Talk:Sean Kelly (cyclist)

More Work Needed

This tribute clearly lacks the detailed biography that this fine cyclist clearly deserves, and somebody with the facts and dates to hand should add them as soon as possible. —The preceding comment was added by 80.212.178.214 (talk) 09:13, December 19, 2004

Fair comment, but not in the article. Alai 03:22, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Middle name

I added John as Seán Kelly's middle name. This information I got from an anecdote he gave while commentating for Eurosport yesterday - so I have no idea how to cite it! Regards, Severo^TC 13:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Thats strange because John is the English name for the Irish name Seán? In the past in Ireland, people sometimes used to write such a name on the Birth certificate but in life theyd call their son the Irish version, but if the man himself said it then maybe thats how things were done in carrick on suir!, Eugenepunk

Hmms, maybe that's what he meant. I can't go back and listen again so I've reverted for now. Severo^TC 16:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Early Professional Career

Under early professional career this article describes Kellys first classic win in 1983 but in fact his carreer began in 1977 and 1978 which included a tour stage win and a win over merckx in 1977 shouldnt these be early professsional career highlight? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dawesaudax (talk • contribs) 09:16, June 7, 2007.

Find sources and Be bold! -Severo^TC 10:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added alot of stuff just now regarding Sean Kelly's early career, I quoted a book by David Walsh which is called Kelly; I found on the internet two ISBNs for this book so I didn't know which one to use. Also the reference to the Sean Kelly Square in Carrick on Suir is placed there, after the end of the 1982 season because the square was presented to him after his successes in Europe and specifically after his bronze medal in the World Championship road race. I can also add information regarding his Nissan Classic wins and his Tour of Spain wins but firstly I just want to see if this information and the references are suitable. --Dawesaudax 06:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Good work! LDHan 15:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

First name

According to the book Kelly:A biography of Sean Kelly by David Walsh (ISBN 0586 07387 6) p29 "the new baby was christened John James, after his father. But, in the great tradition of Irish curiosities, his name was immediately changed to Sean so that he would not be confused with his dad, the real John James Kelly. Now neither version is known by the names which appear on their birth certificates. The senior one is Jack and the son is Sean." so according to the book, from this specific paragraph Sean is on the birth cert...--Dawesaudax 19:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean Sean is not on the birth cert. ? Doctormatt 20:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the book says both Jack and Sean Kelly have "John James Kelly" on their birth certificates. LDHan 20:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The above excerpt from the book that I typed in there is the only thing in that book (which is from spring 87) that mentions this. There is a second biography that maybe has it written differently and could therefore be interpreted easier. But when I first read it i thought that at the christening it was John James but that if the birth cert was at a later time it was Sean but I made a mistake - I think the birth cert says John, --Dawesaudax 20:19, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

First name - spelling

Can anyone provide a source for the spelling 'Seán', as opposed to 'Sean'? Biographies and Kelly's own academy website use the latter, and I can't find any reference to the former. If noone objects, I'll amend the article. -92.235.176.162 (talk) 04:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Done --hippo43 (talk) 23:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

This has been moved again, without any explanation or discussion - I'll move it back. --hippo43 (talk) 14:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Here are various sources from Ireland where 'Seán' is the most common spelling by far.

[1] Mayonews

[2] RTE

[3] Corkcity

[4] Texaco

[5] An Post

All very valid including the national broadcaster and his sponsor's official website. I plan to move it back but will wait a while to allow a reply.

Fionnsci (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

There is a far greater number of Irish online sources that use the spelling "Sean". An Post and RTE, among the examples you gave above, uses both spellings. More importantly, more specific sources like biographies and his own websites ([6], [7]) use "Sean". Do not start an edit war by moving it back - I suggest we wait for more users to comment. --hippo43 (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Fadas are left out mistakenly and incorrectly all the time. Take Pádraig Harrington for instance. His name is undoubtedly spelt as I have done though a search may lead people to think otherwise. The matter should not be what most people on the internet use but what the people themselves use. In most cases in Ireland thisn is 'Seán'. Fionnsci (talk) 12:18, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I know they are often left out, but they are also sometimes mistakenly added. We have to go with what reliable sources (online and offline) tell us the spelling is, and not guess based on what we think other Irish people would choose. In this case, it seems to be "Sean". --hippo43 (talk) 14:39, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

