Talk:Sicilian Socialist Party

Established in 1893?

I have serious doubts the party was established in 1893 and removed the relevant tags. I would want to see an independent source to confirm the year of establishment. DonCalo (talk) 16:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Two months later, and there still is no serious answer about my doubts, so I removed historical foundation claims. - DonCalo (talk) 18:00, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
  • I am an historian and what you say is uncorrect. Sicilian socialists founded a separate party and only after an internal debate, they decided to join the PSI some years later. But the Sicilian Socialist Party was a separate organisation and not a section of the PSI when it was born. You have made a big mistake. Read this https://books.google.it/books?id=lEQEeuzttIMC&pg=PA33&dq=%22partito+socialista+siciliano%22+%221893%22&hl=it&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22partito%20socialista%20siciliano%22%20%221893%22&f=false and please revert your edit. VerismoSiciliano (talk) 22:10, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
    • I am sorry, but this is not very convincing (and you did not use this source previously). The text does not use a capital P to indicate it really was a party. According to this source, it is more likely that a Sicilian section of the PSI, or rather its predecessor the Partito dei Lavoratori Italiani, was founded during the Congress on May 21, 1893, in Palermo; not a separate party. In other words something like "and claims to be the re-foundation of the Sicilian section of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI)" would be more appropriate. - DonCalo (talk) 14:21, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

By the way, the source you used is not correct. It says the Fasci were organized by the sicilian socialist party. According to the source and the PSS chronology the Fasci should have been organized after the foundation of the PSS on May 21, 1893, while plenty of Fasci were founded in the years 1891 and 1892. So if the PSS would have organized the Fasci, it should have been founded before May 21, 1893. In other words, your source is not a very reliable source to begin with and cannot be used as proof that the PSS was founded on May 21, 1893. It simply does not add up chronologically. - DonCalo (talk) 15:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

@ SURDUSVII I already made clear that the source you use is incorrect. It only alludes to a partito socialista siciliano in one random sentence, while the source I use spends at least two pages on the proceedings at the May 1893 congress. So, I reformulated your erroneous edit. And please, keep the discussion at this talk page. - DonCalo (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

• I suggest you, DonCalo, to read this, from the famous Treccani Encyclopedia; it says " In seno al partito socialista siciliano si delinearono due posizioni: una in certo qual modo "autonomista", ispirata dal De Felice Giuffrida, che chiedeva per i fasci statuti ed organizzazioni indipendenti dal P.S.I., l'altra di Garibaldi Bosco (dirigente del Fascio di Palermo), che sosteneva la necessità di uno stretto collegamento con il socialismo nazionale. Nei congressi dei fasci e del partito socialista (Palermo, maggio 1893), la posizione del Bosco risultò maggioritaria; prevalse però la mediazione del D. che aveva proposto l'"aggregazione" (e non la fusione) con il P.S.I." So the Treccani says that the Sicilian Socialist Party choosed the aggregation and not the fusion with the P.S.I.: this means that the Sicilian Socialist Party was a distinct and different party when he was born and only after some time he decided to make an aggregation with the Partito dei Lavoratori Italiani (the P.S.I.) So I think that it is necessary to add this source from Treccani and to modify again the voice. VerismoSiciliano (talk) 19:39, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you, but I had already seen that and, once again, it only mentions a socialist party in general terms, not as an entity. According to Scolaro, an attempt was made at the congress to found a Federazione Socialista Siciliana, but that failed to come off the ground in the months that followed. A Sicilian socialist party is also not mentioned in Storia dei partiti politici italiani and this source mentions a "Sicilian federation of the Italian Socialist Party". Moreover, at the time the PSI did not exist, but was known as the Partito dei Lavoratori Italiani (Italian Workers Party), which sheds some doubts on the accuracy of the section in Treccani. In other words, the founding of the PSS in 1893 is far from certain. We could add something like "the PSS considers itself to be the heir of the 1893 Sicilian federation of the emerging Italian Socialist Party, often referred to as the Sicilian Socialist Party". That seems to be more in line with the various sources. I sincerely hope you can agree with this. - DonCalo (talk) 18:25, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
• I have added your proposed way to define the party, even if the Treccani clearly says that the meeting of 1893 did not decide to create a Sicilian federation of the Italian Workers Party (then PSI), but founded an autonomous party which then decided an aggregation (and not a fusion) with the Italian Workers Party. I think that we also have to specify this. VerismoSiciliano (talk) 00:00, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I appreciate your willingness to find a solution. As to your suggestion, we might add a section on the early history of the attempts in 1893 to form a party, using the sources we already identified or adding new ones. - DonCalo (talk) 09:22, 25 October 2015 (UTC)