on Redmond O'Neal to be even more inappropriate, as Redmond is not a public figure. Ryan's other children have had brushes with the law and other serious issues not directly related to his notability, and so those issues are not discussed here. That they are discussed elsewhere at Wikipedia is a result of non-inherited notability, as both chose to pursue acting careers and celebrity in their own right. Redmond is a private citizen and apart from the event involving his father deserves the same privacy as any other 24-year-old. Abrazame (talk) 09:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

References

"C" class

Here is the criteria for "C" class articles: "The article is better developed in style, structure and quality than Start-Class, but fails one or more of the criteria for B-Class. It may have some gaps or missing elements; need editing for clarity, balance or flow; or contain policy violations such as bias or original research." (More is at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment.) In particular, there is no requirement that an article needs to have "a proper lead section" to be "C" class. And an article with 15 footnotes, as this one has, is almost certainly not "start" class. Accordingly, I'm reverting this back to "C" class as an assessment of quality. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 21:55, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Earliest TV appearance???

I was watching old reruns on THE UNTOUCHABLES on Metv.com the other night and there was a brief flash of Ryan O'Neal playing a walk-on part of a bellhop at the very end of the show. His whole part lasted about 10 seconds and he was uncredited at the end. The date of the show was 1960. Unfortunately, I did not get the title of the episode. I was thinking this may be his earliest tv appearance?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.8.180 (talk) 22:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Recent content

Hi Robert, I'm concerned that all this court history isn't about the subject. How do you feel about it? I think it could be WP:COATRACK, and raises NPOV and weight concerns, being about events that the BLP subject didn't participate in. I'm going boldly to delete most of it, but please let's take it to WP:BLPN if you support it. The first sentence, "On August 4...", I'm not sure about: I think that would merit discussion at BLPN too. All the best, Spicemix (talk) 13:43, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Hi. This is the best I can come up with on the fly right now (may return here later) while doing diligence to your question. Would that I were the pundit you give me credit for. I think that, as discussed above (at==[[WP:BLP]] and [[WP:WEIGHT]] issues==), "cutting out the level of detail" re Ryan's own brushes with the law, is probably best. We shouldn't sugar coat the reality but no need to provide more than the minimum, and there must already be some mention on Griffin and Tatum's pages already. As far as things "[O'Neal] didn't participate in", that refers to Redmond, I presume, as he doesn't have (and I would posit doesn't need or merit) his own page so I am not sure what degree of coverage of that unfortunate young man's problems should be included on Ryan's page, especially since some is undoubtedly already present on Fawcett's page. Very sad all around. Quis separabit? 18:33, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Robert. For me the question is whether we should associate the son's life with the father's. As WP:BLP is strong on protecting people in doubtful cases, I feel that content is better left out. If I were Ryan I'm fairly sure I shouldn't feel comfortable with it, because his son's actions aren't his legal responsibility. Cheers! Spicemix (talk) 14:21, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Prostate cancer

Stage 4 cancer is not early; it's as late as you can get. The very sourced article says as much too. Per Wikipedia:Interviews#reliability, "Interviews are generally reliable for the fact that the interviewee said something, but not necessarily for the accuracy of what was said". IE He might have said it, but he doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't think a statement as significant as metastatic cancer being early and having a good prognosis is something that should be in an encyclopedia. So I removed the statement he made of the assessment of his condition. MartinezMD (talk) 23:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Status needs update to stage 2 2001:569:BB58:7B00:A852:302F:1039:408E (talk) 05:49, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Please provide a link to a reliable source for this content. General Ization ^Talk 05:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I found one and made an update.MartinezMD (talk) 12:40, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Unwarranted Categories?

Among the categories at the end of the the entry are "American sailors", "Phillips Academy alumni" and "United States Navy officers". The entry itself shows no indication of any of these. A cursory scan on the Internet shows no support. I suggest they should be deleted. JohnHarris (talk) 00:49, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I concur and removed them. I looked further and found those additions by a anonymous vandal IP and subsequent editors left them in place. MartinezMD (talk) 00:58, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Birth name

The evidence most strongly suggests his birth name is Charles Patrick Ryan O'Neal:

• Allmovie [1]

• California Birth Index [2]

Arbor to SJ (talk) 06:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Other sources using "Charles Patrick Ryan..." as birth name:

• • Turner Classic Movies [3]

• • TV Guide [4] (wayback machine indicates as far back as 2011) Arbor to SJ (talk) 06:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

  I'm still uncertain we can make a clear determination either way. Websites under the RhythmOne banner, like AllMovie, are not agreed upon as reliable sources. I have in the past scaled back using the TCM website for biographical information after seeing incorrect dates/facts replicated on it, and I do have concerns about sole reliance on a scrape of public records/primary source like californiabirthindex.org for a particular claim when multiple reliable secondary sources suggest something else, such as the articles in the footnote. Though the biography on O'Neal's official website is also a primary source, it has had "Patrick Ryan O'Neal" listed as his birth name as far back as 2012. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 13:54, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

  Update: I have just seen his Los Angeles Times obit, and it says "Charles Patrick Ryan O'Neal". I think an RS newspaper based in the city where he was born and lived most of his life is a very strong point in favor of that name, though I'd still hesitate to disregard the other sources entirely. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not asking to scrape off the California Birth Index or link to it in the article, rather to use that as a starting point to cite sources that align with the "Charles Patrick..." birth name. The CA Birth Index confirms what TCM and TV Guide list, in addition to the LA Times. Arbor to SJ (talk) 04:48, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  I have been compiling a list of sources that state one or the other in the footnote, though I've been uncertain what to do from there. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  @Arbor to SJ: I noticed your edit but I am moving to restore the note describing the discrepancies, as the death certificate released recently gives his full name as "Patrick Ryan O'Neal", without the Charles. I no longer agree that the balance of probabilities favors one name or the other, especially now that one public record (his birth record) now seems to be contradicted by a second public record (his death certificate). Sunshineisles2 (talk) 00:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

  The death certificate you link literally says "not a valid document to establish identity", so we shouldn't base any conclusions on that. Arbor to SJ (talk) 01:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

  Upon inspection, I would quibble about that reading (if not with your conclusion about its usefulness) and note that watermark also describes it as "informational", suggesting it's a copy that was released for public dissemination, and cannot be used the way that a death certificate might be needed in a legal context (i.e. to close bank accounts). It should otherwise be the same document used for official purposes. Regardless, since the biographical information on a death certificate (full name included) is provided by the family member acting as an informant, it is not a secondary source that Wikipedia should use to verify such a claim.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying that I agree that neither birth nor death records, especially as they were previously used, should be employed as a source if there is any way around it. My suggestion going forward would be to take a page from WP:WSAW, a good recent essay on this, which would be to review the non-public/non-primary sources currently available that are reliable to see if they favor a particular name, and note a dispute in prose or with a footnote. I would say the existing sources under those parameters favor Charles Patrick Ryan O'Neal, but I would favor a note, perhaps as an aside or footnote in early life, that other reliable sources disagree. This is literally a case where equivalent reliable sources (i.e. Variety is on the level of The Hollywood Reporter as entertainment industry sources) are reporting conflicting facts. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 01:32, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2023

{{subst:trim|1=

im a professional blogger i want to add some important aspects related to ryan kindly accept me!

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Liu1126 (talk) 10:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)