Talk:Salmonella

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 21 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nathalie.solorzano. Peer reviewers: Tythomas13.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 September 2019 and 13 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vuej2093.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Huge overlap between Salmonella page and Salmonellosis page

This appears to be a pretty big issue - I think in future it would be good to move all info on symptoms and cases of outbreaks to the salmonellosis page and have this page reflect the lifestyle of the bacteria more. Information on the molecular mechanisms of infection may be better suited to this page, with a link on the salmonellosis page to this one for those who are interested. Currently it seems as though much of the content on the two pages is a cut-and-paste between the two.

(input welcome on these points) Maonao (talk) 03:53, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree. Please start the process if you can. There's lots of material here that should be moved to the Salmonellosis article. Molecular mechanisms of infection can be detailed here but may need to be presented briefly in the Salmonellosis article since many infectious disease articles have a "Mechanism" or "Pathophysiology" section. CatPath (talk) 16:10, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Good article on Salmonella to link

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/salmonellosis_gi.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.204.106.25 (talk) 11:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Species

I've been doing research on Salmonella recently and our section here in outdated. I'm editing so that it follows Dr. Janda's The Enterobacteria (2005). Jhay116 (talk) 15:03, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Salmonella in eggs

Could someone comment on how Salmonella became present in eggs only in the 20th century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.232.59 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 4 December 2004 (UTC)

... and how to treat it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.189.80 (talk • contribs) 22:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See Salmonellosis —Quicksilver^{T @} 19:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

No, when you find out, could you add your findings (and the sources) to this page? Thank you. JFW | T@lk 10:28, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As I recall, somebody made the discovery that chickens grow larger if fed lots of antibiotics. This had the unfortunate effect that some strains of salmonella became resistant, and these more harmful strains became endemic.

Ironically, food poisoning from salmonella is due to modern food preparation methods. It used to be that most people were resistant to salmonella, especially those living in poverty — less sanitary preparation results in more bacteria being ingested. The human immune system is well equipped to deal with regular infection by a particular organism, but now that salmonella is rarely found in food, it causes severe reactions when encountered. Undercooked chicken and eggs are not harmful if eaten regularly. --[[User:Eequor|ᓛᖁᑐ]] 07:02, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Actually (according to some Dietary groups, like primal diet group) it seem that salmonella grows especially in food AFTER it has been cooked and then left for the night, and not eaten straight away. So it might be that more and more people changed their habits in the 20th century. For example in Italy people use to eat raw eggs often, just drinking them. That had a special expression, it was called "sucking eggs". The current generation do it very very rarely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.138.135.18 (talk • contribs) 16:50, 1 February 2005 (UTC)

I added the bit on Reiter's syndrome, I thought it would be potentially important information here. Reiter's syndrome mentions salmonella, as does its external link. I heard about Reiter's syndrome as a consequence of salmonella last night on Discovery Health Channel (I think). --AshyRaccoon 21:13, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

I came to this page looking for info about the consequences of a salmonella infection, and to find out which places in the world you can safely , say, eat raw eggs... More non-med info would be nice! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.211.195.217 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 28 November 2006(UTC)

Gram-negative

Whoever keeps reverting my edits on 'gram-negative'... Please do not just revert the edit but tell us why being Gram-negative is important! If it is not an indication that the bug will cause illness, what is the significance? Tell me why I need to know that it is "Gram-negative"!

We need to edit these articles so that they can be understood by someone who does not have two years in med school already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KeyStroke (talk • contribs) 16:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Gram staining is the primary classification used in microbiology. It literally describes the result of a particular staining procedure, but the implications explain two intrinsic physiologically lineages within eubacteria.

By stating that salmonella are gram negative we are summarrizing that it has a lipopolysaccharide outer membrane, a periplasmic space, a thin peptidoglycan layer and an inner membrane. Gram postive prokaryotes have only one membrane and a very thick peptidoglycan cell wall. Gram negatives also have intrinsic resistance to much older forms of antibiotics like the original pennicillins.

Neither gram type of bacteria is more inclined to cause illness than the other. Virulent gram positives include: Bacillus anthracis(Anthrax), Staphylococcus aureus(maybe the deadliest), Steptococcus sp., and all the Clostridia(Botulism, Tetanus, and C. difficile), etc. Gram negative virulent bacteria include: E.coli(the bad kind not the normal kind), Yersinia pestis(The Bubonic plague), Salmonella sp. , Vibrio cholerae(Cholera, and the fastest swimming bacteria!), etc.

