Talk:Serbian comics

Yugoslavian comics?

Hi! Wouldn't it be better to make an article for comics in Yugoslavia, and Serbian comics could deal with Comics made in the last one or two decades, of course starting with a link to Yu comics. I think it would be less confusing and after all - as far as I know - Serbia was not totally an individiual scene withing Yugoslavia. Zoli79 (talk) 10:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a tricky one and has the potential to step on quite a few toes. How about Yugoslavian comics which would then discuss the history of comics up until the break up of Yugoslavia - you can create sections for Serbian comics, Croatian comics, Bosnian comics and then if they look like they are large enough then they can be their own entries linked in from the appropriate section using {{main}}. These entries could then refer back to "Yugoslavian comics" for the first part of the story and then cover the relevant bits of history and expand on the post-break-up scene. Sound like a plan? (Emperor (talk) 00:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC))

Sounds like a plan. Although I already see those toes... --Zoli79 (talk) 22:51, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh well quite - the problem is if we try and classify things too much I can see various areas that will cause headaches and in the end it might come down to what the creators or publishers think (which might change over time). I'd suggest "Yugoslavian comics" is the broadest name and we can see how it goes from there but it'd be wise to take things slowly and make sure there is a solid consensus first. (02:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emperor (talk • contribs)

"Taking things slow", as a first step should a new page be created for Yugoslavian comics, or should this be renamed? I think the first option would be better, since sooner or later a Serbian comics page will be needed. --Zoli79 (talk) 13:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

create a new page if you want don't rename this one, like in articles about cinema, there is Yugoslavian and serbian, croatian... this is article about Serbian comic including those before and after Yugoslavia Vladar86 (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree on not moving or deleting this article, but separating pre-nineties Serbian comics from Yugoslavian comics in general is pretty hard - and useless - for three main reasons:

• Yugoslavia, with one major common language, behaved as one market in the field of comics. Serbian artists were read by Croatian readers and vice versa.
• Vojvodina had a great role in Yugoslavian comics. You may put that to Serbian comics, since its a part of Serbia, but it represented the multicultural Yugoslavia, with some magazines even printed in many minority languages.
• I'm sure there were many projects with mixed participants.

I think this whole debate is much like the Franco/Belgian comics versus Belgian comics, French comics, except for that in this case we're talking about non existent or stub articles... Zoli79 (talk) 13:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Vojvodina comic??? never heard about that, Vojvodina culture it is part of Serbian culture, it can not be separated from it. It same if you say Budapest comic have great role in European comic Vladar86 (talk) 23:02, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

You grasp into one thought without trying to understand the whole issue. Budapest is a city, not an autonomy, nor a multicultural region. And I did not say that Vojvodina has or had a clearly distinctive comics culture within Yugoslavia. What I did say was that it had a great role in comics. For example Forum/Marketprint in Novi Sad published/publishes many important series (Crtani romani, Stripovani romani, Stripoteka, etc.), some in languages of minorities (Asterix, Lucky Luke, Buksi/Kekec).

Here's an excerpt from [| Zdravko Zupan's The Golden Age of Serbian Comics (1935-1941)] that in my opinion shows that you can't separate past culture by today's borders: "In order to sell better in the western parts of Yugoslavia (today's Croatia and Slovenia), some publications were printed also in Latin alphabet, not only in the Serbian Cyrillic alphabet. In fact, Strip even had several editions translated into Hungarian and in Slovak language, printed and marketed simultaneously with Serbian editions."

And these were the thirties. I assume, that cultural communication became stronger in the few peaceful decades after WWII. Even today, when I visit Novi Sad, in bookstores I see many comics published in Croatia, Slovenia.

