Talk:Ryde School with Upper Chine

Initial

This article definitely needs more references, as it currently has none. Editor5807^speak 18:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed page move

This article is currently named 'Ryde School', with 'Ryde School with Upper Chine' as a redirect. Since Ryde School with Upper Chine is the school's full name, personally I think it would be better to have this as the name of the article, and keep Ryde School as a redirect. It would be good to hear other peoples views on this. Editor5807^speak 18:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, no one has mentioned any objections, so I have taken some action and moved the article to 'Ryde School with Upper Chine', maintaining 'Ryde School' as a re-direct. Editor5807^speak 18:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

POV

The sections on planning applications appear to be using the page as a free campaign site. Fæ (talk) 09:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I have rewritten the article. I was not using it as a campaign. However, there has been some confusion as to whether or not people who were not the original consultees could comment on an Appeal. The answer is "yes".

I am very grateful to you for your kind help in pointing out what you did. On reflection, this is a much clearer edit, and I have pointed out that people can support, object or make suggestions. I have also pointed out the fact that there could be serious financial consequences if these buildings have to be removed.

Citations

Discussion for improvement should be on talk pages rather than in the article. Here is the text about citations recently added:

Citation: The Rydeian, the School Magazine, is published yearly: but there is no "online" version of it for this period, but it does exist in "hard copy" and the School does keep copies of all their magazines in their Archives.
Every year, the Headmaster addresses the School at Speech Day, some time in September, and the record of this speech is placed in the yearly magazine, The Rydeian. The Headmaster's Speech of September 2002 is of particular note because the son of the Founders, Roy McIsaac, is paid tribute, and it was Roy McIsaac who had helped to save the school in the 1950s when it faced a crisis.

Citations do not have to be available online but they should be verifiable. This is normally interpreted as publicly accessible in libraries or archives. If copies are not lodged in the local library (I'm not sure that the school archive is a suitable public archive), it may be worth confirming with the school if they would like to make electronic or scanned versions available for free release on Wikimedia Commons. It should be noted that a school magazine is considered a self-published source and so not a suitable reference to re-quote information from other sources (such as school statistics available from independent regulating authorities). When including quotations, please note the guidelines of WP:QUOTEFARM. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 12:47, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I greatly appreciate your help on this, Fae.

To me, it is something of a nightmare as to how to proceed.

Your thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated, just as the ones you made earlier led to my making a better edit, and then you completed it.

Could I possibly ask you to edit it?

Thank you so much —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bembridgian (talk • contribs) 15:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you take a small break from editing the same article and give some time properly to absorb the guidelines and style of things. It may be worth having a browse through some Featured articles to see what best practice looks like and take a peek at the templates and alternative layout styles. You may also benefit from checking the material and guidance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools.

Personally I would tend to avoid the longish quotes you want to add as they are rather promotional in tone which seems rather unencyclopaedic. This is, however, nothing wrong in linking to school website pages with this sort of material in support of an encyclopaedic factual summary. As for currently unsourced information, if you intend to take a bit of time to research how to quote off-line sources and check where things are officially published, there is nothing wrong with leaving {{citation needed}} templates to mark sections yet to be sourced. Even if someone eventually removes the text, it can be easily recovered from the page history when you do have a good quality source reference.

I'll keep the page on my watchlist but school articles are not a passion of mine, they tend to get stuck with maintenance issues and to be a magnet for school-boy vandalism for obvious reasons. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 15:25, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Fae

I am most grateful to you for your wise advice. I have now made about 30 references, but I am not the originator of all the material you see on this page, and do not know what some of the citations are - eg the person who has gone to music school, I have no details.

I have quoted from the book, and it is available for sale on Amazon, so I thought that to enable people to read the History would be all right, otherwise the school does become more of a "promo" whereas I was trying to trace the history of the school from its inception up to the present day.

The people who have written about the current events are not myself, but I have gone to the website of both the Old Rydeians Association and Ryde School websites to get the citations you requested.

I would be most grateful if you could just delete what you think is unnecessary, as it could cause me difficulties if I delete things whereas you are anonymous.

Thank you so much —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bembridgian (talk • contribs) 21:16, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll give it a look through in the next day or so. You should note that citations for most articles are not strictly required for non-contested (or non-controversial) material. Normally information about (or a quote from) living people needs reasonable sourcing but things about a school that would be self-evident by a glance at their website probably do not need lots of footnotes (for example the facilities available). Consequently though I might consider it fair to delete unsourced information about people (such as a list of students taking part in a school event), I probably would not worry about information such as the structure of School houses not having in-line citations.

If I don't get around to it or you need independent reviews or feedback in the future, you can raise a request at Requests for feedback or Editor assistance/Requests. Fæ (talk) 21:29, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I have marked a few areas requiring citations, ordered the layout and reformatted the citations. Some sections do not make that much sense, such as the publications at the end, but I would expect this to improve over time (perhaps an exercise for some of the students). I have removed the clean-up page notices as a result. Thanks, Fæ (talk) 09:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Fae Thank you again --- your editing is a breath of fresh air!

I note that the latest edit indicates "filling in references". Could you explain to me, a novice, what this is and how it is done, please? I am trying to follow you by example, and it is much easier for me than reading all the pages which simply confuse me.

Thank you again

best wishes

Bembridgian —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bembridgian (talk • contribs) 22:41, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

It is the result of a user script (in javascript) which provides a handy link for me to take the article to a reference checking tool (WP:Reflinks). The tool automatically tries to create a standard citation from any website link in a footnote. You can try it without running a script by typing in an article name you want to check at http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/view/Reflinks - it's safe to test out as you preview changes before saving anything. Fæ (talk) 05:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Most WP articles on schools which I have read (and I've read scores of them) have the promotional air of having been written by a teacher appointed by the school to write the article. Most of those articles are not encyclopaedic at all. They are mere supplements to the school prospectuses. Alrewas (talk) 14:46, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

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