It is hard for an outsider (and I do not mean that condescendingly or as an insult) to understand the usage of the fada in first names. It is casual and often left out when convenient. Some do not use it in circumstances where it might cause confusion or a need for explanation or correction. And of course for some (the minority in my experience) it is simply forgotten about. "they are also sometimes mistakenly added" - Very rarely if ever in my personal experience having kept an eye out for it. The official title of Mr. Kelly's cycling team is the 'Seán Kelly Cycling team'. [8] [9] [10]. These links are strong if not overwhelming in number and are surely not mistaken. Fionnsci (talk) 23:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Please don't presume I am an "outsider" - it's not hard for me to understand this at all. A respected biography of Kelly uses "Sean" - we have to credit the author with doing some research, particularly as the book explicitly addresses how this name/nickname came about. Second, you have made numerous changes of this sort to other articles about people named Sean, based not on checking them individually but on what you believe about Irish people in general - a form of original research. Listing these links again does nothing to strengthen your case - as I pointed out above, they contain numerous references to both spellings. Your argument about the "official title" of his team is spurious. The An Post article you cite above (the team's sponsor) contains 8 Seans (including the title and headline) and only 3 Seáns. --hippo43 (talk) 04:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

featured status ?

This is an excellent article. should it be sent forward for featured status ?--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 10:55, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

There's a couple of dead links to cleanup first but no reason after that why it shouldn't be put forward. However, I would go for Good Article status first as a stepping-stone. The only other road cyclist to have GA status (none have FA) is Alberto Contador (promoted with this revision) so you could take a look there for ideas on anything missing. Severo^TC 15:34, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Cow Shite section

I have again removed the section on cow shite and as per WP:BRD and brought the topic here for discussion. I believe that not only is the section trivia but also the title is offensive. It has not place here on or anywhere on this project. I am off course only one and will welcome others opinions. Bjmullan (talk) 17:43, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

What was the actual text of the section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.131.26 (talk) 16:06, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:32, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Sean Kelly (cyclist) → Sean Kelly – Primary topic. Page views: 46,020, 5,356, 4,218,3,766, 3,620, 792, 85. Relisted, also see discussion GB fan 13:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC) User:Marcus Qwertyus 04:49, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support - Based on these figures I agree with this move request. Bjmullan (talk) 14:59, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose: incoming links to the dab page suggest that many other Sean Kellys are regularly sought by readers and editors. PamD 08:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Meetings primary topic criteria. Number of incoming links reflects how many different Sean Kelly's there are, not which is most likely to be sought. Page view counts is a much bigger indicator of that. --Born2cycle (talk) 20:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. The 2010 year summary stats are somewhat misleading. The cyclist garnered 30% of the yearly page views in one month [11]. This appears to be a trend as the 201107 results show a similar spike compared to other months. Looking a Google results doesn't really support that the cyclist is so overwhelmingly well-known as to be the primary topic. older ≠ wiser 02:45, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Section or article on Ireland's top cyclists, or cycling as a whole

As Kelly is generally agreed to be the leading cyclist Ireland has produced, followed by Stephen Roche and Shay Elliott, this seems the right place to put this. So I just wanted to bring up the question, should there be a section on each of their pages, or better an overall page on Irish cycling with such a section, putting this together. While Ireland has only produced 3 truly top rank cyclists, this is actually punching above weight for a small ans remote country. In the Shay Elliott era, when even the UK was marginal to world cycling (which was dominated by 3-4 "big" European countries, backed by 2-3 smaller ones), Elliott was arguably more than the UK produced (Simpson and Robinson would be the competition, perhaps). And later Ireland had Kelly and Roche, while the UK had to wait for Wiggins and Froome much later to get anywhere similar (and I think many would argue the Irish pair, especially Kelly, are ahead). All in all, and with space for Martin Earley, the Kimmages, and a few others, some general perspective on cycling in Ireland seems wanting.79.104.4.174 (talk) 07:18, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Birthday

Despite Cycleranking giving his dob as 24 May, the archived page [12] gives 21 May. The Eurosport team also celebrated his birthday with him on 21 May, this week. Nthep (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Sean Kelly's actual date of birth is 24 May 1956. It's evident by unequivocal confirmation in the book, The Ascent: Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche and the Rise of Irish Cycling's Golden Generation by Barry Ryan. [13] Google Books

Quote: "John James Kelly was born in Belleville maternity home in Waterford City on 24 May 1956, the second son of Jack and Nellie Kelly."