Talk:Seven Pillars of Wisdom

"The" in title

If the title of the book includes the word the then it is part of the title and has to be included, just as if it is part of a newspaper name it is included, eg The Irish Times not Irish Times. In contrast, though people say the Irish Independent, it isn't part of the title, so that goes in as Irish Independent. The is dropped if you are making up a title our you are not quoting a name. Names, like the name of a book, are sacrosanct and have to be used as written. (See The in the title on wiki is often a good indicator that the article is about a book, a film, a newspaper, etc with a specific title. FearÉIREANN 17:00 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yeah. It was pretty sure that it was "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom", so I moved it. Then I actually looked at a copy (making the scan) and realised it is clearly the "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". So I moved it back. You moved it again. And now I've moved it back (perhaps this is why the Wikipedia database is so slow :) CGS 17:08 17 Jul 2003 (UTC).

Opps. I thought it was The . . . also. So we both have learned something on wiki tonight! :-) I thought this was another case of remove THE at all costs approach of some wikians but thankfully not. FearÉIREANN 17:26 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

"The" means that there are only seven. Omission of the definite article leaves open the possibility that there are more than seven pillars and that these are seven of an indefinite number of pillars. But does it matter how many pillars there are in the universe?

Words in picture?

Can anyone translate that? I'm not even sure which language it is (something arabian I would presume). CGS 19:50 17 Jul 2003 (UTC).

ermmm... it looks like english to me: "the sword also ... ... ... death" -- Tarquin 19:56 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps.... but that character in the middle of the penultimate line (a sort of dropped t) doesn't look latin to me. CGS 20:06 17 Jul 2003 (UTC).

It's just sloppy (or "artistic") handwriting in English, that dropped t is "+" as an abbreviation for "and". It seems to be "The sword also means clean-ness + death", which is something T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) wrote in a letter to Eric Kennington, who incorporated it into the crossed-daggers design on the cover of the first public edition of Seven Pillars of Wisdom, 1935, and since the picture is titled "Seven pillars tooling", it's probably a picture of the cover in question. -- Someone else 20:23 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yeah - I scanned it from my 1st edition of Pillars. CGS 21:02 17 Jul 2003 (UTC).

Doesn't look like arabic, or any related alphabet, although I see the similarity. Looks to me like "itu sword also medus dearq-uess death". (Which doesn't make any sense to me...) כסיף Cyp 20:32 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

After edit conflict: Ok, "The sword also means clean-ness + death" seems more likely than what I read... כסיף Cyp 20:32 17 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. CGS 21:00 17 Jul 2003 (UTC).

The third word looks much more like "alas" than "also". --Fritzlein 18:18 20 Jul 2003 (UTC)

No, it is "also". I looked it up. CGS 21:53, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC).

Yep, but the front page still says "alas". Changing it. User:TimBray Nov/04

Compare the "s" in sword on the second line and I think you will notice the similarity to the first word on the third line. It is "also". The "o" also matches. I think the best rendering is as stated above: "The sword also means clean-ness + death" Origen 02:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Content

I know it's an autobiographical book, and therefore most of its content should be covered in T. E. Lawrence, but it seems sad that there isn't more about 'the plot'. There's a long and interesting section on the book's editions and its varying word-counts, but nothing on why it remains in print, why it remains an object of fascination. As I recall, interest in the book resurged during the recent hostilities in Iraq, so Lawrence must have been onto something. Ashley Pomeroy 16:25, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just started reading it. Finishing the Introduction. It is mind-blowing! His style of writing, his analysis, his commentary and his facts. I wonder why I never got round to reading it before. I might add an outline of it.—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 23:30, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Did you finish it? Did your enthusiasm continue unabated? Do you feel up to writing a summary/outline of some description? –Hajor 17:02, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Manuscript

The lead sentence on the second to last paragraph does not make sense as it reads: "The public would have had to remain satisfied with Revolt in the Desert, however, were it not for Lawrence's untimely death in May 1935."

I recommend the following as conveying what I think the author of this paragraph was trying to say: "The public would have to remain satisfied with Revolt in the Desert, however, due to Lawrence's untimely death in May 1935." Origen 02:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

No. As the rest of the paragraph explains, RitD, the abridgement of SPoW, was the only text made publically available during Lawrence's life. Thus the public would not have had access to the full text of SPoW for another few decades. But Lawrence's early death led to its early publication.

> I have an edition of The Seven Pillars of Wisdom. However, it is a copy of the 1926 version printed by Garden City Publishing Co. Inc., New York. This publisher produced two printings (from the info in the book) "Privately Published 1926, First published for general circulation 1935, De Luxe Edition, 1938 (which is this book). I wonder if there is anyone out there who knows about these later editions? - drlarue@drlarue.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.130.157 (talk) 23:10, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Wadi Rum seven pillars

The famous formation in Wadi Rum called the 'seven pillars' of which there are either 6 or 8 depending what you consider a pillar. Was locally considered the site where Lawrence chose the name for the book. Since this theory has lost credit it seems the theory that Lawrence that gave the name to the pillars has stepped in to save the day. I suppose this is true of 'Lawrence's spring', and 'Lawrence house' and Lawrence pretty much everything else in Wadi Rum too? Is there any basis to this statement or is it based on Bedouin tourist marketing, which apparently begins and ends with the highly sell-able - 'Lawrence was here'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.235.10.125 (talk) 14:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Public edition (1927)

Contrary to the impression given here and elsewhere, the public edition was announced at least as early as 1925 and in advance of subscription. From a letter dated 12 April 1925: "... There will be an abridgement in 1927, at a guinea, for public consumption. I suppose all this is agreeable to you? / Subscribers have to put a cheque for ...". Roger (talk) 16:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright and editions

I'm assuming this uncited bit is true:

• The unabridged Oxford Text of 1922 was not made publicly available until its UK copyright expired in 1997.

If it is true, why is there no link to an electronic version of that now public domain edition? Also, is there any place that would still consider the copyright on any edition to still exist? Under the most generous terms of the Berne Convention, all of Lawrence's works would have become public domain in 2005, 70 years after his 1935 death. Is there anything indicating the UK still considers any edition to still be under a term of copyright? And if the UK doesn't why would any other state? IMHO (talk) 02:28, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

The * statement is not correct. Many copyright questions concerning Lawrence can be answered by perusing the various websites maintained by Jeremy Wilson, Lawrence's authorized biographer, and publisher of editions of many of Lawrence's works, including the Oxford text, which, for copyright reasons, was published in the UK but not the US. I've just glanced over these again, but it would take some work to encapsulate the whole story, and there are aspects of UK copyright law that I don't understand, and Wilson does not fully explain. Look here http://telawrence.net/telawrencenet/index.htm , here http://www.castlehillpress.com/ and especially here http://telawrence.net/telawrencenet/tel_copyright.htm and here http://www.castlehillpress.com/docs/seven_pillars_history.shtml. Many of Lawrence's out of copyright works are being posted by Wilson at the former site, including the 1926 subscriber's text (only parts are currently posted). According to Wilson, the 1926 subscriber's text is out of copyright, but the 1922 Oxford text remains in copyright till 2040. MayerG (talk) 07:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Early Text Claim

There is a 1997 claim that an early manuscript has been found - see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/found-lawrence-of-arabias-lost-text-1266823.html 188.164.224.203 (talk) 12:01, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

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