Talk:Sindhis

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Sindhi Lotus Root.jpg
• Sindhi Seero.jpg

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

"Sindhi Australians" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sindhi Australians and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 17#Sindhi Australians until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:18, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Page renovation needed and expansion of articles

Although Sindhis are quite populated compared to other ethnic notions of this world but i was shocked by the lack of information in this page present.

I noticed that the Pashtun, Punjabi and Muhajir section of histories were expanded and hell even Baloch ones which are significantly less than Sindhis but it saddens me that the Sindhi people's article page is so small compared to them.

I wish that the moderators and frequent article patrollers of this page would renovate and add more information to page. Thank you.
JayJok (talk) 18:59, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Sindhis being Iranic

Hi NameIsShaheer, the article which you added as source does not really call Sindhis as Iranic. There is consensus on Sindhi being Indo Aryan. Kindly provide an academic source before adding such claim.Sutyarashi (talk) 09:47, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

@Sutyarashi The sources say that Sindhis have Baloch Y chromosomes in them. The other ones talk about the Balochi migration to Sindh, and them being absorbed into the community. That proves that Sindhis are Iranic. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 22:41, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

@Muhafiz-e-Pakistan No, this is not how ethnicity works. In past centuries millions of people migrated from Central Asia and Middle East into Punjab region. This does not make Punjabis Iranic, Arab or Turkic (e.g Mughals, Gillanis and Sayyids; they all are part of wider group of people of Punjab).

Also, Indo-Aryan people are classified according to languages, not past ancestry. Sutyarashi (talk) 14:12, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Sutyarashi I'm saying this because most Sindhis are Baloch with them having nearly 40%-70% Baloch ancestry. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 14:19, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 1101 HY 061

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 November 2022 and 17 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ninag001333 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: PGREEN079.

— Assignment last updated by Bobwurst (talk) 18:05, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Tags

@Starkex Please read the edit summaries. I'll be reverting your revert if you don't do it soon — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 12:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I have rechecked you're edits and to be fair I find some objectionable, the CE and Citations issues were rational but those further might be irrational.

I - Let's start with the tags you introduced at the top:

• 1. This article contains wording that promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information. (May 2023)
  How is this topic promoting an subjective point-of-view when the grammar is neutral, kindly mention the specific sections that are considered subjective?
• 2. This article needs additional citations for verification. (May 2023)
  This article had over 125+ citations which is reasonable a high amount of citations as compared to other articles on ethnic groups like Germans, French or Polish people etc.
  

II - Moving on to diaspora section:

• 1. You removed an citation titled: Why are Gujaratis, Marwaris and Sindhis good at making money, I don't see any reason to remove this as it is a verifiable fact that Indian Sindhi community is mercantile-based and is prosperous as compared to other Indian communities.
• 2. Furthermore in diaspora section, there is a subsection for Malacca straits, the citation used here was: Hindus from Sindh who fled India to Hong Kong | South China Morning Post, do you realize that South China Morning Post is a trusted and large news agency?
  In contrast to that there is a second citation titled: Sindhi community has contributed to Singapore, PM Lee's remarks, this was a article from Strait times which is a reputable Singaporean news agency.

III - Culture section:

• 1. Citation removed: Love for Sindhi language brings together Indian and Pakistani expats in Dubai, this is from Gulf News and UAE based news agency and it was reported on the occasion of mother-tongue day

IV - Literature section:

• 1. Citation removed: Pakpedia, this made sense.
• 2. #2 Citation removed: Dayal N. Harjani's book: Sindhi roots and rituals, I don't understand why did you remove that? this book is a very popular book among Sindhis and Sindhologists that study the culture.

Furthermore I believe that you're edits might be on a bias-POV as they were fast and radical.

⭐️ Starkex ⭐️ 📧 ✍️ 15:19, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I Top

1. To start with, "The roots of Sindhi culture go back to the distant past", Festivals section, "It is celebrated with traditional enthusiasm to highlight the centuries-old rich culture of Sindh", "The musical performances of the artists compel the participants to dance", "All political, social and religious organizations of Sindh, besides the Sindh Culture Department and administrations of various schools, colleges and universities", "Sindhi culture, history and heritage are highlighted at the events".
2. By my count, Special:Permalink/1155479563 there are 57 instances where I tagged for citations. Quantity ≠ Quality.

II Diaspora

1. EdTimes is a blog advertises itself as a "youth platform", we do not cite unreliable sources.
2. I'm aware of SCMP. The article [1] does not remotely support the claim made that "an urban rich community of Sindhis can be found in straits of Malacca in both HK ...". Stait Times article is reporting on what PM Lee stated. Both are invalid citations here. (strike-out 02:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC))

III Culture

1. Gulf News article is reporting on an event. Invalid citation here.

IV Literature

2. Dayal N. Harjani is a businessman. Not remotely reliable for Wikipedia. Popularity ≠ Reliability.

This article is an overview of Sindhis and requires high quality sources. Read:

1. WP:SOURCETYPES
2. Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history)
3. Wikipedia:Comment on content, not on the contributor

— DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 18:40, 19 May 2023 (UTC) (amended 02:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC))

• Many Indian articles have this type of puffery you have mentioned, you can see local Indian article, additionally The mentioned grammar doesn't need much modifications except slight minor tweaks that also depends on the dialect of English you are using (eg. American English, British English, Canadian English).