Every bacteria page states the gram type just like every politician page states their party. There is great importance to being gram negative or not, but the salmonella page is not the one to try and tackle the issues. Contact me to discuss further.... Adenosine | Talk 08:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

but was the one that started this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.49.245.12 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 16 February 2007(UTC)

Also, consider this: Yes these articles need to be understandable by people who (like me) have not gone to med school. But that's why "Gram-negative" is a link to a page telling us what it means. –MiguelMunoz (talk) 09:53, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what's the origin of the name?

Why is it called Salmonella? does it have anything to do with salmons? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arthurian Legend (talk • contribs) 05:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

Information on the main article page sows that the genus salmonella was named after Daniel Elmer Salmon, an American veterinary pathologist, although it was his subordinate Theobald Smith (better known for his work on anaphylaxis) who first discovered the bacterium in 1885 from pigs.

See: Salmonella Synd/402 at Who Named It? and Daniel Elmer Salmon Doctor/408 at Who Named It? -- User:Micjohn

I still think the person who actually discovered salmonella can be disputed. Some sources, like the USDA link on the article page, say Salmon discovered it while others say Smith discovered it. I don't think there can be one concrete answer for the discovery of salmonella. THE evil fluffyface (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think the most logical explanation for the name would have to be Daniel's surname. It has nothing to do with salmons... unless you mean eating raw fish and then getting salmonella off it. I highly doubt that would be why they call it what they do. Lady★Galaxy 03:06, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Per the FDA's CFSAN (Food Safety Network) page:

In the late 1800s, Dr. Theobald Smith, a researcher under Dr. Daniel E. Salmon in the USDA's Bureau of Animal Industry, was the first American to identify Salmonella as a separate strain or genus. Although Smith actually identified the bacteria, Salmon's name as administrator was listed first on the research paper, so the new bacterium was named for Salmon.

-- MarcoTolo (talk) 20:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

I`m not sure if it's vandalism, but the latest edits have added the following phrase to the article

"Salmonella is properly pronounced voicing the initial "l," since it is named for pathologist D.E. Salmon, and originated from the salmon fish, just as Swine Flu comes from pigs."

that just sounds wrong 67.55.11.193 (talk) 06:02, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

It is wrong, and was vandalism or ignorance. The bacterium has nothing to do with the fish. Which is the point, since it's not pronounced like the fish. SBHarris 06:11, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

and then so but why is silencing the initial L necessarily incorrect? Is there an orthodox way of pronouncing the surname that requires all consonants to be pronounced? Is this akin to the custom of pronouncing the surname "Christ" with the vowel sound in "bit" instead of "bite"?Trueno Peinado (talk) 00:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

It is lacking

This should have the symptoms listed in the article.Philippe Auguste (talk) 03:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

There's a link to salmonellosis, which has a discussion of the symptoms. --Joelmills (talk) 04:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Groups...

It seems that there are a couple of different nomenclatures out there for naming/grouping salmonella. I read through PMID 15653929 and PMID 15653930 find myself less enlighted than I had hoped 'cause it doesn't explain the "Groups".

The article PMID 7073269 Full Text PDFFull Text HTML talks about Salmonella typhi and Salmonella Group A, Salmonella Group B, Salmonella Group C, Salmonella Group D. Also, since S. paratyphi is thought to cause enteric fever (aka typhoid fever)[1]... I'm wondering where that fits in. Aside from that... I'm wondering where the evidence is on treating salmonellosis. eMedicine seems to suggest you Tx 'em all. A book I have (Toronto Notes[2]) suggest you treat all the S. typhi. Any one out there that can explain this? Nephron  T|C 03:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I have updated the Salmonella page to include the division of the genus into typhoidal and non-typhoidal forms. There is another group that is sometimes (rarely, as far as I can tell) referred to, which is the group that causes bacteremia. I only saw this reference in one paper that I've read so far, so I left it out. If we were to include it, then S. Choleraesuis and S Dublin were mentioned in the paper as the only two serovars that cause it, but you may be able to include the iNTS serovars in this category as well. Then it becomes an issue of whether you count ones that cause enteric disease in most people, and bacteremia in those who are immunocompromised. Maonao (talk) 03:41, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay, so why does the top of the page say there are two types of salmonella: S. bongori and S. enterica, but later in the article, it identifies Salmonella Typhi. Why isn't that mentioned at the top of the article? –MiguelMunoz (talk) 09:51, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

References

News

Wall Street Journal reports "Swiss researchers recently showed how salmonella bacteria produce a subset of "kamikaze" fighters. Making up about 15% of the total salmonella population, these suicide salmonella secrete a chemical flag that tricks the immune system into killing them ­and, more important, virtually all of the benign bacteria around them. Freed from the competition of the body's benign gut bacteria, the majority of salmonella bacteria can move in and cause disease." May be worth a mention (if true). Rod57 (talk) 23:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Would be good if someone could find a link to scientific literature that addresses this. Maonao (talk) 03:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

