Talk:Seasonal thermal energy storage

Proposed change of the article's title

Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The current name of the article is "Seasonal thermal store," but this differs from the commonly used term for these technologies, which is seasonal thermal energy storage (STES). This term is throughout the literature, from the 1980s to the present. Some example references.^[1]^[2] Therefore I respectfully propose that the title of this article be changed to "Seasonal thermal energy storage (STES)". As further justification, a "store" is an object (or facility), but "storage" more directly evokes a technology. Coastwise (talk) 08:39, 14 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

Having heard no objections, I have revised the article title. Double redirects to the article have been fixed. I have also revised the introductory section. Coastwise (talk) 10:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

It should have been to Seasonal thermal energy storage, though. We do not use parentheses for alternate titles, we use them for WP:Disambiguation. The acronym is used in parentheses in the article, but not in the article name. Delphi234 (talk) 18:38, 29 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

References

^ STES Newsletter, 3:1, Dec. 1980
^ Nordell B., Gehlin S. (2009). 30 Years of Thermal Energy Storage - A Review of The IEA ECES Stock Conferences. Effstock Conference -- Thermal Energy Storage for Efficiency and Sustainability (11th International), 2009.

Further needs for this article

Latest comment: 11 years ago3 comments1 person in discussion

This is important technology, and this article should be expanded. Also, it includes few references but there are many good ones that can be provided. The topic of this article is well worth the effort. Coastwise (talk) 10:11, 26 November 2012 (UTC)Reply

I have added a section about the various kinds of STES technology. Coastwise (talk) 10:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)Reply

The material on temperature classes should be condensed, and should be checked for accuracy. Coastwise (talk) 10:37, 22 April 2013 (UTC)Reply

Need for evidence

Latest comment: 11 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The article included the following improbable statement: "After 3–5 years of operation a stable thermal gradient is established horizontally in the rock, and heat loss is through the top". Whether a stable thermal gradient is achieved will depend on the balance of heat added and extracted during each year. Why should the thermal gradient stabilise after 3 years? What evidence is there for this? Under what conditions will this be true? Heat will tend to flow from higher temperatures to lower temperatures - from the top, the side or the bottom. The heat loss will only be greater through the top if insulation is lower at the top than in other directions. Heat losses would be much greater elsewhere if there is moving groundwater.

The article included the following improbable statement: "Storage efficiency increases with the volume of rock accessed by the borehole heat exchangers (BHEs), and decreases with storage temperature". Storage capacity will increase with the volume of rock (or ground) accessed. What evidence is there that storage efficiency will increase with the volume of rock? The higher the temperature, the greater the heat losses will be. What evidence is there that "storage efficiency decreases with storage temperature?

If these statements are to be restored then evidence or explanations should be provided. [Unsigned, posted by Spitfired, 09:37, July 4, 2013. Please sign posts by typing 4 tild characters; your name will be inserted.]

(1) Regarding the thermal gradient, I will use the second illustration on page of 5 this document in my explanation: www.gshp.org.uk/documents/10.ProfGoranHellstrom.pdf. The outer margins of dark blue are the native rock temperature. The storage is charged with heat in successive boreholes, from the inner boreholes to the outer ones. In the first place this establishes a gradient that retains heat and minimizes losses. Heat flow occurs only where there is a temperature difference; the greater the difference the greater the flow. After a stable thermal gradient is established (in 3-5 years as explained later) temperature differences distant from the core are so small per incremental unit of distance that the heat flow (i.e. loss) is negligible. "Negligible" is the proper word, rather than "none" for the heat loss. Heat loss is non-negligible because there is not enough expanse of rock to provide an insulating gradient. Insulation of some sort (mineral or other) is often placed over the top. I have been distracted from finding a succinct reference that explains this.

(2) A three to five year period to charge the storage and obtain a stable thermal gradient is mentioned in many sources. You can find it for one in some of the Drake Landing materials. I will look for a good reference, but won't have time for several weeks.

Both statements should be restored in the article and marked citation needed. Happy to answer your questions. Coastwise (talk) 03:57, 6 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

(1) Regarding the thermal gradient, Coastwise refers to a well respected source - Prof Goran Hellstrom - who is very familiar with thermal modelling and is likely to have designed a system that aims for thermal balance over each year: energy stored during the year approximately equal to energy extracted. In these conditions a stable thermal gradient is likely to be achieved horizontally in surrounding rock. However, a stable thermal gradient [measured at the same time of year in succeeding years] will only be achieved if an approximate thermal balance is achieved within each year. If more heat is extracted than stored each year then the surrounding rock temperature will continue to fall for many years - because the transfer of heat within rock occurs at a very slow rate. This is the reason that gshp systems can fail if the ground array is too small. It is also the reason that BTES can be very successful at storing heat energy between seasons - provided the designer is able to aim for an overall heat balance within each annual cycle.

(2) Three to five years to charge the BTES installation at Drake Landing is very credible. Drake Landing is a very interesting - and technically successful - project, but it is not a typical BTES installation. It is, I believe, a new build housing complex with integral district heating, solar thermal collection and central seasonal heat storage using shallow BTES via a transfer station utilising high ground storage temperatures. It may be unique. It may not be valid to generalise from this specific example.

I would hesitate to restore these statements until reliable citations can be found. Even if citations are available then they would need to be accompanied by fuller explanations than are currently given here. Spitfired (talk) 08:27, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Reply

Misplaced addition to article

Latest comment: 10 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The 1/28/14 addition to the article by Mikem0 is misplaced because it is in a section about passively heated small buildings, but provides examples that are other kinds of systems. (See: [1]). Also, when the Drake Landing system is mentioned, it should be pointed out that the STES store has allowed it to achieve a 97% solar fraction. (See e.g.: [2]). No time to work on the article now, so flagging this for others. Coastwise (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

External links modified

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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External links modified (January 2018)

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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