And finally, let me write a personal experience: A few years ago in Budapest's Comics Fans Club I hosted a lecture and talk about Yugoslavian comics. My presentation was mainly about the golden age, since that was the period I found substantial English source for. I kept on referring to persons as Serbians, Croatians, etc, and a Serbian comic book artist guest corrected me after a while, that then they were plainly Yugoslavian. This might not be 100% true, but I believe that pointing out and emphasizing today who was Croatian, who was Serbian in those years is pointless and might give way to nationalism. Of course, when talking about today's comics, it is important, since they are different countries. To put things short: I still think Serbian comics should deal with the present (post Balkan crisis years), and comic book history of the period before, should be under Yugoslavian comics. --Zoli79 (talk) 14:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree about yugoslavia part, many serbian authors publish their books in zagreb and vice versa... But you are saying that vojvodina comic (again, never heard of it) are separated entity from serbian comic but serbin comic can not be separated from yugoslavian comic?? Vladar86 (talk) 01:04, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, first of all, I'm happy we're reaching some kind of conclusion here. I never said that Vojvodina should be discussed separately from Serbia (in present), although I brought it up as a point to illustrate how Yugoslavia's multi ethnicity affected its comics culture (in past). --Zoli79 (talk) 08:10, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Returning to this with a couple of years under the bridge - what do we think?

My proposal is:

• Move this to Yugoslavian comics.
• Keep the sections as they are but after the break-up of Yugoslavia we have separate sections for Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, etc. comics (where there is material for such sections of course).
• We redirect Bosnian comics, Croatian comics, etc. to that article.

We can then see how things go. If one section on regional comics looks like it is big enough to create a viable standalone article then we can split it off (which might also include some earlier material focusing on the influence of Serbian, Bosnian, Croatian, etc. comics creators on the earlier periods if there are sources).

Thoughts? (Emperor (talk) 23:47, 3 July 2010 (UTC))

I agree with most of it. Although instead of redirects I would rather create stubs for Serbian, Croatian, etc. comics each, to encourage wikipedians to work on the differences, the individual routes each took/take. Take in consideration that we can't talk about Croatian comics excessively within Yugoslavian comics. I would rather see stubs about these topics than endless fights.

I tried to find the closest situation on WP and I think the pop/rock music scene is almost identical to comics (in this aspect), the concept of these articles seem to fix the basic problem: Serbian_rock, Croatian_popular_music, etc. and SFR_Yugoslav_pop_and_rock_scene Zoli79 (talk) 20:49, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Just thought I'd bump this - we could do with:

• A decision on moving this entry
• More references added
• Translations of this for the relevant language Wikipedias - which could help address the second point, as it might bring in some more references in those languages (see Czech comics, for example).

I have no problem with stubs instead of redirects, however, with no references here I am not confident that the stubs wouldn't just get merged in here - the better route would be to get some references in here, expand the relevant sections and then split them off to their own articles. So references first, then you could look into starting stubs. (Emperor (talk) 16:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC))

Revamping the page

Anybody else interested? I've edited the introduction, added the Golden Age and post-WWII sections. Any help and feedback are welcome. WimbledonGreen (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:05, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello there! Kudos! An excellent work! Thank you very much on behalf of all fans and creators of Serbian and Yugoslav comics. I am interested to contribute (but also lacking time chronically). I have all sources and literature so I can add some things - especially regarding Silver age comics, Belgrade Circle 2, Bauhaus 7, contemporary authors etc. Thanks! --Stripar (talk) 11:59, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Additional sections?

Would any other topic add to the entry? Such as formats, influences, conventions, censorship, etc? Or are those best included in the historical section? WimbledonGreen (talk) 05:40, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

As I said, an excellent work! I would suggest several extended topics or even separate sections: prehistory-protohistory-early history (visual narratives on frescoes, folk cards etc); bibliography (academic type); creative schools and courses; relationship between Serbian and all-Yugoslav comics; Serb comics in the world (divided by language regions: French, English, Italian, Hungarian, Turkish...); foreign comics in Serbia/Yugoslavia; typical genres; festivals; international relevance of Serbian alternative and underground comics, since 1970s; ethnic minorities' comics in Serbia (especially Albanian and Hungarian); academic comics studies... Also, the article is so good now that it would be great to have it in Serbian and other languages. Of course, I will add my contributions. Sincerely. --Stripar (talk) 12:27, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Sounds good. I'll focus on filling in the blanks here. All those red links trigger my OCD. WimbledonGreen (talk) 19:33, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

:) Do what you can, no pressure. I will add some things too, not only in this article. --Stripar (talk) 20:02, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

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