2008 article is doi:10.1038/nature07067. Artoria2e5 🌉 09:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Lifespan — general

Can someone tell me how long it takes the germ to die? How long should you wait to use something you can't disinfect but that you might have touched while working with raw chicken? Also, I'd like to see a wide range of info left in. The stuff at the top is the clear basic intro, but who knows what other people may be looking for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dnrsewell (talk • contribs) 21:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I deleted the following sentence. It seemed like vandalism since it was ostensibly complete nonsense, and there was no citation for me to check so that I could correct it. "Salmonella die extremely slowly in acid media, and common disinfectants destroy them within a few millennia." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.186.185.248 (talk) 13:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

See Salmonellosis —Quicksilver^{T @} 19:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Lifespan on surfaces

This article mentions sanitizing food contact surfaces. It would be helpful to also mention how long Salmonella can live on a surface. — Epastore (talk) 00:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

History

I don't know why, but about a month ago the brief history of this article was removed by an anonymous IP in a war of vandalism. Although the vandalism was restored, I'm not sure why the background information never was. So I brought it back. Mr. Salmon still has his own article on here, and it's short enough as it is... so I don't think this will hurt. Lady★Galaxy 03:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Although adequate cooking kills the salmonella bacteria, the poison produced by the living bacterium will remain!

Although adequate cooking kills the salmonella bacteria, the poison produced by the living bacterium will remain! This can be important to those who may need to know if they can safely re-cook older meat and then either feed it to their pets or else feed it to humans! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.108.173 (talk) 18:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Poison from a biological source is called a "toxin". — Quicksilver^{T @} 12:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

German expansion completed

87.158.155.97 (talk) 10:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Note: Since it went into far more technical detail than all the other sections, I highly summarized the German section on "Nomenclature" to keep the entire article in balance. Does anyone think this entire section should be translated anyway? 87.158.155.97 (talk) 10:40, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Citation removed

The following link was stuck in the references section "http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-03-11-foodrecall11_ST_N.htm", but it wasn't actually cited inline so it ended up creating a reflist error. Perhaps someone meant to use this in support of a point and didn't know where to put it? Matt Deres (talk) 21:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Sources of Infection

Don't animals such as snails carry the disease too? --TangoFett (talk) 11:03, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Enteritis Salmonella and food poisoning

Translated some from the French page 153.19.230.254 (talk) 21:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Unclear wording under "DEATH" section removed

I removed the phrase "but the rate of egg yolk contamination is theoretically unlikely" since that doesn't make any sense as written. There seems to be a missing word, such as "a [high] rate...is theoretically unlikely". However, I can't find anything in the sources cited that states this. I'd be happy to re-insert this phrase if clarification is provided. 98.122.100.101 (talk) 20:19, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I moved the stuff in the Death section about eggs to the sources of infection section. Maonao (talk) 03:47, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Citation for rate(s) in Germany?

The article states "It is estimated that every fifth person in Germany is a carrier of Salmonella."—is this really true? It doesn't seem possible, I think a citation is needed. Also perhaps a quick explanation why this is the case? Historian932 (talk) 15:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Translation tag

...er, just out of curiosity, why does this have a "finish translating from the Dutch Wikipedia article"? The Dutch equivalent is rather shorter than the English language one. Queenmomcat (talk) 01:34, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

It looks like until 78.27.33.6 edited it in October 2010 that hatnote linked to the French article (possible vandalism?). I reverted it. It does look like there's some unique content in the French version, but none of it seems to be cited. —Mu Mind (talk) 04:26, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Anti-Salmonella food prep

Since public awareness of the danger of Salmonella in eggs became an issue in the '80s, people have been afraid of eating things like Caesar salads, for example, made with raw eggs, or home prepared mayonnaise. At the time, many food scientists and biologists stated that the acidity in those foods, from lemon juice or vinegar, was enough to kill or denature or something (I've forgotten the details) the Salmonella. In Caesar dressing, mayonnaise and Hollandaise (there are probably many more), the egg yolks are combined with lemon juice or vinegar before the oil portion of the ingredients is added.