1. I Top: To start with, "The roots of Sindhi culture go back to the distant past", Festivals section, "It is celebrated with traditional enthusiasm to highlight the centuries-old rich culture of Sindh", "The musical performances of the artists compel the participants to dance", "All political, social and religious organizations of Sindh, besides the Sindh Culture Department and administrations of various schools, colleges and universities", "Sindhi culture, history and heritage are highlighted at the events".

• The citations were of high quality except some 2-4 which doesn't change the fact that you were reverting excessive information and which can count as violation of WP:NPOV.

1. II Diaspora: By my count, Special:Permalink/1155479563 there are 57 instances where I tagged for citations. Quantity ≠ Quality.'

• Regardless of it is an event or what, you're claims here are baseless, many citations like these are used as references in various Wikipages.

1. III Culture: Gulf News article is reporting on an event. Invalid citation here.

• Does one being a Businessman affect his/her intelligence to report on events or historical claims? Also him being businessman further solidifies his references as Sindhi Hindus are known for being Mercantile-based population, kindly check Vendor and e-commerce sources section of WP:RS.

1. IV Literature: Dayal N. Harjani is a businessman. Not remotely reliable for Wikipedia. Popularity ≠ Reliability.

Thanks. ⭐️ Starkex ⭐️ 📧 ✍️ 09:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I see that you still are exhibiting troubles when identifying what constitutes a reliable source in the context of the respective content. This is a contentious topic. Please read Wikipedia:Contentious topics. I'm going to discount your arguments. If you further dispute it, please visit Wikipedia:Dispute resolution and perhaps ask for outside help — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 10:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@DaxServer "I'm going to discount your arguments." You refuse to even properly return to his new response. The bias seems obvious here. Kindly, give a thought to what @Starkex said, Dax. It would be appreciated. Sir Calculus (talk) 17:51, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

• If there's puffery in other articles, please go fix them.
• Citations are not of high-quality. The one's I removed, a lot of them are trashy or inappropriate for the content and context.
• The citations do not support the content.
• Once again, Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history). Links to vendor/e-commerce sites are used to verify basic facts as described in that section. Not to back claims that require high-quality scholarly sources. I believe I wasn't clear in my writing earlier and thus lead to interpreting what I meant. Dayal N. Harjani is not a scholar. I find it very hard to use his work in Wikipedia. Perhaps, this could also be clarified at WP:RSN if you like.

I'd suggest working on articles that are less contentious before moving on to contentious ones, as that could help gaining better understanding of WP policies and guidelines. I hope your concerns [of me refusing to answer] are alleviated? If more clarification is required from me, let me know. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 18:17, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Starkex @Sir Calculus I've stricken-off my arguments about SCMP and The Strait Times. "Urban rich" still stands unverified. I'd still recommend citing good scholarship for these two locations — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 02:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@DaxServer Thank you for bringing up your updated perspective. I appreciate your willingness to reconsider your arguments. Let's continue seeking reliable sources. Thank you for the valuable input! :) Sir Calculus (talk) 14:48, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding ;) — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 16:33, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

One tip to gather sources: I searched "Sindhis festivals" in Google Scholar and found Sindhi Hindus which talks about Tijri but I don't have access to it. Another source I found is Investigating Interfaith Harmony and Religious Tolerance through Text Messages: A Case Study of Sindhi Hindus and Sindhi Muslims in Sindh, Pakistan. Those articles have references which provide more sources. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 12:13, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Starkex If there are no further rebuttals, in a couple of days I'll revert back to the version with the maintenance tags. Additionally, I'll move the "promotes subjective manner" banner to Festivals section as that's the more problematic part — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 17:44, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you help me understand why you removed the images too? Sir Calculus (talk) 20:13, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

The notable people list is, as it is named, a list. This article is an overview of Sindhis. Have pictures of these people is not relevant to this article as they do not add any value to the article. See MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 18:19, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@DaxServer I just read it and I get your point. In defense: The images were likely not added with negative intentions, they were probably simply added to make the list more interactive.

Though, in the end, I understand your point & well, agree on it. Sir Calculus (talk) 14:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I assume the same that they were added with good intentions. It's just that we don't go that extra mile in this scenario so that the article remains focused — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 16:36, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

User DaxServer, to be fair I have to agree with User Starkex here. Your edits went too far after the CE and Citations taggings. Sir Calculus (talk) 15:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2023

Change nankpanthi to nothing 49.36.41.51 (talk) 22:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: No reason given Lightoil (talk) 03:10, 11 July 2023 (UTC)