Taken logically, it's ridiculous to think that yesterday a Caesar salad was okay, but today, when you now know about Salmonella in eggs, it's a deadly dish, but that was the general reaction. In spite of that, or because of it, it would be good to give some real world examples of what's safe and what's not in food prep, at least with eggs, since they seem to be the focus, e.g., 1 tsp. of lemon juice to 1 egg yolk -- I made that up, but something like that. I can try to find some refs on this online, but I don't know how successful I'll be. Huh. Well I did find an article. Here's the link, and it tells how to make egg yolks safe for home use in dressings and sauces that aren't cooked. I'm not sure of the date, but here's the full info on title, author etc:

O. Peter Snyder, Jr., Ph.D.

Hospitality Institute of Technology and Management

670 Transfer Road, Suite 21A

St. Paul, Minnesota 55114 USA

If anyone else is knowledgeable on this aspect of Salmonella, I'd like to see some kind of common sense section here. I realize this is a culinary issue, but it's directly related, and this article is probably where people are going to start looking for this kind of info. It won't change things for those who are in panic mode, but it might give the rest of us the comfort of some safe guidelines in feeding ourselves and our families. I mean, I spent years eating Caesar salads, good ones, without ill effects, but now I'm a little about it without some kind of guidelines to reassure me. Really, it would be a public service. Zlama (talk) 23:24, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

The new link is at https://web.archive.org/web/20130402063411/http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Mayonnaise.pdf. This doesn't look like MEDRS, but it might not need to, considering it's food stuff already set up for HACCP. It starts with FDA requirements for acidity but puts pasteurization on top. Pretty cool. Artoria2e5 🌉 10:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Salmonella subterranean

Information about a recently discovered species of Salmonella, Salmonella subterranean, should be added under the Salmonella Nomenclature section. It was discovered in 2005 and now brings the total number of species of Salmonella to 3. For those interested, Su L. H. & Chiu C. H. (2007). Salmonella: Clinical importance and evolution of nomenclature. Chang Gung Med J 30, 210-219. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MicrobeLady (talk • contribs) 19:37, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced stat may reflect out-dated info

This sentence: "According to the World Health Organization, over 16 million people worldwide are infected with typhoid fever each year, with 500,000 to 600,000 fatal cases." in the "Enteritis Salmonellosis or Food Poisoning Salmonella" section is unsourced. It probably referred to an out-of-date source, since this source (http://www.globalhydration.com/resources/waterbone-disease#typhoid) states: "Typhoid fever is still common in the developing world, where it affects about 21.5 million persons each year", meaning that the global stat of 16 million annually is less than the 21.5 million cases in the developing world alone annually. This conflict of data should be reconciled. $cammer (talk) 04:04, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Any immunity after first infection?

I haven't heard much about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.95.229 (talk) 05:35, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

What about Host Adaptation?

I think that this article could use a section devoted to research concerning the evolution of Salmonella and its serotypes in the case of host adaptation. There are several different ways to talk about host adaptation in Salmonella: through genetic sequencing and the study of mutations in pseudogenes, through multiple horizontal gene transfers, and even through an O-antigen polymorphism. See (http://genome.cshlp.org/content/18/10/1624.full.pdf+html), (http://iai.asm.org/content/70/5/2249.short), and (http://iai.asm.org/content/66/10/4579.full.pdf+html) Benson.334 (talk) 02:28, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Review

About invasive Salmonella species doi:10.1128/CMR.00002-15 JFW | T@lk 14:20, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Salmonella/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

why use all this scientific explanations when giving definitions, could someone break-down the definition of salmonella THANK YOU

Substituted at 21:22, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Add desciption to image?

Could someone with the knowledge add a description to the image? How many general audience readers know what they are looking at? - I don't. (It's a beautiful photo, BTW.) Specifically, what technique was used to create the image? What tissue are the bacteria embedded in? Something like "3D scanning electron microscope image of Salmonella, stained violet, from lymph node biopsy" I just made all that up - it's a suggestion for the format, not the facts. Regards IiKkEe (talk) 13:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I figured it out. IiKkEe (talk) 16:57, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Lead changes

I have completed a Lead revision, reorganization, and expansion using only material from the Body of the article, hopefully to better summarize the contents of the Body, since many general readers stop after reading the Lead. The goals were readability, conciseness, relevance, accuracy and clarity.

The biggest expansion was in summarizing the diseases caused by Salmonella - I realize there are separate articles on this, and I have tried to hit only the highlights here: 3 short sentences expanded to 7 long sentences. Regards IiKkEe (talk) 16:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

New emerging Salmonella strain in Sub-Saharan Africa

There's a new emerging Salmonella strain in Sub-Saharan Africa (SSA) with increased ESBL production and antibiotic resistance. This particular strain only causes bloodstream infections in different SSA communities and acquires a virulence plasmid. I think it is good to update this piece of information. Here is the link to the article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-11844-z. --Ntam97 (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Toxins

If I eat months old eggs, can I still get sick from the toxins, even if I kill the bacteria? Benjamin (talk) 16:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)